Debates of Nov. 14th, 1994

Petitions

[Paddy Torsney, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise with several sets of petitions.

The first set has about 50 names petitioning the government to recognize and address the concerns related to the Young Offenders Act and amend the Criminal Code of Canada.

[Paddy Torsney, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have also a set of petitions relating to the statutory foundation for witness relocation program. There are about 50 signatures.

[Paddy Torsney, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I also have the honour to present petitions related to the steel accord. Whereas the Canadian steel industry directly provides over 35,000 jobs in the production of primary steel and iron, and in steel pipe and tube, the petition urges the government to support the efforts of Canada's steel industry and specifically to work toward a Canada-U.S. sectoral steel accord which would ensure fair rules and procedure in steel trade. This petition contains several hundred names.

[Paddy Torsney, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the remaining petitions relate to killer cards, calling on the government to ban killer cards and make sure they do not come into the country any longer.

This petition contains several hundred names.

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36, I have three duly executed and signed petitions representing the views of some of my constituents that I would like to present to the House.

The first calls on the government to enforce the existing provisions of the Criminal Code prohibiting assisted suicide. It also asks that no changes be made to those provisions that would sanction or allow assisted suicide.

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the second petition calls on the government to maintain the status quo with regard to same sex relationships.

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the third petition calls on the government to act immediately to extend protection to the unborn child by amending the Criminal Code to extend the same protection enjoyed by born human brings to unborn human beings.

On behalf of these concerned constituents I am pleased to table these petitions in the House.

[Beryl Gaffney, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a petition bearing about 30 signatures. These people believe that crimes committed against society by young offenders are on a serious rise and young offenders go virtually unpunished due to protection under the Young Offenders Act.

These people believe that we should revise our laws concerning young offenders by empowering the courts to prosecute and punish the young law breakers who are terrorizing our society by releasing their names and lowering the age limit to allow prosecution to meet the severity of the crime.

Questions On The Order Paper

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, Question No. 57 will be answered today.

Question No. 57-

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

During the last fiscal year, what expenses relating to projects over $1,000 were unaccounted for by the Canadian International Development Agency; what is the list of projects to which the unaccounted expenses pertained; and what is the explanation for each unaccounted expense?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

No projects are left unaccounted for by CIDA.

CIDA's country to country projects are all managed within policies and procedures that ensure CIDA obtains a full accounting for funds paid to executing agencies during the life of projects and at the conclusion of projects.

All CIDA's country to country projects are over $1,000 and disbursements relating to these projects are made according to the terms and conditions of a contract or contribution agreement signed between CIDA and an executing agent. The terms and conditions also define how and when the executing agent will account for the expenditures pertaining to the project.

Subsequently each invoice, claim or financial report received is verified against the contract or the contribution to ensure it is in compliance with the terms and conditions and is then certified by the manager responsible for the project. In some instances the agency also hires public accounting firms to carry out audits of executing agents to ensure that expenditures submitted for payment are in compliance with the terms and conditions of the contract or contribution agreement and are properly accounted for.

Starred Questions

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, would you be so kind as to call Starred Question No. 78.

I would ask that the answer to this question be printed in Hansard as if read due to the length of the answer.

*Question No. 78-

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

With respect to the new projects announced for the current year under the strategic initiatives program, ( a ) which programs have experienced cuts as a result of the reallocation of funds within the 1994 budget, ( b ) how much was cut from each program and ( c ) what is the breakdown of the cuts by province and territory?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

(a) the employment and insurance program, (b) $90 million, and (c) the budget impact by province of this redirection cannot be provided as the funds were not directly repatriated from regional allocations.

It is important to note the funds that will be spent in support of these strategic initiatives will, to a large extent, offset the impact on provinces that may have resulted in the creation of this special budget.

In the 1994 federal budget $800 million was provided over 1995-96 and 1996-97 so that innovative approaches to training and getting people back to work could be tried in co-operation with the provinces and territories. This government is committed to improving the job opportunities for Canadians and has, in partnership with the provinces and territories, developed strategic initiatives projects which are ready for implementation this fiscal year. This is why funds from existing budgets have been redirected to support the advancement of these important projects.

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I ask that the remaining questions be allowed to stand.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Shall the remaining questions stand?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Standing Committee On Industry

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member for Richmond-Wolfe has about five minutes left to conclude his remarks.

