Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 7th, 2023

[Nadine Huggins]

I'll answer your question, Mr. Desilets.

Yes, we see more musculoskeletal problems among women. I believe my colleague Ms. Rigon has some information that she can give you today, but, if you want more information on problems affecting women, we can send that to you.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I would be very grateful if you could send the committee all the information you have.

That's one of the problems that women have, particularly in the Canadian Armed Forces, because the equipment isn't designed for them. That's why I'm surprised to hear that the RCMP's equipment doesn't cause breast-related problems among women. It may be a matter of sampling, but so much the better if it's really not a problem.

Ms. Huggins, what is maternity leave like for women in the RCMP?

[Nadine Huggins]

It's the same maternity leave as is offered to public service employees, which is one year of leave that can be extended to up to five years.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That's fantastic.

Do you notice any differences after birth? Have any studies been done on that?

We've seen that the children of female military members experience problems. Have you observed any similar problems in the RCMP?

[Nadine Huggins]

I can't give you a clear answer to that question because we haven't done enough research that indicates these kinds of problems exist.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Going back to what Ms. Bennett said earlier, you regularly associate with people from the Canadian Armed Forces. Do you get the impression that sexual assault complaints are handled differently in the RCMP than in the Canadian Armed Forces?

[Nadine Huggins]

I can't comment on the Canadian Armed Forces. However, in the RCMP, we take all such complaints very seriously. We're revising our code of conduct to ensure there is zero tolerance for sexual assault, discrimination or racism in the RCMP.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have another question regarding sexual harassment and sexual assault complaints.

Does the RCMP have a directory that you can consult to determine whether such and such a person has committed sexual assault or sexual harassment?

[Nadine Huggins]

We usually examine that kind of conduct on a case‑by‑case basis, and such conduct is entered in the person's record. However, we don't have that kind of searchable directory.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

I'd like to invite Ms. Rachel Blaney to take her six minutes, please. She's on video conference.

Go ahead.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that.

Welcome to all of our witnesses today. I'm really excited about your testimony. Thank you so much for being here.

I'm going to start by asking Ms. Huggins if she could answer and decide where the question should go if she's not the right person.

You spoke a bit about the transformation of the workplace and specific initiatives that are being done for women, and you said that those efforts are based on a body of knowledge. What are the specific initiatives and what is the body of knowledge that is informing those initiatives?

[Nadine Huggins]

Thanks very much for the question.

The organization is really quite focused on ensuring that we put all of our policies and our procedures through a gender-based analysis plus review. We started that process with our kit and equipment. As Assistant Commissioner Ebert elaborated, things look very different from the way they looked previously, and that is in part because of the gender-based analysis review we did.

The transformation for women in the organization has fundamentally been about ensuring that we develop leaders from all genders and that we ensure that those voices and those lived experiences are brought to bear as part of our decision-making in all areas. When we talk about transformation in the RCMP and we talk about how it impacts women, it's taking into consideration the recommendations and reviews that have been done on our organization, really taking them to heart and implementing them.

In fact, just recently, the commissioner appointed a new senior ADM responsible for transformation in the organization, whose primary role will be to ensure we implement all of the recommendations that are coming out of the variety of reviews to which the organization has been a party.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that.

I'm wondering whether you could share—if you know—how or whether the RCMP has implemented, or is implementing, any recommendations from the Bastarache report entitled “Broken Lives, Broken Dreams”, the final report on the implementation of the Merlo Davidson Settlement Agreement.

[Nadine Huggins]

Thank you for the question.

I can unequivocally say that we are definitely implementing the recommendations coming out of Bastarache. We publish, on our public-facing website, the progress we're making as it pertains to the culture change we've been driving at through Bastarache.

We can certainly support the committee by providing links to those reports to the clerk for your consideration.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I have a second follow-up question on that point. I know there has been some commentary that changing the culture from within can be a challenge and that there needs to be some support from external sources to change that culture.

I'm wondering how the work is going in addressing those recommendations in that area.

[Nadine Huggins]

Thank you for the question.

We are in fact quite engaged with our management advisory board as it pertains to any number of areas of change within the organization, including the culture change element.

The board has been expanded over the last months. In fact, I'm heading off to meetings in Yellowknife with the board in the next couple of days in order to orient some new members and continue the work we've been doing, not only in implementing the Bastarache recommendations but also in modernizing the organization writ large.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

I hope I have this right. Please correct me in your response if I don't.

I understand that women RCMP officers are staying for a period of time. It seems pretty stable, but it's not as long as it is for their male counterparts. I think I understood that. Can you correct me in that understanding if I'm wrong?

Also, can you explain the process of collecting data about serving RCMP officers who are women? I'm asking how women-focused information is being gathered, as well as what measurements are being done around women staying in the forces and around women's health outcomes through the period of time in which they serve.

One thing we heard from CAF veterans is that if they don't have information documented for the service part, when they get to the veteran section of their life, they're not getting the supports they require because the documentation wasn't done well.

I'm wondering whether you could talk about what's happening at the RCMP and how that is going.

[Nadine Huggins]

Thanks very much for the question.

I'll get it started and then I'll hand it over to Joanne Rigon, who is the keeper of all the knowledge in this particular area.

With regard to the collecting of data about women and their medical files, it is very important for us to have a complete file for our women members when they are in the service. There is increased comfort, I think, among women members coming forward if there are issues. Because of the efforts we're making around culture change, there isn't an effort to camouflage as much as there was before. I'm optimistic that we're doing better than we used to.

Perhaps Joanne can give us some updates on some numbers that will help supplement that.

[Joanne Rigon]

Thank you, Nadine.

Thank you for the question.

In the RCMP, the health records for both women and men who are serving are as comprehensive as they can be. We encourage our members to ensure that things are documented, especially when they are injured or ill on duty. That helps facilitate any applications for compensation to Veterans Affairs Canada in that regard.

Certainly, in terms of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have 15 seconds. You can complete your intervention.

[Joanne Rigon]

Thank you.

Certainly, it's about ensuring that Veterans Affairs gets provided with complete information in order to do any type of adjudication in that regard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mrs. Blaney.

Before I salute the witnesses, as you said, you have some documents on recruitment, retention and other things. Do not hesitate to send everything to the clerk.

I have a special request from our analyst for the report. We would like to know the number of claims for sexual trauma submitted by RCMP veterans to Veterans Affairs. We would be pleased to receive that kind of information for our report.

Ladies and gentlemen, in this second hour, we have heard from representatives of the RCMP, to whom we now say goodbye.

By videoconference, we had Jennifer Ebert, assistant commissioner, commanding officer, B division; and DeAnna Hill, assistant commissioner, commanding officer, J division.

We also had, in person, Nadine Huggins, chief human resources officer; and Joanne Rigon, executive director, executive liaison officer, national compensation services, human resources.

Once again, on behalf of the committee members and myself, we thank you for coming to meet with us today.

I'd like to thank the entire technical team and everyone who worked on this meeting, and I say goodbye to the members of the committee.

The meeting is adjourned.