Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 13th, 2023

[Oliver Thorne]

Certainly. I think that's, shall we say, a hiring drive or an effort by Veterans Affairs to hire more veterans. I think that would be a very positive thing.

I would be cautious about an exact target that has to be hit. Trying to get human beings to fit into neat boxes of numbers is sometimes a difficult thing, and it's not always productive.

I very much think that having Veterans Affairs work toward developing policies to be a more attractive employer for veterans and to bring them in would be a very positive thing for the department and for veterans.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

If you could give me a very brief answer, Mr. Thivierge, I would then have another question for you.

[André Thivierge]

I agree with Mr. Thorne's recommendation. We have policies for visible minorities and policies for persons with a disability. Why would we not have a policy for veterans?

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That answers my question perfectly.

Mr. Thivierge, you are proposing to create tax incentives for small and medium enterprises. Are some countries doing that now? Is that idea catching on? Is the department aware of this?

[André Thivierge]

No, the department is not aware of this. Essentially, the idea of an incentive would be worth studying.

What would be interesting would be to examine the hiring incentive initiatives adopted by our neighbours to the south, the United States. I am not familiar with the details, but I think it would be worth looking into the research being done on those initiatives.

On the other hand, since a large majority of employers are small and medium enterprises, it would be a good idea to study the incentives we could have, such as provincial or federal tax credits, or certain incentives from municipalities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Thivierge.

It is now Rachel Blaney's turn.

You have two and a half minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm going to come back to you, Mr. Thivierge. I have a couple of questions.

We've seen from the research that the veterans who are falling behind after service, in terms of employment, are newer veterans who did not serve long, women veterans and medically released veterans. It is shameful that we don't have a good strategy to support these particular groups in order that they may have the best experience after their service.

Do you have any thoughts on that? What actions might we recommend to VAC to address these issues more fully?

[André Thivierge]

Many of the members who are released early in their career....Sometimes it is for reasons that are other than voluntary, for example, medical reasons. What is important to understand is that those who are released for medical reasons have also to deal with their health barriers. Particularly, if they are released for mental health reasons, they also have to deal with the stigma associated with that.

If we refer to the Maslow chain, before getting employment, they need to deal with their health problems. Some members retire for non-medical reasons. Some of them haven't built up experience to give them much credibility, so sometimes they require more preparation. When you serve for just a couple of years in the Canadian Armed Forces, you don't have time to upgrade academically. Sometimes, you don't think, “Well, I will get out of the forces.” When it is a non-voluntary release, you are often unprepared for that, which makes you more vulnerable.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I saw you nodding to Mr. Thorne's response on how it would be so amazing to have veterans providing services at VAC. Do you have any insight on why that pathway doesn't seem to be as clear, so that we have more veterans doing that important work?

[André Thivierge]

We need to better understand the perceptions of the members with regard to VAC. We have to go into that. I hope that research will tackle that, because it is a very important issue. Sometimes, those perceptions can hurt the credibility of VAC. However, I agree that more experienced military members should be part of VAC.

I found amazing case managers, but the thing is, veterans wonder—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you. I'm sorry, Mr. Thivierge.

[André Thivierge]

May I continue, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

A few words, go ahead.

[André Thivierge]

A veteran wants to talk only to a veteran who has experienced the same issues.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You're welcome, Mr. Thivierge.

Terry Dowdall, you have only two minutes for your questions. Please go ahead.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I was quite interested in your beginning testimony, Mr. Thivierge, when you said there was a lack of ability to source veterans. We can help only the people we can find. What could we do to improve on that? How do we source more veterans?

[André Thivierge]

I'm sorry. I'm not sure I exactly understood your question, sir.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

In your opening testimony, you said there's a lack of ability to source veterans. How do we improve the ability to source veterans?

[André Thivierge]

By “source” veterans, you mean attract veterans. Well, when we look at career fairs, they can be a very effective way. We can also create opportunities for employers to meet directly with veterans. It's also about how we can educate each other. Certainly, we can educate each other. Those discussions take place now in the CAF transition units. The CAF transition units are the perfect forums for exchange and communication among the employers. It's also a more personable approach.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Okay. I have just one other thought. I was on national defence before, and when we talked with these individuals who would come out, they were used to working with other people and were really goal-oriented in how they wanted jobs. Is there any thought or push to having two types of forces that help out locally or here in Canada, whether it's with flooding or things of that nature, and that are utilized in that light?

[André Thivierge]

I'm sorry. I'm not sure I understood your question.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Just as an example, with seniors homes or whatever, they got the military to step in. It leaves us short in other places in the world. I didn't know if there was a thought process with the government on having an emergency task force, or if that's something you would think of for these individuals who are used to working. They're goal-oriented.

[André Thivierge]

I haven't heard any of that. I've never heard any of that. Certainly, it's something that....

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Dowdall.

Now let's go to Mr. Churence Rogers for two minutes, please.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Chair, and welcome to our guests.

Given the very restricted time, I'll start with Veteran Staffing Canada and Mr. Wahl.

First, what are the biggest stigmas that you find veterans face when they're applying for jobs? How can we better tackle these to help veterans avoid discrimination?