Evidence of meeting #35 for Veterans Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pcvrs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Why don't we go down that line? Why don't you share a little of what you think we could be doing better?
As an Individual
Sure. I think we've made great strides over the last number of years in assessing and understanding the importance of mental health within the Canadian Armed Forces and the impact this has on our veterans after service.
One of the aspects of mental health that I think may be under-studied, perhaps, is that of racial trauma. That is something that people can experience both in uniform and also out in society. If there is a racial trauma experience within the CAF or on deployment that sticks with a CAF member and impacts them post service, they have not only the effects of that initial trauma, but also the recurring triggers that are going to occur in society as a result of that constantly being present.
It's assessing that initial trauma but also understanding that for Black veterans and for other racialized veterans, that experience is not going to be unique to their service. It's going to be ongoing.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
You talked about next steps. You've identified where we can go.
Do you have any steps that you think we should take or something that we should be following in order to deal with the challenges that you brought forward in your last comments?
As an Individual
Making sure that we explicitly look at race-based trauma and have a full understanding of how that impacts our serving members and our veterans, and their life post service, is one thing to do.
Also, I don't know if it would be called an active offer, but another is making sure that it is clear that Veterans Affairs and the Canadian Armed Forces are looking at that specifically, so that racialized and Black members of the Canadian Armed Forces feel more comfortable bringing those issues forward and have a degree of confidence that they can be addressed with the same level of interest as other forms of trauma.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Do you think some of the issues we've had in the past with racism within the Canadian Armed Forces are going to be a challenge for recruiting in the future?
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Okay. Can you give me your reasons?
Let me ask you, why did you join the Canadian Armed Forces, and then why would it stop another person who's Black from joining?
As an Individual
Why did I join? Probably it was too many war movies when I was a kid.
I distinctly remember walking into a recruiting centre and saying, I want to fly the planes off the ship. They said, we don't do that here, son, but you can join and be a bosun, so that's what I did. I had an interest in sailing as a kid. I very much valued service, I guess, from a young age, and it was something that I was interested in doing.
Why might it deter other folks from joining? As I said in my opening remarks, sir, there are people who come to the organization from all different walks of life, from all different corners of the earth, and all with different lived experiences. I think some folks may have an impression of a military that is not one they believe they would fit into. They may not see themselves in the organization. I don't think that's an insurmountable challenge, but it's one I'm looking forward to helping address.
Conservative
Liberal
Tatiana Auguste Liberal Terrebonne, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Tesfamichael, thank you very much for joining us today.
You spoke at length about the issue of representation and how important it is. At our committee, we’ve conducted several studies so far, and you are the first Black veteran to participate in a study.
This study really focuses on the experiences of Black veterans. We see that there is a certain unease, a certain reluctance among Black veterans to come forward to us, at committee, and to participate in the conversation about the experience of veterans in general, which includes their own experiences.
In your opinion, why is this so difficult? Why is there this reluctance among Black veterans to come forward and talk about their experiences in the Canadian Armed Forces in relation to the system?
As an Individual
Thank you for the question.
I do not know if I have the tools I need to speak for others. However, I am here because I believe that my 25 years of experience can help bring a perspective and insight to the committee based on my own experience. I do not know why, to date, other veterans have not come to meet with you. Perhaps this will encourage them to come and do so in the future.
Liberal
Tatiana Auguste Liberal Terrebonne, QC
Thank you very much.
You also talked about opportunities you were given, about your early days as a bosun and where you are now.
In your view, what are the barriers, not only for you but also for other Black veterans or Canadian Armed Forces, or CAF, members?
As an Individual
That's a good question.
With regard to the barriers, it's clear there will always be people who do not believe there is a place for us within the organization. The organization per se does not hold that view, but rather society. We often hear that the CAF is a group that represents Canadian society as a whole. Some CAF members hold similar views.
You started your question by mentioning representation. I think it's very important. Indeed, our first Black general officers in the military, namely Rear Admiral Olivier and recently Commodore Williams, were recently appointed.
I think that the current representation among senior officers will encourage people and demonstrate to everyone in the Canadian Armed Forces that there is room for all Canadians.
Liberal
Tatiana Auguste Liberal Terrebonne, QC
In your experience or that of your colleagues, are Black veterans, be they women or men, treated fairly today?
Liberal
Tatiana Auguste Liberal Terrebonne, QC
I'm talking about the way the institutions treat them.
As a reservist, do you believe that you and your colleagues are treated fairly compared to other veterans, not only by Veterans Affairs Canada but also by the Canadian Armed Forces?
As an Individual
I cannot speak for everyone, but I can share one of my experiences.
I was one of the founders of the Black Defence Employees Network. One of our first initiatives was to lay a wreath at the national Remembrance Day ceremony for Black veterans. This was important to us because we wanted Black veterans and Black members of the Canadian Armed Forces to be represented at the national ceremony for veterans. This was supported by the Chief of the Defence Staff and the Royal Canadian Legion, which organizes this ceremony. So I think there is a willingness to welcome people and be more inclusive.
Are we treated fairly across institutions? I cannot answer that, but I see examples where there is a willingness to be more inclusive.
Liberal
Tatiana Auguste Liberal Terrebonne, QC
You spoke a little about newcomers who are helping to protect our country in the military. Could you talk about your experience working with them?
How does the experience of protecting our country differ for newcomers?
As an Individual
I cannot think of a single example of a newcomer with whom I spoke who did not express great pride in being able to be part of the Canadian Armed Forces.
Once again, I do not want to speak for all newcomers; however, from what I understand based on the experiences and stories they told me, they are extremely proud to be here. They see it as a real opportunity to integrate into Canadian society and to thank the country that welcomed them at a time when things may have been difficult for them.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Blake Richards
That concludes this round of questions.
Ms. Gaudreau for six minutes.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I thank the witnesses for joining us.
Actually, I have some very specific questions.
I am someone who is aware of systems or cultures. As you said, I saw a lot of movies, but there's no difference to me when it comes to gender or colour.
We have spent a lot of time examining the situation women veterans face, meaning women who served in the military. Indeed, we still haven't really examined whether, as you say, racial trauma potentially exists. What does it look like?
We heard about women's experiences. Women talked about harassment, assault, sexual violence and verbal abuse, but what does racial trauma look like?
As an Individual
That's a good question.
I'm no expert on the matter, but I will answer to the best of my ability.
Racial trauma can differ from person to person, and it depends on people's experiences. I would say it means being part of a community, institution or group in which you are not included. It's having to navigate that. It might be words that people tell you over and over, it might be experiences you have, it might be discrimination or racism on a daily basis.