Debates of Jan. 25th, 1994

Foreign Affairs

[François Langlois, Bloc, Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is twofold but I will be brief in order to enable the hon. member for Calgary Southwest and leader of the Reform Party to provide an answer.

At the beginning of his speech, the hon. member said that we should establish criteria to decide when Canada should participate in international missions. Would the hon. member specify which criteria he would like to use in the present case? Also, at the end of his speech, the hon. member suggested-at least it is my understand, but I would like some clarification-that Canadian troops could stay there under certain conditions. If these conditions, and I believe there are three, are fulfilled, does the hon. member for Calgary Southwest suggest that Canadian troops should stay in the former Yugoslavia?

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I think the answer to both of these questions is the same. I was attempting to suggest whether we could define certain criteria that would govern whether Canada participated or not in a peacekeeping operation and if it did decide to do that, whether to remain. In the minister's statement this morning one will notice that he listed the four or five guidelines that we have used in the past and I think a number of those are adequate.

The one that I would suggest refining is perhaps Canada insisting more than we have in the past of an adequate command structure and logistical support structure for any peacekeeping operations that we get into. I do believe a number of our own military people have suggested that if there is a weak link then the UN is good at getting a legal mandate to get in there but it is not so good at managing the on the spot command of logistics. I think maybe strengthening that one criterion would be a step in the right direction.

[Pat O'Brien, Liberal, London—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the thoughts of the leader of the Reform Party.

I would like to ask him if he could elaborate on his statement that we ought to distinguish between a conflict that is resolvable as compared to one that is not.

I think we have seen recently in our world some very ancient feuds such as the one between the Israelis and the PLO and indeed in northern Ireland which I remember hearing about from my grandmother. We have seen progress in some areas that perhaps people felt were unresolvable.

I ask the leader of the Reform Party if he could elaborate as to how he would make that very complex determination. I wonder if he could also address this fact. In his speaking to the humanitarian role we are playing there, that itself would seem to suggest that it is very difficult to determine when a conflict is resolvable and that we may well have a role to play as Canadians with our expertise in what superficially could appear to be thoroughly hopeless.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question.

I did not mean to imply that the criteria should be whether the conflict is resolvable or unresolvable. If I did this then I was not communicating. I think the dilemma was pointed out with just having that as the criterion.

I was suggesting that perhaps we could set some modest expectations in situations that we get into. It is not that we are going to resolve some ancient conflict that has been going on for hundreds of years but even in the case of Bosnia would it be unrealistic to set the expectation? At least we would get some kind of shaky agreement like the one in Croatia which is hardly a peace agreement but it is better than what there is in Bosnia. If that was the expectation then at least a goal would be set. If one can get it then one can say that is grounds for continuing to proceed.

I am talking about extremely modest expectations but something that one can work toward as a criterion.

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to follow up on the last question that was asked.

We have heard a number of different perspectives from Reform Party members of Parliament who have spoken. I think that is a healthy thing.

However, I must say it has left me a little confused as to what the position is of the Reform Party or indeed if there is a position of the party as such. I want to ask the leader of the Reform Party to clarify the position.

We heard from the member for Calgary Southeast who said that in her opinion Canadian troops should pull out. The mandate expires on March 31 and Canadian troops should pull out because we are not able to fulfil a humanitarian role is what she said.

I want to ask the leader of the Reform Party very specifically if he agrees with the position taken by his colleague from Calgary Southeast. This position was taken as well as I under-

stand it with certain moderation by his colleague from Saanich-Gulf Islands. Does he rather agree with the position taken by his colleague from Red Deer who suggested for the reasons that some of us have enunciated that there is a very important humanitarian role for the United Nations to play and that Canada should-

[The Deputy Speaker]

Very briefly, please. The leader of the Reform Party.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is a complex question.

First, the Reform Party is not taking a position on this particular issue. We have encouraged our members to speak their own views and the views of their constituents.

