Debates of Nov. 14th, 1994

Standing Committee On Industry

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to government motion No. 16 on the Second Report of the Standing Committee on Industry, for two important reasons.

Primarily, first of all, there is regional development. There is all the energy, efforts and action with respect to regional development in Quebec, and I am speaking about true regional development that will reach all the administrative regions in Quebec, not just the major centres or the large cities, but the furthest reaches of all administrative regions.

This is an exercise that has been going on in Quebec since 1984. It is a major exercise in defining regional development in the regions, and a series of framework agreements are now being signed, region by region, with respect to economic development.

I would simply like to tell my government colleagues across the way that regional development is Quebec's business and that it is in order to avoid duplication, in order to increase the efficiency of actions and investments in regional development that all the members of the Bloc Quebecois, the official opposition, are simply asking that the federal government withdraw from regional development in Quebec.

"The Bloc Québécois Members of Parliament on the Standing Committee on Industry are of the opinion that the Government of Quebec is in the best position to recognize the financing requirements of SMEs, and to develop and implement programs". So reads the first sentence in the dissenting report by the Bloc Quebecois members of Parliament on the Standing Committee on Industry, of which I am a member, studying access to financing for SMEs.

I therefore propose to take this opportunity to speak to government motion No. 16 in order to broaden the debate and thus express the dissent of the Bloc Quebecois, which continues and which is linked to the federal government's overall approach to regional development in Quebec.

The Bloc Quebecois is opposed to the interference of the federal government in regional development for two very specific reasons. First, because the federal government, instead of eliminating regional disparities, only made them worse, while precipitating the disintegration of peripheral regions, as its action was limited to central regions.

Let us be quite clear. I mentioned earlier that regional development in Quebec concerned all remote areas, and not central ones such as major cities. One master agreement after another is being signed with the Quebec government respecting the economic development of all areas. But such federal initiative has traditionally been limited to major urban centers and has literally caused the disintegration of peripheral regions, that is to say those regions outside of major urban centers.

Second, federal government initiatives within Quebec has been synonymous with the duplication of organizations. And my hon. colleagues know it full well. We all know of overlapping responsibilities and instances of horizontal and vertical duplication. They have been identified and the government even indicated it was prepared to eliminate this overlap and duplication in public administrations which are basically mismanaged since public funds are being squandered over various structures that serve essentially the same function. In time, this adds up, as we have seen, to billions of dollars and we end up today with a major deficit in the federal budget.

As for the disintegration of peripheral regions, I want to make something quite clear to our colleagues opposite. Since 1974, with the Liberals in power at the federal level, regional development was generally funded under federal-provincial agreements to which subsidiary agreements were added, as you know.

All these agreements covering the decade from 1974 to 1984 -these were 10-year contracts- totalled $1.8 billion, 26 per cent of which was earmarked for the greater Montreal region and 4 per cent for Quebec City. This means that 30 per cent of the total budget for this first set of so-called regional development agreements went to central regions. This first Canada-Quebec umbrella agreement for 1974-84 followed on the 1970 report by Higgins, Martin and Rénaud, which had been ordered in 1969, as you will surely recall, by the federal Department of Regional Economic Expansion, DREE, for the purpose of directing the federal government's activities for economic development in Quebec. So it meant a doubling of federal involvement in economic development in Quebec.

This report concluded that Quebec's economic weakness was due to the weakness of its only major centre, Montreal. As a result, the federal government's active involvement in Quebec in the 1970s set the tone for its approach to Quebec and did considerable harm to the Quebec government's regional development policies. The federal government sees a whole region or province as the focus of its regional development efforts. The federal government does not consider the geographic and demographic regions that make up a province.

From 1972 to 1984, regional development focused on certain growth centres. That was the approach. The way to a better distribution of wealth involved industrial solutions concentrated in urban areas. The policies adopted were disastrous for the outlying regions since the urban centres went a different way and it aggravated the rural crisis by draining workers, resources and capital.

I will explain the prime example which concerns the allocation of the budget and the corrective action that can be taken.

A second umbrella agreement was signed in 1984, in effect extending the first one for ten years. Knowing full well that outlying regions are breaking down, they renewed a $1.7 billion agreement for this period, allocating 36 per cent of the budget to Greater Montreal and 10 per cent to Quebec City. Between 1984 and 1994, the federal government increased its involvement in central regions to the detriment of outlying regions.

