Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 7th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting No. 75 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Monday, October 3, 2022, the committee is resuming its study on the experience of women veterans.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, and some members and witnesses are participating by videoconference. Although this room is equipped with a high‑quality audio system, I ask that you be very careful when you are speaking and not put your earpiece near the microphone. You will also note that the interpreters are not here physically, but virtually. However, if the connection isn't perfect, it can still disturb or hurt them. So, I ask that you be very careful.

In accordance with our routine motion regarding sound checks, I wish to inform you that all witnesses have passed the sound tests in advance of the meeting.

Before welcoming the witnesses, I would like to give you a warning. We will be discussing experiences related to mental health. It can be a trigger for the people who are here with us, those who follow our work online, members of the committee and their staff who have had similar experiences. If you feel distressed or if you need help, feel free to let the clerk know.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses.

From the Department of National Defence, we have Linda Rizzo Michelin, chief operating officer of the sexual misconduct support centre; Shoba Ranganathan, director of programs and services at the sexual misconduct support centre; and Colonel Peter Rowe, director of casualty support management. From the Department of Veterans Affairs, we have Amy Meunier, assistant deputy minister of the commemoration and public affairs branch, by video conference; Pamela Harrison, senior director of engagement and events, by video conference; and Dr. Cyd Courchesne, chief medical officer, also by video conference.

You will have five minutes for your opening remarks. We're going to go in the following order, starting with Amy Meunier, then Colonel Peter Rowe and, finally, Linda Rizzo Michelin.

Ms. Meunier, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Amy Meunier, Assistant Deputy Minister, Commemoration and Public Affairs Branch, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members, for having us here today.

In the spirit of reconciliation, I'd like to begin by acknowledging that the land upon which I testify today is unceded Mi'kmaq territory. Epekwitk is covered by the historic treaties of peace and friendship, and we pay our respects to the indigenous Mi'kmaq people who have occupied this island for over 12,000 years.

Women from all backgrounds have been key contributors to the Canadian Armed Forces, proving their equal commitment through sheer dedication and bravery. Of the 461,000 veterans of the CAF today, 15% are women. They represent the fastest-growing cohort within the veteran population. As of February 2023, women represented 13% of VAC veteran clients.

As we've heard, many women veterans experience difficulty adjusting to post-service life and can find losing their military identity a challenge. They can face difficulties, such as needing assistance with the activities of daily life, periods of homelessness and significantly lower levels of social support.

This means focusing on how we can adjust our processes to ensure that women veterans get the services and support they need, when and where they need it, and how they need it.

In 2019, the then minister of veterans affairs made a commitment to host an annual forum to discuss the specific challenges women face after service, with the most recent forum taking place earlier this year. VAC has continued to listen to and elevate the lived experiences of women veterans to strengthen our understanding.

In addition, Veterans Affairs Canada, or VAC, continues to work to implement more inclusive transition services for women veterans, in collaboration with our colleagues in the Canadian Armed Forces, or CAF, and those in the Department of National Defence.

In fact, this week the CAF-VAC joint steering committee met and agreed to make support for women in uniform and women veterans a permanent item on the agenda.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me, Ms. Meunier. We have a problem.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

I beg your pardon, and I beg the pardon of the witness as well, but there's a very strange echo that we're getting.

It's very disruptive when she's speaking. As well, there's interpretation with a bit of an echo.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm sorry, Ms. Meunier. We're going to take a short break in order to correct that situation. The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call the meeting back to order.

Ms. Meunier, I apologize. You still have three minutes to finish your opening remarks. The floor is yours.

[Amy Meunier]

VAC's efforts to make inclusive disability benefit decisions continue with the review of our entitlement eligibility guidelines and table of disability to ensure they are inclusive. VAC added a dedicated team to process disability benefit claims from applicant women veterans.

Several other important initiatives are under way in the department to support female veterans. For example, Dr. Cyd Courchesne, who is with us today, is the veteran health champion.

We launched a regular feature dedicated to women veterans in “Salute!”, our monthly newsletter.

Over the past three months, we have held three round tables with women veterans on the topic of employment, homelessness and the concept of a women veterans council.

We've also heard how important it is to connect women veterans with others in the community through the sharing of stories. Over the past few weeks, we have recorded 19 new interviews with women veterans who shared their experience, and we intend to make those available across all our channels for others to view.

We are increasing educational content and learning material that profile the service and sacrifice of women CAF members and veterans, and are taking more steps to engage educators and youth to ensure awareness of this information.

For 2022-23, $250,000 was provided to the Research Institute of the McGill University Health Centre through the veteran and family well-being fund. In addition, a total of $70,000 has been allocated to the Canadian women's well‑being initiative, which provides stress reduction training to women veterans and their families.

The Government of Canada funds two centres of excellence: the Atlas Institute and the chronic pain centre of excellence. Both centres are in the process of conducting research projects related to women veterans' health. Various OSI clinics funded by VAC have started group treatments focusing specifically on women's needs, including mindfulness, wellness groups and women's groups for military sexual trauma.

VAC's veteran well-being community health needs assessment is well under way to develop an inclusive holistic vision of the health and well-being of Canadian veterans, with a particular interest on equity-deserving groups such as women.