I would suggest to the hon. member though that the positions that have been expressed by these various members are reconcilable. I think there is a desire to participate in this peacekeeping role subject to certain conditions and I think the debate among us is on what those conditions should be.

Some would say that those conditions cannot be made and therefore we should withdraw. Others would go along with imposing other conditions. I think the debate among us is not whether to withdraw or not to withdraw, but whether to stay or withdraw in accordance with certain conditions.

[Allan Kerpan, Reform, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, on this seventh day that the 35th Parliament has been sitting, I want to join my colleagues in congratulating you on your election. You and your colleagues have really helped me and others to become oriented with the procedures of this Chamber.

I also want to thank many others who have made a tremendous contribution in allowing me to be here in this House. I could not be here without the unfailing support and love of my parents, my wife Melanie, our four children, Joshua, Tyrel, Stephanie and Danille, and many other dear friends who I want to salute here today.

I want to thank the people of Moose Jaw-Lake Centre for the honour of representing them here in Ottawa. As many have mentioned before me, today's politicians are not always viewed with the greatest amount of respect. My goal here in this 35th Parliament is to do my part to put back the honour in the term honourable member.

I represent the riding that has often been called the heartland of Saskatchewan. Moose Jaw-Lake Centre is surrounded by nine other federal ridings. It is truly prairie country with agriculture being the primary industry. The Trans-Canada and the Yellowhead highways run directly through our riding and carry thousands of tourists both east and west across this beautiful part of our country every year.

The population is divided equally between the city of Moose Jaw and surrounding small towns of about 70 small towns and villages. It has been my privilege to visit every one of these towns over the last few months and to listen to the concerns and the ideas of rank and file Canadians of every political stripe.

As mentioned by other hon. members before me, we also had some famous people who came to this place before me. The great John Diefenbaker represented part of my riding during his years as Prime Minister. We are also home to the world famous Snowbirds at the Canadian Forces Base 15 Wing in Moose Jaw. Yes, we are indeed proud Canadians in the heartland of Saskatchewan.

I am here today also to speak on a subject that is of great concern to me. It is a subject that I feel very close to in many ways. Early this century my grandparents emigrated from Croatia to this great country of ours. They came here, like millions of others, to escape political persecution and oppression. They felt locked into a political system that gave them no alternative but to leave.

I too have felt that same urgent desire for political change, but here in Canada, unlike my grandparents in Croatia, I do not need to run away. I am very thankful that I can stay here and become part of the vast political change that is sweeping this nation.

As I mentioned before, I feel very close to the subject matter here today. Like my friend, the hon. member for Cambridge, my family's roots are deep in the war torn region that we know as the former Yugoslavia.

The history of this area is long and troubled. If one looks back on the last 100 years one sees that each generation carries the same hatred and mistrust of the one before it. That in itself is reason enough to convince me that our involvement in the area represents an almost impossible challenge. There are no good guys or bad guys in this war. Each side is responsible to some degree for the problems that we see daily. That has always been the case.

The small town where I live has, over the past 90 years, had the distinction of being the new home for a great many immigrants from the former Yugoslavia. In Canada, Kenaston has the highest number of former Yugoslavian residents per capita living outside of their homeland.

In the last few months I have had the opportunity to be directly involved with three gentlemen and their families who have emigrated from the former Yugoslavia to Canada. I have come to know these men and their families personally. Their backgrounds as well as their ideas are varied. One gentleman is a Croat, one is a Muslim Croat and the other is a Serbian Croat.

I would now like to give a few short quotes from these three gentlemen who have witnessed first hand the torture and the horror of their homeland.

One gentleman told me: "You must run from building to building like a mouse. What is needed are peacemakers, not peacekeepers, but perhaps it is too late. From my Croatian viewpoint the United Nations was required more when the war was first started. They are now not needed. The war would not be any different with or without them".

