Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 9th, 2026

[Fraser Zerebecki]

No, it wasn't because I was a veteran. It's because I didn't have an established business with a year of revenue. That's a real hurdle. There are very few people out there who are willing to sign you a cheque that's actually going to get your business started without huge costs—you know, 12% or 13% interest rates or clawbacks. It's tough. Your first step is always on your own.

I would say the difference between the veterans experience and someone who's in private enterprise is that you can build a business on the side when you're working in the private industry, and you can get it there to a point where you're ready to launch and go full time. You can't do that in the military. We're ready for deployment, and we really have to be careful about what outside interests we have—for conflict of interest and our time management. There are some veterans who have been able to start little businesses, but I would say that's the exception, not the norm.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you for your answer. It helps me understand better. I'm an entrepreneur. It has been 30 years since I was able to start building my business.

I'm looking at all the opportunities for assistance, such as Community Futures Development Corporations, or CFDCs, and the Business Development Bank of Canada, or BDC. It's true that it's difficult. I wanted to make sure that it wasn't a check mark that made you vulnerable, that you had fears. In short, I just wanted to make sure.

In terms of risk management, what I understand is that needs have to be taken into consideration. It's really important to recognize veterans' needs in particular when it comes to their access to credit. There's a difference. I have worked hard in life. I'm still working hard. We understand each other. I think it's also important to understand what has been experienced in the past.

I'm now going to turn to Ms. Cyr.

That's fantastic. It's incredible. Even the minister went to meet with you just this summer. You remind me of a witness who appeared before the committee, Captain Jocelyn Démétré, who is the president of Hero Lodge. I don't know if you know him. His business enables him to connect with veterans. Obviously, you're in the national capital, so you're close by. When you go into the territories, it's more complicated.

Seriously, you're taking your money out of your pension fund. Is that correct?

You haven't had any funding, despite the proven positive effects of pet therapy, for as long as your company has existed. Why is that?

[Lisa Cyr]

It's because we're a private company. Some people tell me, “I'd love to give you money, but you have a private company. You're going to put it away in your pockets.” Sometimes, I even get that from veterans. There's jealousy. They say, “You have a private company.” Yet they see the benefits. Quite often, they're the ones who benefit. Unfortunately, we're excluded because we're a private company.

When I bought the company in 2019, just before the pandemic, I was leaving the Canadian Armed Forces at the same time. I bought it in July, and I left the forces in September. You know, when we leave the forces, we just want to get our heads above water. When it came time to do my tax return, I had to pay back $35,000 to Manulife, the financial institution that pays us our benefits after we leave, because I was told I wasn't part of the program. I still haven't received that money, and I still have to fight over that with Veterans Affairs Canada. When you leave the forces with post-traumatic stress disorder, you shouldn't have to apply to access the additional 15% of your salary. It should be automatic.

The first year, then, I was short of 15% of my salary, and I still haven't received that money. It's still under discussion. I paid back $35,000 to Manulife, and Veterans Affairs Canada still hasn't reimbursed me for that money, because I wasn't part of the program.

In fact, I'm not the only entrepreneur who has experienced that. That's something else that should be noted. When we leave the forces, we're told that there's no problem and that if we run out of money, Veterans Affairs Canada will reimburse us, but that isn't what happens.

In our case, we were told that we weren't members of the program. It should be automatic. We fill out so much paperwork, and we're so exhausted. We just want to get through this. For me, it was either the business or suicide, and I'm not the only one in that situation. There are many people trying to find something to continue serving their country and keep their heads above water.

They impose tons of paperwork on us even though they know we suffer from post-traumatic stress and they know the injuries we have. Put the paperwork aside. We're entitled to 15% of our salary and certain other things.

When I do something, I have to pay for it out of my own salary.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much.

I'm sorry, Ms. Cyr. As I explained to you, I'm responsible for the time.

We have about eight minutes left before we go in camera to welcome our other guests. I'm going to start by giving each speaker two minutes, and then we'll see if there's any time left.

Ms. Kronis, you have the floor for two minutes.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for their service and for their candour today. I had dinner the night before last with a young woman who's considering RMC after graduation. I can't help but contrast her bright-eyed optimism with the sobering testimony we've heard today.

Mr. Zerebecki, when you started in the Canadian Armed Forces, did you realize that you would be starting over again when you left?

[Fraser Zerebecki]

I think there's one caveat for most of us who joined the Canadian Armed Forces, especially around the time of Afghanistan: There was something a little bit wrong with us to begin with. We were putting ourselves in harm's way. For me, I didn't really have a good economic outlet at the time. I was a 22-year-old kid making $10 an hour. I didn't know what the economic future would hold after my service. It was the best job I could get at the time.