Veterans Affairs Canada takes many steps to ensure that women veterans receive the support and services they need and deserve. However, we recognize that much more needs to be done. That's why we're eagerly awaiting this committee's recommendations on how we can improve the experience of women veterans.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Meunier.

We, too, look forward to seeing that report and its recommendations.

I now invite Colonel Peter Rowe to take the floor for the next five minutes.

[Colonel Peter Rowe, Director, Casualty Support Management, Department of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon.

To start, I would like to acknowledge that we are gathered here today on the traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe nation. I would like to take this opportunity to recognize our commitment to meaningful reconciliation with the indigenous leaders and peoples across the land.

My name is Colonel Peter Rowe. I'm the director of casualty support management at the Department of National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces. As such, I oversee the casualty support administration that's provided to CAF members and their families when deaths and serious injuries occur.

I'm also responsible for our national military cemetery, the Canadian Armed Forces HOPE program, which provides peer support to CAF members and their families who are bereaved by the death of a family member, and our operational stress injury social support program, OSISS, which is why I've been called before you today.

The health and wellness of women veterans is very important. I am pleased to be here today to participant in your study on the experiences of women veterans and to talk to you about our OSISS program, which provides peer support to CAF members, veterans and their families who are living with operational stress injuries, which are also known as OSIs.

OSISS is one of the many resources that the Canadian Armed Forces transition group offers to assist ill and injured members, veterans and their families. Our OSISS program is a national peer support network that has existed since 2001. It is delivered in partnership by the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada. It is a critical, non-clinical addition to the mental health support of both departments. It offers a wide range of services to any serving or retired member of the Canadian Armed Forces who suffers from an OSI, and to their families.

An operational stress injury, for OSISS, is any persistent psychological difficulty resulting from operations in the military. This can include incidents in training, domestic operations or international operations, or simply burnout from the stressful demands of military life.

OSISS, as a non-clinical program, does not require a formal diagnosis of an OSI for access. Instead, it focuses on supporting members, veterans and their families in dealing with the impacts and social behaviours associated with operational stress injuries. Recognizing the challenges of seeking clinical treatment, OSISS provides a safe space for individuals with similar experiences to access and obtain direct support.

Given the risks of isolation and stigma for those affected by OSIs, the program aims to eliminate these factors and promote mental wellness and recovery.

For someone living with an OSI, the road to wellness can be hard to navigate. Peer support connects them to an understanding ear and a supportive community of people with similar experiences to help set goals and provide effective resources that can help. Breaking down the stigma and providing social peer support has led many CAF members, veterans and their families to seek the help they need and change their lives for the better.

Our OSISS team consists of approximately 70 staff across the country and a network of 79 trained volunteers who bring first-hand, lived experience and practical knowledge of what it is like to struggle with an OSI or to live with someone with an OSI. Peer support is provided one-on-one or in group sessions. On average, OSISS has approximately 2,000 peer contacts per month, of which 80% are veterans and their families and 20% are CAF members and their families.

We are currently evolving our program to support diversity and inclusiveness. We now have speciality support groups for indigenous peers, separated marital status groups and two regional women's groups with a third being planned. These groups aim to provide a safe space for members, veterans and families with unique experiences to receive trauma-informed peer support that considers the circumstances of each group's experiences, military service and the different sources of OSIs.

Finally, I would like to mention a success we've had in the recent months. In partnership with the Toronto Police Service, the military veterans wellness program was established. The military veterans wellness program has been adopted and well accepted by all police agencies in Ontario. It is soon rolling out in Regina, Saskatchewan. The RCMP also intends to adopt this program in the near future. This program creates an additional referral mechanism into OSISS for veterans in need.

Thank you very much. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Colonel Rowe. Welcome to the committee.

Linda Rizzo Michelin, we welcome you for the second time, but you're wearing a different hat this afternoon. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Linda Rizzo Michelin, Chief Operating Officer, Sexual Misconduct Support and Resource Centre, Department of National Defence]

Thank you for inviting us here again today. We really appreciate that.

Since 2015, the sexual misconduct support and resource centre has been supporting Canadian Armed Forces members who have been affected by sexual misconduct.

Over the last few years, the sexual misconduct support and resource centre has undergone many expansions. Today, the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me, Ms. Rizzo Michelin.

[A voice]

We're hearing the English interpretation over top of....

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

We will check that out. Just one second.

Continue, please. You have more than four minutes.

Thank you.

[Linda Rizzo Michelin]

Thank you, Chair.

Over the past few years, the sexual misconduct support and resource centre has undergone many expansions. Today the SMSRC provides support to those affected by sexual misconduct over the age of 16, including current CAF members, former CAF members and veterans, current and former Department of National Defence public service employees, cadets, Junior Canadian Rangers and families. We also provide expert advice, guidance and recommendations to the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces on matters related to sexual misconduct. The SMSRC operates independently from the Canadian Armed Forces chain of command and reports directly to the deputy minister of national defence.

As we know, many women veterans have experienced sexual misconduct during their time in uniform. The impacts of these events have been and continue to be profound. The SMSRC offers services that are supportive, inclusive and confidential. I will take a few moments to highlight some of the programs and services that are available.