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Including the minutes taken up by the hon. member for Broadview-Greenwood, Mr. Speaker?

[The Deputy Speaker]

We will give Mr. Leroux one minute more, naturally.

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as we resume this debate, I would like to recap briefly what was said in the first part, which is extremely important and deals with the impact of regional development, and federal involvement in regional development in particular. Let me remind this House, first of all, that, between 1974 and 1984, both sets of economic and regional development agreements commonly called ERDAs have had an extremely negative impact on peripheral regions, that is to say regions outside of major centers that monopolized 46 per cent of the total budget in terms of investments.

I would like to push on a little further with this demonstration, my ultimate goal being to bring the federal government to understand that it must withdraw completely from regional development in Quebec and recognize the province as prime mover with respect to development. To continue with my demonstration, by integrating the regional offices known as FORD-Q with the Department of Industry and turning them into business service centres, the Liberal government is creating a single window for information on federal, provincial and municipal programs and services in Quebec, the sole purpose of

which, in our view, is to emphasize Canadian regional development policies with the catastrophic results that we know, results noted in several studies.

So, as a member of the industry committee, it is my duty to denounce this contempt displayed by the federal government for Quebec's regional development policies. Quebec, the State of Quebec, has had a regional development process for over 40 years, across that is far more effective and better adapted to the needs of fringe regions.

I repeat that today, we have a series of general agreements involving 95 regional municipalities that have done their own strategic development studies in terms of the development of SMEs and industry. These general agreements reflect how important it is to be close to the fringe areas, as opposed to following federal imperatives based on a mythical vision of what industrial development ought to be in Canada.

Speaking as a member of Industry Committee, I support the dissenting opinion of my Bloc colleagues, which includes recommendation No. 20. I support the dissenting opinion, including recommendation No. 20 of this committee which is intended to enable the federal government to interfere with the definition of the objectives and portfolio structure of the assets of the QFL Solidarity Fund. It is entirely unacceptable that the committee should recommend that the federal government interfere with the definition of the objectives and orientation of labour-sponsored venture capital corporations established under provincial legislation.

More about duplication and overlap. The new mission of the Federal Office of Regional Development, which has now been merged with the Department of Industry, is to all intents and purposes that of a service centre for business.

However, this is what the Department of Industry has to say about the purpose of the FORD: Taking into account its limited financial resources, it plays a major role by offering SMEs services including information, analyses and strategic assistance. In Quebec we already have the wherewithal to provide such services to SMEs, including exporter SMEs, through the General Secretariat for Foreign Affairs of Quebec, which provides entrepreneurs with information and a very detailed guide that has an excellent reputation among entrepreneurs active on international markets.

In fact, legislation passed in Quebec in 1979, the Act respecting land use planning and development, which created regional municipalities, the so-called MRCs, provided the structure for such services. With a council in each of the 95 MRCs, economic development corporations and industrial commissioners, it was possible to start a development process involving interaction between the SMEs and all the various regions and microregions.

According to a study by Marc-Urbain Proulx, an expert on economic development in Quebec, in a market economy whose many weaknesses are compensated for by more concerted action by authorities at all three levels of government, development plans for MRCs in Quebec are mainly aimed at integrating a variety of activities.

What causes duplication, overlap and poor management of funds is the failure to recognize existing structures. In this context, a parallel network of 13 regional offices, or FORD-Qs, in Quebec is unjustified, constitutes duplication of services and is basically squandering public funds. This is an example, among existing direct assistance to small business and direct funding support to small and medium-sized businesses. Liberal members from Quebec should advise their colleagues of the existence of such a major development and financial assistance structure for small and medium-sized businesses at the regional level, and I am coming to this.

Quebec has its own regional development secretariat under the responsibility of a minister of state for regional development. This House must realize that there is no reason for federal involvement in regional development. Federal involvement complicates greatly government intervention to help small and medium-sized businesses. Regional development boards have been in existence for over 30 years and, with tools such as regional initiatives funds and business assistance funds-our suggestion is not off the wall; it is the same kind of instrument-these boards provide direct assistance to small business.

