Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

The next six minutes are yours, Mr. Desilets. Go ahead.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Hughes, the last time you were here, my assistant told me that my tone may have been a bit aggressive, so I want to start by apologizing.

[Carolyn Hughes]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but the translation's not working.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mrs. Hughes, you have to select not the floor audio or translation, but English on your computer, and you will be able to.... Let's do a test.

Please start over, Mr. Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

It was hard to say what I said, Mr. Chair. I can't start over.

I'm kidding, of course, Ms. Hughes. I wanted to apologize because the last time you were before the committee, my assistant told me that I may not have taken the nicest tone and that I may have been somewhat aggressive in my attempts to get answers.

[Carolyn Hughes]

It's no problem. I didn't find it aggressive.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I appreciate your response. Thank you.

Other than your appearance today, were you consulted on a national strategy for veterans employment after service? Did the department ask you for your opinion?

[Carolyn Hughes]

They did. I spoke with, I believe, Matthew Mann. He works at Veterans Affairs, and we had a consultation last year, just a conversation, and then I attended a stakeholder engagement on the subject of veteran hiring.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I'm glad to hear it.

What's your impression or perception of the strategy the department wants to put in place? What might it look like? What would you like to say on the subject?

[Carolyn Hughes]

I'm not sure, actually. I haven't seen the strategy in its totality yet. It was still being worked on the last time I saw anything on it. I think the important thing is communication and getting it out there and, if there are problems with it, making sure we're finding out about them and correcting them.

I haven't actually seen the strategy, so I can't speak to the final product.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

All right.

When you say communication is the important thing, does that mean that there isn't any communication now?

[Carolyn Hughes]

There is some communication, but I think more information can always be beneficial to veterans. Sometimes you have to say things in different manners, because not everybody is computer savvy and wants to hear things through the My VAC account or emails. Some people need to hear things in person from case managers. I think the more ways we can get the word out to veterans, the better.

When we hear about the benefits of programs, we will also put that out there in our social media and on our website. For example, the mental health benefit that came out not too long ago was a great initiative by Veterans Affairs, and I'm still finding veterans who do not know about it. They're still asking who's going to pay for their treatment while they're waiting for a decision.

There needs to be constant communication. There's never enough. That's all I can say.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I quite agree.

Clearly, some of the biases out there can prevent employers from hiring veterans. Would you say the main or only way to overcome that is to provide employers with information and raise awareness among veterans, or do you think other measures are needed?

[Carolyn Hughes]

There definitely needs to be awareness raised among them, and perhaps some trials. I don't have the answer for that, because it's such a vast area out there that you're talking about in terms of employers. It could be a small company. It could be a large company. It could be an individual owner hiring a veteran, so it's really hard to say how to get over that prejudice, but I think the third party contract should be able to help with that, if what they're saying they're responsible for is going to happen.

For example, I know they're doing outreach to a lot of different companies and seeing about hiring veterans, so I'm hoping they're also educating them at the same time. I know departments like Veterans Affairs and National Defence are well aware of veterans—they've hired them for many years—and know what they've done in their service. I'm hoping all government departments can be educated about that, because there are some jobs out there that are transferable between departments. It's not just Veterans Affairs or DND that can hire veterans. I think it needs to be widespread.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You talked about hiring veterans. In the past few days, the committee learned that the Department of Veterans Affairs' workforce included very few veterans. Is that the sense you have as well?

[Carolyn Hughes]

I've read the article. About the news article, I can't speak to the details as to whether they're accurate, honestly.

Could they do better? Of course—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Whether they're accurate or not, how do you explain that the department has hired so few veterans?

A veteran would always prefer to deal with someone who knows a bit about what they've been through. Obviously, Veterans Affairs Canada would do well to have a whole lot more veterans working there as agents. That would help and support veterans.

[Carolyn Hughes]

Yes, I'd like more research done into that and why they haven't been hired. It could be a combination of things.

I'm not defending the department, but are there location problems? We know that a lot of jobs are in Charlottetown and Ottawa. Are there are other locations where there just maybe are not Veterans Affairs departments, and veterans cannot get jobs there? So—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Hughes.

Ms. Rachel Blaney, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair.

I thank you for your testimony. I appreciate that you're all on your own in dealing with all of us today. Hopefully, you have some water there to help you through this.

