Debates of Jan. 27th, 1994

International Maritime Organization

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Over the last four years the government paid a housing allowance of more than $400,000 to a UN bureaucrat working for the International Maritime Organization. In the dying days of the Conservative administration the government further agreed to pay up to $12,000 a month, for a total of $580,000, in housing allowances for the same official for the next four years.

My question for the Minister of Finance is this. At a time when thousands of Canadians are homeless, will the Liberal government reverse this Conservative decision that gives this UN official the equivalent of about $500,000 a year?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Shame on the Tories.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, it does not help when you mess up your preamble, does it.

I will take the question as notice and I will certainly speak to the Minister of Foreign Affairs. I can assure the member that we are dedicated to reversing a great many Conservative decisions.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the recent musings of this government that it may move to eliminate double-dipping has been appreciated and applauded I think by all Canadians, and certainly on this side of the House.

Will the government move to eliminate this example of triple-dipping as well?

[The Speaker]

I am not sure to whom the member is directing his question.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Ray Speaker.

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, York West, ON]

Let Ray answer it.

[The Speaker]

Order. Would the hon. member just repeat the question.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

I will speak slowly. Will the government move to eliminate this example of triple-dipping from the government as well?

[The Speaker]

I think that is for the Minister of Finance.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I am told by my colleague the Solicitor General that we will certainly be dealing with that and I think that my preamble answers the question.

Cigarette Smuggling

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

The Prime Minister said yesterday that he was ready to consider lowering taxes on tobacco products, unilaterally if he had to, in order to put an end to the smuggling that is causing problems in Quebec and Ontario and the Minister of Finance declared that lower taxes would help stop the smuggling.

I ask the minister if she concurs with the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance on the necessity of lowering those taxes?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, my first obligation is to protect the health of Canadians. The smuggling of tobacco products is also a health problem.

You know that about 300 children start smoking each day. Tobacco smoking also causes 40,000 deaths a year in Canada. Therefore, I feel it is absolutely essential that we convince all Canadians that they should stop smoking.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if I understand correctly, the minister is in favour of maintaining the tax. Therefore, since she does not agree with her government, what would she recommend to stop the increasing number of young people who smoke contraband cigarettes?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we are very concerned with the problems of contraband and cigarette smuggling.

The government and I as Minister of Health are extremely concerned with smoking and the effect it has on the health of Canadians. Not only do young children start smoking every day, but those who purchase cigarettes on the black market do not pay the taxes which help us fund the health care system. And, believe me, we are very much in need of as many dollars as possible to fight the kinds of problems that are caused by smoking.

Auditor General's Report

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence.

On January 25 the minister told the House that he is seeking further clarification on the discrepancy between the accounting principles of his department and those of the Auditor General. Also on January 25, when the minister was asked about civil servant accountability in his department, the minister stated:

I do not think that is a question that should be addressed to me. That is a question for government, and I do not know who can answer that.

The minister says that he is not responsible for the actions taken by the civil servants in his department. On this basis, could the minister explain to this House his concept of ministerial accountability?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member will realize that the way the supplementary question was asked by his colleague left some in doubt as to what he was actually trying to get at. No one disputes the fact that public servants report to their political masters as elected and members of the government.

With respect to the actual question on costing, which is serious, I know the hon. member would like to get to the bottom of the differences which we feel exist between DND accounting and the Auditor General. If the House will give leave early next week I will make our report public and table the document here in the House so all can see the Department of National Defence's reasoning. We have nothing to hide.

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a supplemental for the Minister of National Defence.

It was only yesterday the Prime Minister explained to this House that sometimes the figures of the Auditor General are misleading.

Does the minister believe that in this case the Auditor General has again misled the House?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister was referring to the same discrepancy between what we feel are accurate costing figures. I think he did a very good job at explaining in graphic terms the difference between our concept of how these costs should be arrived at and that of the Auditor General.

As members of the government we are quite entitled to have legitimate disputes with whomever about accounting methods.

Immigration

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration.

The inquiry by professor James Hathaway of Toronto on the Immigration and Refugee Board, commissioned by his own department, concluded this week that the minister is failing in his duty, that the board is disregarding the most elementary rules of fairness toward refugee claimants, and that incompetent commissioners have made dubious decisions based on questionable grounds.

When is the minister going to reform the board to restore its credibility? What does he intend to do about decisions already made by these incompetent commissioners?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question the hon. member raises.

Late last year we had an opportunity to make our first appointments to the Immigration Refugee Board. We wanted to assure ourselves that the government meant what it said when we were going to bring back integrity and competence, not only to government but to the appointments of boards and commissions under the government.

With respect to the Immigration Refugee Board we made 33 appointments which were heralded across the country with very positive accolades. In fact the hon. member himself said that the government was on the right track and improved the Immigration Refugee Board.

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the media were saying today that the board is a privileged haunt of patronage appointees and incompetents. Could the minister commit himself, today, to changing the rules of appointment, so they are based on qualification rather than on political affiliation?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I just finished saying that the hon. member actually applauded the first appointments that we made, as did the Reform Party of Canada.

What we have laid down is an unprecedented consultation process with respect to the Immigration Refugee Board. We consulted with NGOs across the country. We consulted with lawyers across the country. We consulted with advocates across the country.

Even before the Hathaway report was tabled this week, I suggested as minister we should elaborate that system of consultation with the view of setting up committees of interested Canadians from a variety of disciplines to begin to vet a number of names that come through the system and to recommend individuals who would be capable of discharging the responsibilities and the important mandate of the Immigration Refugee Board.

The hon. member should also distinguish what took place in December from what took place for nine years under the Conservative Government of Canada.

Yugoslavia

[David Berger, Liberal, Saint-Henri—Westmount, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

I believe Canadians would insist that as a complement to our military role in the former Yugoslavia we contribute to the efforts to arrive at a negotiated settlement.

Could the minister tell us whether the government plans to take a more active role in diplomacy? As part of our contribution to the negotiations, would the minister consider convening a meeting of knowledgeable Canadians to explore ways to bring an end to the conflict in the former Yugoslavia?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his questions and for his interesting suggestions.

I would like to indicate that a diplomatic avenue should be pursued to complement the tremendous contributions of Canadian forces and the humanitarian aid that we are bringing to the area.

I have been in touch with our ambassador in Geneva and have conveyed to him our feelings following the debate that took place in the House, that every avenue has to be explored in order to bring peace to the area.

With regard to the suggestion to bring a number of prominent Canadians to advise and assist us, I want to remind the House that there will not only be a parliamentary committee struck to review our foreign policy in which parliamentarians in a traditional way will ask witnesses to appear before it, but in keeping with our promises in the red book we will hold a two-day national forum at the end of March to review our foreign policy.

It is in that context that people across the country could be invited to participate and give us their advice.