Veterans Affairs Committee on June 3rd, 2026

[Door L. Gibson]

Of course there does, if you don't mind my saying. I was a regimental sergeant major, so I looked after the troops. There was nothing at the time. However, we were trying to build up a relationship, especially with those who were deployed and especially at the time of the Afghanistan war. I mean, the simple solution was to keep them on the class C contract so they could get the regular force benefits that the class A reservists do not.

I'm also talking about the fact that there is a movement afoot to make that happen. I've been privy to the women's veterans group and what they're trying to do. Two years ago, that was the first acknowledgement of that.

You're correct, sir, that here we are today, and the first time I heard it was in January.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

I had a couple of questions more, but I'm told that time flies by very quickly, apparently.

Thank you very much for your contributions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Mr. Richards.

We'll go to Mr. Clark for five minutes.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here this afternoon.

Ms. Gibson, it's great to see you. Like you, I am a very proud Haligonian. It's great to have you here. I represent Sackville—Bedford—Preston. That includes many historied Black communities that you would know very well, of course, such as North Preston, East Preston, Cherry Brook, Loon Lake and so on.

Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing your story and your service. Did you mention it was 44 years?

[Door L. Gibson]

It was 44 plus, sir.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Exactly. We'll give you every day that you deserve.

We often assume that things get better over time naturally. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. In some areas they do and in some areas they don't. If you look back at the sweep of 44-plus years of service, how would you compare the evolution of your experience over time? In what ways did you see it improving? In what ways did you see maybe not as much progress as we would like to see?

[Door L. Gibson]

Basically, my experience is that I survived. I'm healthy and happy. I see that the military has also done a lot of changing. I came in at a very rough time. Reservists were not even paid. I didn't get paid for the first nine months. Now they have some comparable pay. I worked with the medical organization. When the health services left all of the other elements and became part of their own health services group, their credentials started to matter. It took a couple of years, but the paramedics, nurses, etc., were already qualified. There has been large improvement.

I did spend 2020 working with the defence visible minority advisory group. I was the national co-chair. Some changes were happening then, but of late, with the 2022 advisory panel that I was on, we were still dealing with some of the old stuff, with employment equity and those kinds of things. It's improved, but at a snail's pace. You're going to lose your people, and you're going to lose the Canadian citizens unless it feels like an act of urgency. People are out there hurting.

Before me there was a woman named Master Warrant Officer Sarah Hayward from Nova Scotia—she was from Cape Breton, by the way—who was the only Black woman I saw of any rank. There was nothing—nothing—for her, ever, but if there was something to help her out at this particular time, I would do the volunteer time. I keep doing the volunteer time, because nobody else is lifting it up.

Just talk to the people. I'll see you at the No. 2 celebration.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Yes, you will. It's a wonderful, amazing place. However, I won't go down that rabbit hole. We'll talk about it later.

I'm curious about your experience with the advisory panel in 2021-22. You've mentioned that a couple of times. How did that come about? What was that work like, and how do we make sure that those kinds of efforts bear fruit?

[Door L. Gibson]

It was at the particular time that the former minister, Harjit Sajjan.... I served with him, years ago, with 39th Brigade, when he was in uniform. He was also part of the defence visible minority advisory group.

He called me. I asked him why, and he said it was because I don't give him any BS. I tell the truth. I thought about it, and I did.... Then I realized how important it was, because Justice Fish had just done his review of the National Defence Act. Our new up-and-coming Governor General also did the report on sexual misconduct. I'm very proud to be part of that.

However, it was during COVID, and there were the testimonies, the people, the abuse and the racism that existed and still exist today. We see things like $500 million put towards Black mental health. I don't see it. Where is it? Who has it? I travel across the country. I don't hear any stories about that, so I speak up.

Is it improving? Yes, it has to, but sometimes it goes to the extremes. We fought hard for certain things that we needed to have for the employment equity groups, and others seem to take over some of these benefits. Let's just keep it on a clean playing field. Ambassadors need to speak on behalf of some of these people who can't speak for themselves, and there are people who are serving and do not want retribution.

