Evidence of meeting #67 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Veteran, As an Individual
I'm still living it. In 2023, I saw men appeal decisions to VRAB in Charlottetown. Last month, I even met with VRAB representatives in Charlottetown. I asked them why my file had been dragging on for nearly three years.
It seems that the system makes women seem of lesser importance because they haven't suffered as much as men in their service. That's the mindset.
There are now a lot of ex-servicemen in Charlottetown and in leadership at Veterans Affairs Canada. When we bring up certain issues, we're told that it was up to us not to be there. Some are more sensitive than others to our problems, but the majority feel that way, and there are more and more of them.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
One of the potential solutions you are proposing is that the department hire women to support women.
Veteran, As an Individual
Yes, absolutely.
Having said that,there's so much more to it than that. We're talking about Veterans Affairs Canada, but we should also be talking about the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces transition system. When a person has to leave the military for medical reasons, their file is shelved for three years.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you for your intervention, Ms. Laverdure.
Thank you, Mr. Desilets.
I'll now turn the microphone to Ms. Rachel Blaney for six minutes, please.
The floor is yours.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I want to thank our witnesses today for their incredible bravery and for their service.
I think it is important to recognize that when you're part of the first cohort walking into anything, it is incredibly brave to do that work, and it's very clear that nobody really prepared for it. There was no sort of orientation, saying, “This is going to be hard,” and there was no accountability put on the people who were receiving to make sure that the pathway was as safe as possible, so thank you for being here to help us try to make the path safer for other veterans who are women and for other serving women members in the future.
What I heard from all three of your testimonies.... I'm going to ask one question. I'll start with you, Nicole, and then move on to the other folks online about this.
What I heard in all of your testimony is that because of the fact that you were often silenced and there was a lack of confidence that if you came and told someone, that reality would be reflected back to you in a positive way, and because you were in an environment where it was very much “just get through it”, even though you were doing things that anybody of your physical stature would struggle with.... It was all very normal, but it was treated like it was some sort of bad thing. With the sexual assaults that we heard about from some of our witnesses today, it was just like this abuse that was happening, in that you were not able to share it.
I know that when you get over to the VAC side, if you have things not documented, it's very hard to get the supports that you need. I'm just wondering if you could tell us about that challenge and how you were made to be silent—forced to be silent. When you then got to the VAC side, how did you have to try to get them to understand, so that you could get what you needed to heal?
Veteran, As an Individual
I'm still fighting for that, because they want proof of my injury. Even then, when I had that back injury, I had to have an advocate fight for me and go digging, because VAC wasn't willing to give anything up.
We have to ask, but there are things I don't even know, and how am I supposed to ask if I don't know things and ask the right questions? I'm just finally getting...my husband's helping me out, and there's a form, but he's not my nurse; he's my caregiver.
I'm finally getting help with that. I have the appropriate care manager from VAC now, because now I'm going through a life-altering moment. It's a long moment.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you so much.
If I could, I'll come to you, Dr. Aiken.
Veteran, Vice-President Research and Innovation, Dalhousie University, As an Individual
No problem.
I'd agree. When I was released in 1998.... I don't know if Nicole had the same experience, but at the base in Kingston, somebody actually sat down with me, went through my medical file and said, “Okay, you had these injuries. We're going to put in a claim to Veterans Affairs. We're going to help you with it.” I know that in 2007, when my husband was released, they didn't do that anymore. They put in a claim, and I thought, “Oh, that is great service,” but it took years of going through Veterans Affairs, and people were questioning me.
Keep in mind that at this time, I was a health professional, and they were questioning me, asking just ridiculous questions about anatomy and things they didn't even understand. I had to sit in front of a tribunal and justify how I had hurt myself. Well, I fell and I hurt myself. Why did I have to justify that? I filled out a CF 98. I did all of the right things. It was an absolute nightmare, and we went through the same nightmare trying to get my husband's claim.
I'm not sure it was any different for men or women, though he had served longer and was army. I was navy, so that was also a different thing.