I have a couple of questions.

We've seen from the research that there are different groups of veterans who are struggling, particularly in terms of employment. The top three that I have in mind are those who are medically released, women veterans and veterans who have served for a short period of time. Those seem to be particularly vulnerable groups.

There have been some recommendations through this process that the government and VAC are still going through. They did “Let's Talk Veterans”, and they're on the second stage and taking in that information. I'm wondering if you feel there should be a specific outreach and targeted approach to talking to these veterans who seem to have slower outcomes, struggle financially a lot more and are not getting to the next step that we would like to see veterans get to.

With your many years of expertise and knowledge, I'm wondering if you think there should be a more targeted approach to making sure those voices are heard, and whether whatever system is put in place by VAC really includes strategies that will enhance their opportunities.

[Carolyn Hughes]

Regarding the medically released, if the priority hiring actually worked the way it should, more veterans who are medically released would be hired. As to women, I can't speak to why there's a lower number of them, but I am attending the women veterans forum on February 16, and I will raise that topic there to see if maybe there's something in that organization that we can look at from that angle too.

The veterans with a short period of service are always the most difficult to help. When there's a severe injury, it's easy, because it's easy to see. They get the help through Veterans Affairs, and they're entitled to different benefits, but when veterans leave the forces after three or maybe six years, maybe they too have an injury. Maybe they have a mental health injury, and they just never identified it before they left the military. That happens quite often.

It's harder for them, I think, to get back into the system to get help, because they've been away from the military. They're not dealing with VAC, so they're kind of outside.... That's where we try to catch them also, just to make sure our services are aware of them and our services are out there, because we can be the conduit to get them into Veterans Affairs and to OSISS and other benefits. They are always a challenge.

What comes to mind for me, too, are the reserve forces. There were many of them who went to Afghanistan. They came back and basically went back to their civilian jobs and were kind of forgotten about. Those are the ones who are really hard to get to in terms of outreach.

I can tell you some sad stories. I remember a young veteran who had been to Afghanistan three times as a reservist, and who came home and got into trouble with the law and with alcohol. That's how he came across my desk. Somebody knew of me and said to him, “You need to go and see her and get the help you need.” It was sad. At that time, that young soldier was younger than my kids. It broke my heart. There are still some of those who are being lost. Not only are they not getting back to work or getting gainful employment, but some of them are not getting the treatment they need.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that.

We've also heard some testimony that when veterans and their loved ones go to get services and supports, even to service providers, they're not being provided the resources and services that VAC has. We heard testimony earlier today that there were services that VAC was overseeing in terms of connecting veterans with employment, but none of the case managers had informed the people who were working with veterans to provide support. That was concerning to me.

I'm just wondering, in terms of going through this process, whether you feel that it would be effective if that were a little more streamlined and, I would say, just based on my work with veterans, repetitive, so that they would hear it multiple times? Depending on the day and the level of trauma or the concern, they might not be able to absorb that information, but if they hear about it regularly, just so they can consider it, that might assist them in accessing those programs later on.

I would just love to hear your thoughts on that.

[Carolyn Hughes]

Yes, absolutely. The more repetition and methods of delivery, the better. Often, when I sit and talk to a veteran, I try to explain the different benefits they may be eligible for and the disabilities they might want to apply for. A lot of people still don't know the conditions for which they may be eligible to apply for benefits.

After I sit with them and talk to them about these different things, I send them an email saying, “These are the things we talked about. When you're ready to discuss them in more detail, give me a call.” Often there's too much information all at once, but if they have it in writing, they can look at it at a later time, when they are in a better frame of mind or when they are with their spouse or another family member who could help them go over the details. I often include attachments.

It's a lot of information, but it's a resource for them to use as I help them through different things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Now we go to MP Blake Richards for five minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

I'm going to start by apologizing to you, Ms. Hughes. We get only certain opportunities to speak in committee, and I have a motion I need to move related to something, so I apologize to you that I'm going to have to do that in the spot in which we would have had a chance to chat. You and I have had a chance to chat about this briefly before, so I hope you'll forgive me for that.

I hope we can pass the motion quickly, and then we'll be able to come back to you and have a few more opportunities to chat with you. I hope that will happen.