Individuals affected by sexual misconduct can call the SMSRC 24-7 support line for confidential support, information on options, guidance on supporting others and referrals to care and service organizations. They will be connected with a trained counsellor in the official language of their choice 24 hours a day, seven days a week, toll-free by calling the 1-844-750-1648 number.

Veterans who have come forward and used our line have expressed issues regarding some of the barriers in accessing support and care. They mentioned that it was hard to advocate for themselves.

That brings me to our next program, the response and support coordination program. Individuals can obtain continuing support and assistance from a dedicated coordinator. Upon calling the SMSRC, individuals can receive various support services from their assigned coordinator, such as information and referrals to resources and services, advocacy, and accompaniments to appointments, meetings or proceedings. For example, some women veterans seek help from their RSC to fill out the VAC forms, accompany them to appointments or advocate on their behalf for VAC services.

The independent legal assistance program facilitates access to legal services for individuals who have experienced military sexual misconduct. In the current first phase of the program, the SMSRC is providing reimbursements for eligible legal costs incurred by those who have experienced military sexual misconduct.

The peer support program is currently being developed in collaboration with colleagues at Veterans Affairs Canada for current and former Canadian Armed Forces members, veterans and DND public service employees who have experienced sexual misconduct. Our current services include an online discussion platform and formal group sessions.

The SMSRC restorative engagement program provides class members of the sexual misconduct class action settlement with various options to share with representatives of the Department of National Defence aspects of their experience, impacts or insights as they relate to sexual misconduct.

The community support for sexual misconduct survivors grant program funds projects led by not-for-profit Canadian community-based service providers. These organizations have capacity and expertise to provide services and initiatives for those who have been affected. Projects include such things as support for sexual assault centres, virtual platforms, research and academic institutions, and counselling services.

The community consultations initiative has been established within the SMSRC to engage directly with those who have been affected by sexual misconduct. These consultations help to obtain feedback and inform our existing and future SMSRC support services, programs and initiatives to better reflect the community's needs.

Finally, the SMSRC outreach program uses different ways to reach our various clients, such as our veterans or our women veterans, in order to increase awareness about the various programs and services available.

We encourage those who have been affected by sexual misconduct to reach out to the SMSRC through the 1-844-750-1648 number.

Thank you again for this opportunity to be here today. We look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Michelin.

Now we are going to start with our period of questions. We're going to start with the six-minute questions.

I invite, first of all, Mr. Blake Richards, for six minutes, please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I have a number of important questions for each of you. However, for reasons I'll explain in a moment, I am first going to have to move a motion that we weren't able to finish dealing with during our committee business, which we had scheduled on Tuesday.

I don't know if it's required, but I believe it is, Mr. Chair. I'll read it back into the record during this meeting.

I move that, in relation to its study on the national monument to Canada’s mission in Afghanistan, the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs call the deputy commander of military personnel, Lieutenant-General Lise Bourgon, to appear before the committee on or before December 7, 2023, and order the production of all memoranda, briefing notes, emails, correspondence or any other records of conversations or communications—including text messages, Microsoft Teams messages, WhatsApp messages, Signal messages or other electronic messaging—with regard to the national monument to Canada’s mission in Afghanistan, transmitted since February 1, 2021, between the Department of Veterans Affairs and the office of the Minister of Veterans Affairs, the Department of Canadian Heritage and the office of the Minister of Canadian Heritage, the Department of Veterans Affairs and the Privy Council Office, the Department of Canadian Heritage and the Privy Council Office, the Privy Council Office and the office of the Prime Minister, the office of the Minister of Veterans Affairs and the office of the Prime Minister, and the office of the Minister of Canadian Heritage and the office of the Prime Minister, provided that these documents shall be provided to the clerk of the committee, in both official languages and without redaction, no later than December 13, 2023.

I have given the rationale for the motion, but I'll just briefly indicate for those who are watching or are with us today—

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

I believe the appropriate procedure, because the last meeting was adjourned, was a motion to resume debate as opposed to the reintroduction of the same motion.

A motion to resume debate is a dilatory motion, which goes straight to a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I have to consult the clerk about that.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Just on that point before you do so, Chair, I believe it's within my rights to move a motion, and I am doing so. I don't believe there is a need for a dilatory motion. We have a motion—

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I have to finish with the first point of order, and then I am going to go to you, Mr. May.

The clerk would like to suspend for a minute in order to consult his superior. I will come back to you.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call the meeting back to order.

As per the consultation, MP Casey, you are right.

He's not able to do that because this motion was discussed at our last meeting, but he can move a dilatory motion to ask to debate that. The dilatory motion should go to a vote, and you will be able to continue on that motion.

Is that okay, Mr. May? Okay, that's perfect.

Go ahead, Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

In that case, I move that we resume debate on the motion that I moved at the last meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

We have to go to a vote on that.

I'm going to ask the clerk to take the vote on that dilatory motion.

(Motion negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)

I'm sorry to our witnesses online and here.

Mr. Richards, you still have six minutes for questions.

Please, go ahead.