I have to say the whole process was terrible at the time. Now, should you wish to add anything else to your claim—because we know most veterans don't come forward with claims until 15 years after they've released—they stop your entire file until it's adjudicated, which makes zero sense.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you.
If I can come to you, Ms. Laverdure, your story, in particular, was around having that terrible, violent throw of 75 feet, if I have that correctly.
I'm wondering if that was recorded appropriately, so that you could actually claim when you got to VAC?
Veteran, As an Individual
Again, this was one of my fights, because the accident happened in 1988 at Bagotville. Following the accident, I had a surgery done at Valcartier in Quebec, the military base, so everything was documented in my files.
When I put in a claim at VAC for the deconditioning of my left knee, they refused, but I had the surgery in the military. Then I had to look for my warrant officer at that time, who had picked me up off the tarmac, and ask him to write a letter to testify how I was injured there. Then they accepted, but it took five years.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Ms. Blaney. That's really good; it's exactly six minutes. I know that you have your own chrono with you, and I think it's a good idea to have that with us.
Now we're going to start a second round of questions. I'll start with Mr. Richards for five minutes, please.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
Thanks, Mr. Chair. First of all, I want to thank each of you, not only for your service to our country but also for your courage in being here today to share your stories. I know that it can't be easy, and we all certainly appreciate and recognize that. We really appreciate your being here to do that, despite how difficult I know it can be.
Nicole, I'd like to ask you first. I'm going to go to a completely different topic here. My understanding is that you work with Quilts of Valour.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
You did. Let me ask you about it. It sounds like there may be a bit of story there—I don't know.
One of the things that often strike me is that many times, when a veteran leaves the service, one of the things that are important is to still have that sense of fulfillment in serving, to still have that in your life. Many veterans choose to do that by serving other veterans. My understanding of that organization is that that's obviously what it's about: trying to provide comfort for veterans.
I wonder if you could share with us that experience. Was that what that was about for you? Is that something that you find important, and is there something that Veterans Affairs can be doing to encourage more of that service to fellow veterans amongst veterans?
Veteran, As an Individual
That's a very great end result: presenting a quilt to a fellow veteran. That was my calling at that time, and I presented many of them, especially during COVID times. It was emotional, but presenting them with a quilt of valour and then hearing them...and then being on the same veteran to veteran.... When I received mine, as well.... It's emotional, and it's more acceptable when you're a fellow veteran rather than a non-veteran. When they're presented by a non-veteran—a civilian—to a veteran, then they don't open as much.... A lot of veterans don't want the attention. That's what I didn't want; I didn't want the attention. I wanted it very low-key: Present it to me, and we'll have a root beer and go from there.
It meant a lot, but I saw other avenues that I needed to go down.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
I can appreciate that. I guess it's that aspect of serving a veteran that I was wanting to probe a little further.
Can you tell me...? It sounds like that's an important thing for you. I know it is for many veterans I've spoken to. It's an important aspect of post-military service.
Are there any suggestions you might have on that in terms of something that Veterans Affairs could do to encourage more of that, to enable more of that, to make it easier for veterans to serve their fellow veterans?
If you don't have anything, it's fine, but if you do, I'd love to hear it.
Veteran, As an Individual
Support groups would be nice to have. I belong to one. Even with the legion, if you go with other.... It's important, as well, to have support with them. I can probably answer it further on, down the line, on paper.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
That would be great. If you do have suggestions that come to mind even later on, please send them to our committee. I think you would have had correspondence with the clerk.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
You can send it through the clerk. That's no problem.
Let me ask you something on another topic altogether. You served in the combat arms. It's often a male-dominated area of the military, obviously. Do you think there ought to be more special attention paid to women veterans who are serving in the more male-dominated areas? What would be your specific suggestion there, if you have one? Again, if you don't have anything to suggest right now, we can take it later.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
I'm sorry. I think it's difficult because I'm trying to look at you, and the microphone's pointing the other way.