I quote the second gentleman who said: "Permanent humanitarian aid can only be achieved with the settlement of the war. A new approach must be found by the United Nations. The UN soldiers are put in a situation of humiliation. They are not serving in the capacity of peacekeeping. Bosnians have lost hope that the United Nations can help the problem. The United Nations should intervene in a new way".

The third gentleman told me: "The United Nations humanitarian assistance provides some relief, when you can get it. For example, my parents from May 1992 to their escape in August 1993 received only one package of United Nations supplies containing one kilo of flour and one bar of soap. The battle line is within 5 kilometres of my home. I live through constant days of fighting and you can hear bombing and gunfire followed by a few days of limited gunfire. Families would move in fear of an imminent outbreak".

Even among these three people we see varied opinions as to the success of the humanitarian aid we are trying to place in Bosnia. What appears common to me in their comments however is that there will be no short-term fix to the problem. It is likely to be a situation where a United Nations peacekeeping operation will have to be considered for a very long time. Before that can happen, I believe, along with these people, that peace must be made.

The United Nations forces are now between a rock and a hard place. There is no consensus among the warring parties themselves as to the United Nations involvement in Bosnia. The humanitarian aid I think is appreciated. The military element I think is despised. The warmongers would like them to leave; the victims need them to stay.

I see the only option that is left to us as part of the United Nations force is to withdraw temporarily and re-evaluate the situation. Threats and ultimatums to stop the fighting have not worked to this point. I believe that we must take a firmer stand. I say this with mixed emotions. It is hard for me to stand here and propose withdrawal knowing full well that one of my relatives might die for lack of food or medical aid. Yet I know that in my heart we cannot continue for much longer under the present circumstances.

Canadian lives have been and will continue to be lost for a mission that I now believe can achieve no satisfactory conclusion. We must be prepared to give our United Nations force a new mandate.

In conclusion I urge the government to continue to study the history, the people and the present situation of this area and make its decision based on the best interests of Canadians and of all those involved.

[Raymond Chan, Liberal, Secretary of State (Asia-Pacific)]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on your appointment as Deputy Speaker of the House and I would also like to take this opportunity to thank you for your encouragement during my campaign. Without your encouragement I would not be here today, Sir.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the people of Richmond, my riding, who have looked beyond my ethnicity and have elected me as their member of Parliament. In Richmond not only do we talk about multiculturalism, we also practise multiculturalism.

[The Deputy Speaker]

I hate to interrupt you, especially after what you have been saying, but I think yours is more a speech than a comment on the speech that was just made. Am I not correct?

[Raymond Chan, Liberal, Richmond, BC]

Actually I will be following up with my questions, Mr. Speaker.

I can identify with the hon. member about his background. I too came to Canada in search of freedom and democracy.

I feel that what is happening in the former Yugoslavia is not only a problem of military action.

As the hon. member has said, it is because of the hatred between the different ethnic groups there. Even though they have been living together for hundreds of years the hatred still exists.

It is important for us to preach to the people in that region about how Canadians can live together peacefully. It is because we have the idea of multiculturalism, that we respect each other regardless of our racial backgrounds.

The question I would like to ask the hon. member is: While the Reform Party members are visiting that troubled region, would they please take the opportunity to preach to the people in that region about how beautiful and wonderful multiculturalism is and let them understand the very important parts our various cultures play in Canada.

[Allan Kerpan, Reform, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned in my address, certainly that is one of the problems. This conflict is not something new. It has been going on for many years, in fact, for more than one century. That has always been the problem. From

time to time there will be an outbreak of violence such as we are seeing right now.

The key situation here as I mentioned is that first we have to stop the fighting somehow, either through ultimatums or other means. Then once the fighting is stopped, we can go in and we can start to work on the real humanitarian aid and get all three sides talking to each other.

[Simon de Jong, NDP, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to the remarks by the member for Moose Jaw-Lake Centre. I appreciate the fact that his ancestry is Croatian.

