Veterans Affairs Committee on May 1st, 2023

[Col Helen Wright]

It's sort of a complicated question, I think.

With respect to treating members when they are still serving, we absolutely treat them in a comprehensive way. That would mean looking at all of their issues at the same time. That's sort of the cornerstone of primary care, that we look at people as individuals and all of their challenges together. That would absolutely include looking after someone's mental health requirement, physical health requirements and their family planning situation and goals.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Does that mean that if a woman is receiving treatment for PTSD while still serving, if she receives medication that could have an impact on her ability to have healthy reproduction later on, is she informed of that?

Again, I always think about intention and impact, and those sometimes are related but they don't flow the right way. I've heard from so many women who have not been able to have children. They planned for children and they waited. They had post-traumatic stress while they were serving. They were given medication. Now they're in the veteran component of their lives and they had no idea it would have this impact on their bodies, so they're having to deal with that.

I'm sorry, I feel like I'm really pestering, but I'm trying to figure out where it is broken so that we can have recommendations in this report that help so that this doesn't happen to women anymore.

[Col Helen Wright]

I am very sorry to hear that you are hearing these kinds of stories, but someone in a complex situation such as what you're describing would probably be seeing a specialist provider from the civilian system with respect to medications they're taking while they are trying to get pregnant, and absolutely that's the sort of thing that should be discussed with a patient. Absolutely that is what should happen.

I do respect that you're hearing stories that tell you it's not always happening.

I would add that, yes, part of our goal to understand the challenges with respect to what's happening with our women members is to understand better these combinations of challenges and how best to assist them.

With something specific like a contraindication for a medication for someone who is trying to get pregnant, it really shocks me that people are telling you that they were treated with a medication that they didn't understand. That's very disappointing to hear.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Now we'll go back to Mr. Blake Richards for five minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thanks.

Colonel Noonan, you mentioned long-term disability in response to a previous question from one of my colleagues. I think it was near the end, and you didn't get a chance to explain it fully.

If I understood you right, you said that before someone is medically released, they would have the ability to potentially be on long-term disability for, I think it was, up to six months, and then you said possibly up to two years after release. Did I understand that correctly? Could you just explain that to me a little bit more ?

[Col Lisa Noonan]

The CAF, through their insurance provider, is the first provider of that vocational rehab. Let's say it's an educational program they're doing. They would start at six months before release, continue—let's say it's a degree they're trying to get—for up to two years after that, and then VAC could, at that point, assume the rest of the vocational rehab program.

There is a hand-off that occurs, and we're working very closely with them to make sure nobody falls through the cracks as we continue to analyze benefits.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

A couple of questions come to mind with regard to that.

One of them is in regard to that coordination, and I want to come back to that in a second, because I first want to ask whether that long-term disability is the same whether the medical condition or the injury is service-related or not service-related. Is the long-term disability payment the same? Is everything about that the same in either instance?

[Col Lisa Noonan]

I'm not an expert in the actual payments, but there will be a distinction depending on what the member's condition is. It's another part of the CAF that handles that particular benefit.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

That brings to mind another question. If you feel someone is better qualified to answer this one, it's fine if you pass it off.

Earlier Captain Beck was indicating that the CAF doesn't make a determination about whether it's service-related or not service-related, but in this instance we're talking about potentially different long-term disability payments depending on whether or not it's service-related. That tells me there must be something done at CAF to indicate whether or not the injury is service-related.

Can someone square that circle for me? I don't really understand. It sounds to me as though that is being done.

It also sounds to me as though there is some coordination that then happens with VAC, so why, at that time, can there not be a determination as to whether the injury is service-related and then that can be applied to everything, whether it be long-term disability or the hand-off to VAC, so that things can be better coordinated?

Why can't that be happening? It sounds to me as though somewhere along the way, before they're released, a determination is made one way or the other as to whether it is service-related. What's the problem here?

[Col Lisa Noonan]

On the CAF side, Manulife, because it's an insurance company, does the kind of eligibility piece. They will make the determination as to whether it's service-attributable—that's what they call it, SA—or non-service-attributable.

The criteria VAC uses for its benefits are different from those that Manulife uses from an insurance perspective.

It has to do with the way it's structured in each organization, so there will be different criteria for—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Perhaps I can just interrupt you. You saw my frustration earlier, and I apologize to Captain Beck if it sounded as though it was directed at him specifically, because it wasn't. It's a frustration with the system.

We have all these different people, and everyone's assessing things differently.

Here's what it boils down to. What has to be done or what needs to change so that the veteran...? They just want to be able to have this dealt with in a way that's easy for them to understand. What I'm hearing is “CAF does this. Manulife does this. VAC does that.” You can imagine how frustrating that gets to be for the veteran.

What has to be done so that doesn't happen, so that there is one determination made and you all figure out how to coordinate that? What would need to be done, and why can't we do it?