The development secretariats I referred to earlier can also assist small business with tools such as local initiatives funds and decentralized job creation funds. In the field, other stakeholders actively support small and medium-sized businesses. Take the Solidarity Fund, the industrial development corporation and the regional investment corporation for example. Note the smooth industrial development in the Sherbrooke area, where small and medium-sized businesses from nine municipalities have trade relations and agreements with the United States, particularly the northeastern states, including the city of Hartford, have access to markets and prosper.

To conclude, out of solidarity with the Quebec government and state and in support of the initiative of the Quebec minister of state for regional development, the Bloc Quebecois asks that the Liberal government withdraw from regional development and transfer to Quebec the federal regional development envelope.

[Patrick Gagnon, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, again, they would have us believe that the federal government is doing absolutely nothing in the regions. When I hear the opposition's demagogy, I find that it hurts our ears to hear the member opposite say that the Federal Office of Regional Development has done nothing, the Federal Business Development Bank has done nothing, the Prime Minister of Canada, who is now in China, has done

nothing for regional economic development and especially to advance social and economic development in Quebec.

As a member from the rural hinterland of Quebec, I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, and I find it regrettable that the opposition fails to mention it in their propaganda, that there is a serious lack of co-ordination and co-operation among various provincial bodies involved in small-business development.

People in Quebec, and especially in the regions, have denounced the Caisse populaire Desjardins, which has over $500 million, for not lending enough to small-business people in the regions. One would say that the opposition is taking an urban point of view which does not reflect the socio-economic reality of the regions. For example, they do not realize the major investments we have made in important enterprises in the regions, including in forestry. Take the Eastern Quebec Development Plan, for example.

Six thousand small businesses and workers commended the Government of Canada for what it is doing, its serious approach and business plan, and that is no joke. If there is a lesson to be learned from this, it is that the Government of Canada is welcome because it is a good manager. Unfortunately, all we hear from the opposition is that there are too many players and unfortunately the provincial level is not well co-ordinated.

Our area does not even have someone to go to foreign countries to promote the regions, because Quebec is doing a bad job and they should admit it.

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is obvious that the hon. member for Bonaventure-Îles-de-la-Madeleine does not know his region at all, since what he is demanding is, in fact, a settlement. I urge him to tell me if the Eastern Plan has indeed been renewed. They have been fussing with this plan for several months. Of course, the government did not see fit to respond to the first invitation last summer. It then kept putting off the meeting with Eastern producers. The last I heard, nothing has been settled regarding the Eastern Plan. The agreement has not even been renewed at this time.

In any case, for a member coming from Quebec and very familiar with regional tools like regional development councils, industrial associations, the general secretariat of foreign affairs, which make loans to businesses and work on domestic and international market development and prospecting with them- he knows full well that there is increasing co-operation in integrating structures, precisely because they decided that there were too many structures and players.

The underlying reason why the regions decided to analyze their economic development strengths and weaknesses was to come up with strategic development plans to be shared through an integrated forum called the regional economic development council. The purpose of this was to reduce the number of steps required, to make business and socio-economic development more efficient, to avoid overlap-within their own territory, to say nothing of federal involvement-to rationalize their own actions and structures.

The hon. member should know that these integration efforts will soon be stepped up in his own region. We do not need to create anew, as with the 13 FORD-Q information offices. Quebec already has integrated offices providing information, including export information, to small businesses and all stakeholders.

The Minister of Regional Development in Hull specifically said that this program would be helpful to small exporters. Quebec already has a recognized and appreciated organization which supports small exporters and gives them a complete kit on how to develop their own markets and foreign business plans.

That is duplication. People in Quebec, to convey to the federal government that if its goal is indeed to maximize the funds invested and provide real and effective support to small businesses, are sending the following message.

Why does the government not admit that the experience of the past 40 years in regional development-again, the development of all regions and not major centres-Forty-seven per cent of the amounts under recent agreements were invested in central regions. Why not admit that Quebec is the primary force in regional development and that its experience-and that of all its people-is concentrated at the regional development level, as the hon. member for Bonaventure-Îles-de-la-Madeleine should know? Who are the people working together at the regional development level? The same people he mentioned earlier: regional county municipality officials, mayors, socio-economic businesses, entrepreneurs, unions. This full integration of economic development players only makes them more efficient while reducing the number of action structures.

What is being proposed here? To create other action structures without integrating into existing structures. We cannot accept in good faith-

[John Manley, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I know it was previously raised that in his first remarks the member was not on topic. He is likewise off topic now. If there is any time for further-