Having been to Croatia and Bosnia several times and having helped organized the first group of members of Parliament who supervised the first free election both in Bosnia and in Croatia, what I am hearing from them is that even though the UN troops, both as peacekeepers in Croatia and as suppliers of humanitarian aid in Bosnia, even though the UN troops in many instances have been "ineffectual", they are a thin line which has prevented a total holocaust. To remove that thin line would mean the death of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children.

Are we really prepared and is the hon. member suggesting we should remove that thin line? Are we prepared to live with the consequences and the thought that we might have been responsible for the deaths of so many innocent people?

[Allan Kerpan, Reform, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member poses a very good question. It is a valid argument and certainly one we must not overlook, the humanitarian side of things.

The people I talk to, those most directly involved, are telling me there is very little trust on either side. They are telling me that whether we were there as a peacekeeping force or a humanitarian force, it really would make very little difference whether we were there or not as far as what the consequences of the war would actually be.

I have based my thinking on that type of common sense approach, common person approach to it.

[Janko Peric, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to participate in this important debate concerning Canada's role in peacekeeping with specific reference to our role in Bosnia-Hercegovina and Croatia.

I have a personal interest in what has been taking place in Croatia and Bosnia because that is where I am from. I was born in Croatia. My roots are there. I have family and friends there. The situation in my old homeland has caused me great anxiety and it has been disheartening to say the least.

In 1992 when the United Nations Security Council announced that it was sending peacekeepers to Croatia and later to Bosnia and Hercegovina, I was confident that a resolution to the conflict was within reach. I was optimistic that with peacekeepers, there would be peace. Unfortunately I was mistaken.

On February 21, 1992 Canada announced that it would commit up to 1,200 personnel to serve with the United Nations protection force in Croatia. Two months later 30 RCMP officers made the trip to Croatia to assist as police monitors. Our contingent became part of a 13,000, 31-country mission, which was the largest UN peacekeeping operation since the Congo in 1960.

UNPROFOR's operational mandate currently extends to the five republics of the former Yugoslavia. Those include Croatia, Bosnia and Hercegovina, Macedonia, Montenegro and Serbia. It also has a liaison presence in the sixth republic of Slovenia. In Croatia, UNPROFOR was deployed to areas where it was felt that its presence could help to ensure a lasting ceasefire.

Those areas were designated as United Nations protected areas. In the UNPA zones in Croatia, Serbs constituted the majority or a substantial minority of the population and ethnic tensions had resulted in armed conflict.

The UN's original mandate for Croatia was outlined in UN resolution 743 and had several objectives: to ensure the withdrawal of the Yugoslav National Army from all parts of Croatia; to ensure that all UN protected areas were demilitarized through the withdrawal or break up of all armed forces in them; to see that all persons residing in those areas were protected from fear and armed attack; to control access to those areas and to ensure that they remained demilitarized; to monitor the operations of local police and to help ensure non-discrimination and protection of human rights; to support the work of UN humanitarian agencies; and to facilitate the return, in conditions of safety and security, of civilian displaced persons to their homes in the UN protected areas.

I can say with confidence that in Croatia the UN has been unable to fulfil much of the mandate which I have just described.

While it is true that the Yugoslav National Army no longer has a visible presence in Croatia and that UN peacekeepers have been largely successful in their support of humanitarian assistance missions, both in Croatia and Bosnia, UNPROFOR has been unable to ensure the demilitarization of the protected areas and it has had little success in helping displaced civilians return to their homes.

Some have been extremely critical of the UN's inability to fulfil its mandate, not just in Croatia and Bosnia and Hercegovina, but in other parts of the world. In a recent article by Robin Harris, political advisor to former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, Mr. Harris accuses UNPROFOR of presiding over "constant ethnic cleansing by Serbs who are driving

Croatian citizens from their homes in occupied Croatian territory".

He writes that during a recent trip to Croatia he also witnessed the daily shelling of the Croatian towns of Gospic, Karlovac, Zadar and Osijek by Serbs, all from within so-called United Nations protected areas.