[Col Lisa Noonan]

Some of it's already under way. There's an LTD modernization with eight different lines of effort that the CAF is currently engaged in right now. There's a lot of additional funding. Really, the VAC benefits are even more generous, to be honest with you, than the CAF LTD ones. There's an alignment occurring along these eight different lines of effort in order to ensure that those gaps don't exist, or exist as little as possible, and there is that seamless hand-off.

So it's a great point, but it is in progress.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Work is being done. Okay.

Can you give us some kind of a timeline? When can we expect that veterans would be able to see that become seamless so that they can understand, for instance, this is going to be the determination and this is how it's going to follow through, from the point that it's determined that I need to be medically released, all the way through everything I do with VAC? What would the timeline be?

[Col Lisa Noonan]

On the timeline, they are going to Treasury Board for the additional funding and alignment I believe this fall, in 2023, so I would think that by 2024 you would start to see all of that kick in with regard to extra benefits.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

That's great. I certainly hope it all comes through and comes to fruition and works the way we hope it will, because that will be a huge thing for veterans if it does.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

I invite Mr. Darrell Samson to go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank all three witnesses for their presentations and for their service to Canada, which is extremely important.

I would like to take this back to women veterans. We kind of got lost on the transition piece. That's extremely crucial, but there's a day for that discussion. I want to bring us back to women and women's transition.

Those who were here before you in the last two or three weeks said that they've lost their identity, and that they're also lost because nobody's recognizing them. Nobody's mentioning in announcements or monuments or anything the participation and contribution of women in the military. That stuck with me.

Colonel Noonan, you mentioned that you're leading the transition teams, I think 27 of them, that we're building toward. Can you share with the committee the women's angle in this transition group that will focus or take into consideration or continue to build on the needs of women?

[Col Lisa Noonan]

I agree that women need to see themselves represented. We're establishing a digital transition centre, DTC, through the canada.ca transition site. There's a portal that goes to the DTC. We will have there the ability for individuals to access anything transition-wise. We will have pictures there of both men and women in uniform with their families. As well, they will be able to click on services. Some of them are specific to female veterans and some are generally available to all transitioning members of the CAF. As well, there will be a link into the VAC benefits and all of the different things that VAC offers.

We have that front-facing piece in terms of the pictures of women and the programs specifically with headings on the DTC. In the transition centre we have posters and different kinds of representation that include female veterans. On the transition site, the canada.ca one, there are women in uniform on that site as well.

Hopefully, the invisible factor is diminished or eliminated as we continue to go along and have not only the programs and services that are geared to both men and women and other diverse groups as well that serve in the CAF but also the pictorial. Pictures do speak a thousand words in terms of people being represented or feeling like they are being represented as they work their way through these different tools and resources.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

Another criticism they mentioned was that when we're analyzing data, they are grouped in with the rest of the veterans or the military or active members. They're never separated so that we can analyze them.

A few meetings ago, I also heard that often we can't do any data on them because the numbers aren't sufficient. Statistics Canada or whoever is drawing that information is not able to come to any conclusive decisions because of the lack of information. I strongly believe we should do each and every one, and not look at the significance of.... You need to have a certain number. If we're really focused on their needs, then we really have to dig deeper.

Do you have any comments on that?

[Col Lisa Noonan]

I can't comment on whatever research that was, but in terms of our research in CAF TG that we're doing with VAC, our research unit and sometimes health services as well, we are definitely looking at the demographic issues. There are questions even specifically on our transition support and well-being survey that are targeted to women in terms of the kinds of issues while making the release but also the kinds of experiences they're having. We will have that data analyzed by each demographic group, including female veterans.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

We've also heard about efforts being made by CAF to recruit more women in the military, but many of the women who presented were asking what we are doing to retain them. I heard things like one who mentioned that she was going to wait to get pregnant until after she finished. Well, “after you finish” means you're going to have a short career in the military. What are we doing to retain more women in the military?

[Col Lisa Noonan]

That's a very big question. From a CAF TG perspective, I can give you my input on that. We're looking, whenever possible, to make sure that, if someone comes—let's say it's a female veteran who wants to voluntary release, and it's very early on in her career—that we would really sit down and make sure it's not a knee-jerk reaction, find out what the triggers are that are making her want to release early and see if there's some kind of mitigating action that we can take to help prevent that release.

We have something that became mandatory about a year ago that was introduced by another part of CMP, the unit retention interview. We make sure that the interview has been conducted by their chain of command. If it hasn't, then we refer them back to get it done, and sometimes the chain of command can talk to them about things. If it's something they don't want to talk to the chain of command about, the good thing about the transition centre with the transition advisers is that they can explore those issues and reasons with them and hopefully take some mitigating action to prevent that release.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Noonan.

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

We have two more interventions. We will begin with Cathay Wagantall, followed by Churence Rogers.

Ms. Wagantall, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

In regard to the transition centres, I'm just curious. There are 27, and 13 are in place—18 by this summer—and they're regional. It sounds like they're on bases. Is that the plan?

[Col Lisa Noonan]

Yes, they're located on our primary bases and wings as well.