I think many of us do join for honour and service and all those things, but it's also a paycheque at the time, too. We don't really have a plan. You sort of plan halfway through.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you for that.

Can you elaborate, in the short period of time we have left here, on the gaps that exist between the employment supports that VAC offers and what veterans actually need to either get hired or start a business after they're discharged?

[Fraser Zerebecki]

In my experience, the supports in place were to get me a job. We don't want homeless veterans, so it's whatever gainful employment you can get: Let's shove you in there so that we can get you off the docket and you can provide for your families.

It's not about success. It's not about growth. It's not about investment. It's not about how good you can be or how high you can achieve. It's about the minimum standard and filling that.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

So—

Go ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

I promise we'll try to come back to you.

Go ahead for two minutes, Mr. Casey.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thanks to our witnesses for being with us, and thank you for your service to your country.

I'd like to bring Ms. Mondou into the conversation.

In preparing for this meeting, I saw that you had written a book called—

[Angela Mondou]

Hit the Ground Leading!

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

—Hit the Ground Leading! I know it was some time ago, and I must confess that I have not read it.

Can you tell us whether that forms the basis of the three very precise recommendations you gave us?

[Angela Mondou]

I guess you could say that it does, because the book is very much about the value of what we learn in the military to thrive as leaders or new recruits in wartime scenarios, the readiness, the training to lead, etc. The book was very much about what I learned in the military that I felt could be translated to the business world and was part of the company that I then built. I built leadership programming around that in the defence sector, in the tech sector, etc. after I served at BlackBerry.

I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but certainly the value—and both Madame Cyr and Mr. Zerebecki spoke about it—of the skills we come away with is what that book translated into the business world.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you.

I appreciate the very specific recommendations. Perhaps I can touch on the very first one.

You talked about a one-stop shop. What would it look like?

[Angela Mondou]

It should particularly focus on entrepreneurship. I think an accelerator is a great model. It would be focused on military veterans transitioning into the world of entrepreneurship, just like the accelerators do for business people or younger kids coming out of university who have AI degrees and want to run companies. None of us knows how to be an entrepreneur. Very quickly, you get a master’s degree in it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you, Madam Mondou.

I'm so sorry. As I explained, I am a very bad clock keeper. I'm so sorry to interrupt you.

Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for one minute and a half.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Madam Chair, rather than asking a question, I'd like to share my thoughts.

First, I want to address all veterans, including those listening to us: I see you and I hear you.

Seriously, it's a matter of will and recognition. For me, it's all there. It's just getting repeated. Veterans are asking us to understand them and give them a little help. It's a second battle they have to fight when they finish their service. However, it's all there.

I can see a small glimmer of hope, and this will be my last comment. The current government is talking a lot about investment, and here we're talking about something extraordinary. We're talking about entrepreneurship and investing in people who, like the witnesses, have so much talent, resilience and ability. I think even the minister is listening to us and that there may be a turnaround. It saddens me to hear that it's being talked about but that nothing is changing. That's unacceptable.

Thank you so much to the witnesses for taking the time to come here and for having the courage to share your stories.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you, Ms. Gaudreau.

We're ready to welcome our other guests, but I would like to give the Conservatives and Liberals one minute to complete this round.

Mr. Tolmie, you have the floor.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you to our witnesses, and thank you for your service.

In your testimonies today, what really stood out to me was the disparity in risk tolerance. A nation asks you to go somewhere and serve overseas and for you to put your life on the line, but when it comes to your releasing, there's zero safety net and a lack of risk tolerance in a nation willing to support you in your next venture.

I'd like for you to be able to share a bit more, Mr. Zerebecki, Fraser, of your thoughts on that, please.

[Fraser Zerebecki]

Thank you, Fraser.

[A voice]

Oh, oh!

[Fraser Zerebecki]

You're absolutely right. There is this disparity in risk tolerance.

The government definitely needs to shoulder some of the responsibility of transitioning veterans and do whatever we can, collectively, as a nation, to support those veterans.

I'm not here today for me. I'm here for all those other veterans who are transitioning in the future. They're going to need us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Go ahead for the last minute, Mr. Casey.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

I'll go back to Ms. Mondou.

In some of your writings, you're clearly a champion of DEI. In your testimony today, you indicated that DEI should be expanded to include veterans.

I'd be interested in your reflections on the current state of DEI internationally, given what's happening to our south. Is this still something that needs to take up headspace in the minds of business leaders?