The criticism has also unexpectedly come from all sides in the conflict. Last January the entire mission was placed in jeopardy when Croatian President Franjo Tudjman stated that he did not want to grant UNPROFOR an extension of its mandate because it had failed to achieve its original objective. In particular President Tudjman was reacting to the failure of the UN to demilitarize those forces in UN protected areas.

Even the United Nations itself has admitted that in Croatia UNPROFOR has been unable to establish conditions of peace and security that would have permitted the voluntary return of refugees and displaced persons to their homes in the protected areas. The UN has admitted that despite the best efforts of its civilian police they have been unable to prevent discrimination and abuse of human rights in the protected zones in the first year of their mandate. The UN has also expressed frustration over its inability to compel the warring parties into accepting negotiated agreements.

The situation in Bosnia is somewhat different from that in Croatia. For starters, the mandate of peacekeepers in Bosnia was strictly to assist in the delivery of humanitarian aid to the victims of the war. That has not been an easy job. Quite often the delivery of aid has been dangerous and difficult. Aid convoys have been detained at various checkpoints for hours and days on end while the war victims wait.

While aid is getting through to some of those in need, it is getting there with great risk to those who are delivering it. The war is fiercely continuing in Bosnia. Sniper fire and shelling continue to be daily occurrences. While the UN refers to safe areas in parts of Bosnia, fighting continues in and around those areas.

In fact it is in one of those so-called safe areas that Canadian peacekeepers have been surrounded. They are unable to leave until replacement troops arrive. However replacement troops have not been permitted to enter the town of Srebrenica to relieve our troops. While an agreement to allow our peacekeepers to leave appeared to have been reached in principle several weeks ago, Canadians are still waiting for their replacements.

In conclusion, this peacekeeping mission has had some unforgettable successes. In July 1992 Canadian soldiers liberated the Sarajevo airport and enabled airlifts of humanitarian assistance to commence in a region that had been without food and other necessities for far too long.

On another occasion just before Christmas it was Canadian peacekeepers who came to the rescue of Bosnian psychiatric patients abandoned by hospital staff. We all remember the television images of those helpless people in a field outside the hospital, some without clothes, all unable to care for themselves. Had it not been for our peacekeepers those people may not be alive today.

Those are but two of the highlights in a war that has been raging for over three years. However noble and brave those acts were, we must accept that tensions are rising. It appears as though all sides are getting frustrated with what they see as the status quo. They are beginning to take their frustrations out on our peacekeepers.

This past weekend we learned of two incidents in which the lives of our Canadian soldiers were placed in jeopardy. One of those incidents took place in a so-called protected area in Croatia, and the other in a peacekeeper's camp in Visoko, outside Sarajevo. These events follow several others which have taken place over the past two months.

I am sure that members of the House recall that Canadian peacekeepers were held at gun point and endured a mock execution in Bosnia at the hands of Serb soldiers not long ago. We also recall that they were detained by Croation soldiers in Gospic at approximately the same time. It has only been a few weeks since Canadian peacekeepers were caught in the middle of a shootout between Bosnian Muslim and Croat warriors.

Canadians are extremely sensitive people. We are propelled by a desire to help people in need. That is why we cannot bear to witness the daily suffering and tragedy in Bosnia and Croatia. That is why we sent Canadian peacekeepers to those two countries. We felt that we could help put an end to the suffering of the innocent victims of war. However we must decide whether our desire to help the people of Bosnia and Croatia is more important to us than placing the lives of Canadian soldiers in jeopardy.

The decision to remove Canadian peacekeepers from Bosnia and Croatia is a difficult one. The situation in Croatia while serious is not nearly as volatile as that in Bosnia and Hercegovina. There is a role for the UN to play there. Efforts demand to be redefined.

While I am concerned that the departure of our peacekeepers from Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina may result in increased hostilities in the region and place the lives of my friends and relatives and jeopardy, I can no longer support any initiative in which Canadian soldiers are often used as human shields separating warring factions.