There are some failures, but there seems to be, only because I'm a veteran and I'm more aware.... Off the street, you're not going to get someone who will say, “Let's go, army.” It's a different world, for sure, so we have to make a few more changes that way, reaching out....

I see the chair.

I'm sorry.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

No apologies.... You're right on time. It's perfect.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Do not apologize. I was gesturing to my colleague to say that there were 20 seconds left and not to question you again, but you were welcome to end your sentence, ma'am. Thank you very much.

Now Madame Gaudreau will be asking questions. She will be addressing both of you in French.

Ms. Gibson, I don't know how comfortable you are with the French language, but I would invite you to put on your little earpiece.

I will speak in French to make sure you can hear me clearly in English. I want to make sure you can hear the interpretation of what I am saying and what Ms. Gaudreau is saying in the language of your choice.

Everything seems to be working fine, so that's great.

Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I thank the witnesses for joining us.

You have a wealth of experience and quite a background. We should hear from you for more than an hour.

Our time is very limited, but if you have additional information or much more detailed testimony, please feel free to share it with us. I have just one question for you before I let my colleagues continue.

We have two witnesses who are Black veterans and who have told us that, in their experience, they had not perceived any different treatment or discrimination.

In your case, in addition to being Black, you are a woman. So my question for you is simple: Are the difficulties you experienced in the Canadian Armed Forces more related to the fact that you are a woman or to the fact that you are Black?

[Door L. Gibson]

First of all, thank you for the question in French, but...only English.

As a woman, yes, I certainly did. I was the one and only chief warrant officer who was never promoted in the brigade. I was...three years, and for everybody else, it was two years to be a chief warrant officer. That happened, promotion-wise, all along. My career was basically because I couldn't move forward.

I worked at the Atlantic militia area headquarters for decades before they changed to the brigade levels. During that particular time, they weren't going to hire me in a new position because the offices were not of colour. They were different times and different circumstances.

You can invite me any time. I'll have a chat with you about some of the things that are a little deeper, one-on-one, but I understand there are five minutes here.

I hope that answers you.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

That's excellent.

I just want to say thank you. I have actually seen Out Standing twice. I haven't met the veteran Sandra Perron from the Pepper Pod, but I hope all my colleagues have seen that film, which is very graphic.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Ms. Gaudreau.

We will now conclude this round of questions with two more five-minute turns.

We have five minutes for Mr. Tolmie.

Our last round will go to Mrs. Royer.

You have five minutes, Mr. Tolmie.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing here today.

Doreen, I just want to say that you blew the doors off here when you walked in. I love it. It is a great name that you have.

[Door L. Gibson]

As in Door, sir?

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

As in Door, just blowing open the door of opportunity. I love it. I love your passion.

I want to be clear, because I need to frame this in the context of the study that we're doing right now. You have not had any interactions with Veterans Affairs as of yet.

[Door L. Gibson]

Negative, sir. I have. Somebody reached out to me after I chatted with a gentleman at the apology. Two levels down from this gentleman in Nanaimo, a gentleman from Veterans Affairs called me to see how he could help me.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay, so have you registered, signed up and gotten a My VAC account?

[Door L. Gibson]

Yes, sir.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay.

Before we move on with that, I have a very important question, because I spoke to a reservist recently in my office. Do you think it would be a good idea for this committee to do a study on veteran reservists versus full-time members who have served?

[Door L. Gibson]

Yes. They're distinct organizations. I might invite you to go to your local armouries.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

I probably will; actually, I have. I won't tell you why I go there, but it's usually on a Friday afternoon.

Thank you. I think it's very important for us to understand that there are differences for reservists and for full-time members and that this would be a good opportunity for this committee to study that and see the challenges that reservists face.

I want to continue a bit on the journey that you've had now with your interaction with Veterans Affairs. They reached out to you. Why did you not reach out to them? What was the reason behind that?

[Door L. Gibson]

It was lack of trust. I didn't know anybody. I've always been told I'm a reservist, a class A reservist. It doesn't matter that I did class C or class B before. I was class A today, and no, thank you.