There are also fiscal implications. As everyone is well aware our country's pockets are not overflowing with money. We have a serious debt and deficit problem that needs to be addressed. We must assess whether we can actually afford, not just the missions in Bosnia and Croatia which last year alone cost us

approximately $120 million and where we have more than 2,000 peacekeepers but other missions around the world where we have additional Canadian peacekeepers.

I am of the opinion that we must review and redefine peacekeeping altogether before we agree to participate in future peacekeeping missions. This review of peacekeeping operations should take place at the international level within the context of the United Nations. Perhaps at the same time we could come up with some suggestions on how to make all UN operations more effective. However that is a debate that can be reserved for another day.

I submit that we should no longer risk the safety of Canadian troops. Nor should we continue to place a financial burden on Canadian taxpayers by footing what is amounting to be a rather expensive venture.

Members will by now know that this is not a decision I have reached lightly. I urge my colleagues to give this their utmost consideration so that we may find the best possible solution for Canadians first and foremost.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Particularly after a speech like that one members do not have to put questions to the member; they can just make comments during the remaining time.

[Simon de Jong, NDP, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the hon. member. I understand he is the first person born in Croatia to be a member of the Canadian Parliament. I sincerely congratulate him on that.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Simon de Jong, NDP, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

When we look at the history of the Croatian people I suspect we will find that the first ones were some of the earlier explorers of the St. Lawrence and other parts of this continent. The Croatian people have historically been known to be a great seafaring people. Descendants of the Croatian people can be found throughout the world. They have that in my common with my people from Holland. Holland was also a great seafaring nation and continues to be.

I am somewhat dismayed, however, at the suggestion and the conclusion of the hon. member. Understanding the frustrations that we all feel and that Canadians feel when we read about Canadian troops being mishandled and their lives being threatened while attempting to deliver humanitarian aid, the initial reaction is to get the heck out of there. We are trying to do good yet our lives are being threatened and we are being humiliated. In the end sober second thought has to decide what course we are going to take.

I hope before the government decides to act that it uses the intelligence network I am sure is operating in Bosnia-Hercegovina. As I understand it, it takes all the existing information and intelligence available to come to a basic conclusion or understanding.

If we remove Canadian troops and UN troops what will the results be? Will the result be a further and greater holocaust? What if our intelligence indicates that it will be? Even though that thin and inadequate UN line keeps some semblance of order and in its own way prevents a total holocaust from occurring, surely we have no other choice but to stay in there.

Can the hon. member tell us if he has any other information on which to base his opinion?

[Janko Peric, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as my hon. colleague knows at the present time our role is not acceptable over there. It is a very weak role. Only under different conditions would I support UN troops in the former Yugoslavia. Otherwise I am in full support of pulling them out and bringing our Canadian soldiers back home.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to say a few words today on this very important and historic debate. I think we owe a great credit to our Prime Minister for showing leadership in reforming the House. Not only are we dealing with an historic tragedy in Europe. I think we are dealing with some history in this very Parliament. I appreciate the chance to participate in this new openness.

As I prepared for this brief intervention I attempted to boil down the situation as much as I could. I doubt that very many of us are experts in international affairs, but nonetheless we have a responsibility to our fellow citizens to make intelligent and well considered decisions.

It is a particular privilege for me to say a few words because the late Right Hon. Lester B. Pearson was the former member for Algoma. By the end of today all members will know that Mr. Pearson was instrumental in the very formation of peacekeeping missions by the UN. He won the Noble prize in 1957 for his leadership in the Suez Canal crisis. That kind of leadership exhibited by Canada and Mr. Pearson then requires that we show leadership at this time. Canada's stature in the world as a peacemaker goes unquestioned.

This crisis I believe provides us with an opportunity. The tragedy that is occurring in the former Yugoslavia can at the same time, like Suez, be an opportunity for us to find new solutions. We certainly do not want to see this kind of thing happening over and over around the world. We cannot co-ordinate conflict but we can certainly co-ordinate and plan our response to conflict.

The situation in the world is such that the nature of conflict is changing. Unfortunately we are seeing much more ethnic fight-

ing and religious fighting. Because of the nature of the general change in conflict it requires we change our approach to solving these kinds of problems. I would not dare presume to speak for Mr. Pearson, but I would suggest that if he were here he would say we have to reinvent our approach to peacekeeping given the situation we face.

I would recommend to my colleagues a report published in February 1993 by the other place. It was a report of the standing Senate committee on foreign affairs entitled "Meeting New Challenges: Canada's response to a new generation of peacekeeping". It is excellent reading and contains some very forward thinking ideas. I make a suggestion to the House. We recognize that in April there is a decision point for our country in terms of whether we stay or not stay. The rotation involved in Srebenica is really not directly involved in our decision with respect to April.

We also have a decision to make or delay until November. Our commitment in the former Yugoslavia is in six-month increments. This is the negotiated arrangement that all member nations have with the UN.

I suggest that because the government has made a commitment to review our foreign affairs policies and our defence policies, which will likely come to a conclusion by this fall, and because we want to involve Canadians in those consultations, as we are doing with the budget and the efforts by the finance minister to involve Canadians, I believe we will see public consultations.

We need to have a partial moratorium on Canada's involvement in the former Yugoslavia. I am not suggesting a withdrawal from the region. I am only suggesting that a decision be made by our minister to withdraw our troops from Bosnia to Croatia from this spring until this fall.

Our commitment to the NATO forces there is in six-month increments. I believe we need to give Canadians a little bit of breathing room when it comes to our involvement not only in Bosnia but in peacekeeping in general.

It is my recommendation to the House that even though there are four options, one being to withdraw entirely from the region, another to simply withdraw from Bosnia but stay in Croatia, we could keep the status quo stable at our base in Bosnia and in Croatia, or we could augment our forces.

I believe that only the second and third are options for us right now and that the second is the one we should opt for which is to withdraw our troops into Croatia.

The review we will be holding in Canada over this next six to eight months is very important for the long term. I would not want to see our troops in a situation that could blow up when we do not have a thoughtfully considered place in the peacekeeping or peacemaking efforts of the world. When you consider that we are the third largest contingent over there, I really have to question how much say we have in what is going on.

I recognize that there is a serious humanitarian element to this if we remove troops from Bosnia. There is a lot of important work that needs to be done in Croatia in support of the humanitarian effort and there are other nations that need to take their turn at this very important task.

By withdrawing our troops from Bosnia and moving them to Croatia we can send a subtle but important message to our allies and to the UN that our own role as a peacekeeping nation is under review. It recognizes there is very little effort being made by the protagonists to come to a peaceful compromise. Canada can show its leadership by sending a strong message that we are looking seriously at our role as peacemakers in this world.

We want to give Canadians through this next six to eight months an honest opportunity to see how our troops are deployed, how we commit our Canadian tax dollars to peacemaking around the world because Canada has never shirked its responsibility. However, maybe it is time for others to come forward. We are all grateful to our troops for their efforts in all peacekeeping theatres, especially in the former Yugoslavia, but we do not want to see them in a situation that may blow up and soon be out of control.

I remind the House that we had great leadership with Mr. Pearson back in the late fifties. If Canada wishes to maintain that role-and I am sure our new Minister of Foreign Affairs is up to the task as is our entire government-it does not mean that we have to endanger our troops in a very volatile situation while we review our place as peacekeepers in the world.

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Peterborough, ON]

Madam Speaker, I really enjoyed what the member had to say. I wonder if any member of the Reform Party has any comments on it.

[An hon. member]

Where are they? They are not here.

[An hon. member]

Was that a question or a comment?

[The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)]

It is a comment. Are there any further questions or comments? Resuming debate.