On the subject of regional development, it is important to respect the extraordinary dynamics between small and medium-sized businesses, municipalities and all stakeholders in the areas of education and health to organize a region in such a way as to prevent an exodus of our young people. This situation-the exodus of our young people and the aging of our population-is one that the hon. member is experiencing in his own region and that is also being experienced in other regions of Canada.

The subsidiary agreements that make up this second Canada-Quebec agreement, such as the regional and economic development agreement signed in 1988, confirm the existing structural inequalities. Businesses are allowed to set up shop in and develop central regions where they will find a concentration of people, a market. For some businesses, it is better to be based in a densely-populated area with a market of 2 million people than to move to an outlying region.

As we are fully aware, small and medium-sized businesses have different distribution systems for their products. Exporting businesses, in particular, can be based outside major centres, since they can ship their exports by road or other types of transportation allowing them to set up shop elsewhere.

Quebec regions are in an advanced state of disintegration. The demographic weakening of outlying regions is symptomatic of the state of degradation in several regions. The population of outlying regions continues to decline dramatically, especially in rural areas, thus compromising the settlement and viability of these regions. You are aware that people in every region fight to keep plants, small businesses, schools and even whole villages from closing.

This legislation tabled by the new Liberal government to establish the Department of Industry is patterned on the centralizing principle which has always prevailed within that party, in that it provides the same rigid and heavily centralized structures, as well as national standards for the whole territory.

We will still have an across-the-board policy applying to all of the very large Canadian territory, regardless of the particular situation in the various regions.

Take a look at how program services and business services are split within the regional operations branch of the department. It says very clearly-and the member who tabled this motion should listen-in the development program of the Department of Industry, under the heading "Regional Offices", that: "This component establishes a general framework designed to promote excellence and competitiveness in every region of the country. Regional offices participate in the development of policies designed to promote the fulfilment of national objectives". We are back to square one, because these are precisely the national objectives which ruined remote regions in Quebec.

By integrating the federal offices of regional development and transforming them into service centres for Canadian businesses, the Liberal government creates a single window to provide information on federal, provincial and municipal programs and services in Quebec, with the objective of-

[Dennis Mills, Liberal, Broadview—Greenwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I listened carefully for the last 10 minutes to the member from the Bloc. We are on Motion No. 16 which talks about the industry report taking care of small business. We are halfway through the member's remarks and so far we have not had anything that is relevant to the message of that report.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

Hon. members have me at a bit of a disadvantage. I just came into the chair. It surely is not a point of order.

As there are a few minutes left, the hon. member could carry on now and continue after question period, since he will have some time left.

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that it hurts when we discuss regional development and refer specifically to small businesses in remote regions. This is what I am talking about. This is related to the motion tabled. It hurts the hon. member, but he is depriving me of some of the time allotted to me.

[The Speaker]

Order! I can assure the hon. member that he will be able to use all the time to which he is entitled.

It being 2 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(5) the House will now proceed to Statements by Members pursuant to Standing Order 31.

Federal Election

[Brenda Chamberlain, Liberal, Guelph—Wellington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in the past few weeks we have acknowledged the anniversary of the last federal election. We must never forget the volunteers who worked on the behalf of all candidates and all political parties throughout the election.

My campaign manager, Alex MacCrae, worked very hard on my behalf. His caring and enthusiasm always supported me and provided encouragement to the volunteers who knocked on doors, delivered brochures, telephoned and did all of the work associated with elections.

All of us are here today because of individuals who worked with endless energy on our behalf. Volunteers represent all ages and come from every background in order to elect their candidate. Whether we are elected or not we are all winners because of these people who are often strangers to us and who believe in us and in what we do.

Veterans

[Bernard Deshaies, Bloc, Abitibi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have just returned from a trip to Belgium and the Netherlands organized by the Department of Veteran Affairs as part of the Canada Remembers Program.

In connection with Remembrance Day, I wish to draw the attention of this House to the respect and gratitude expressed by the people of Belgium and the Netherlands at the various ceremonies I attended, which were held to commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of the liberation of their country by Canadian soldiers in October and November, 1944.

The Bloc Quebecois is proud to take part in events of this kind and, in so doing, ensure we will never forget the Quebecers and Canadians who gave their lives to defend and liberate these countries from the Nazi yoke.

May the memory of their supreme sacrifice help us avoid further armed conflicts and renew our attempts at reconciliation and peace.

Sunshine Village

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today marks the final day for which a court appeal can be launched against the Goat's Eye project at Sunshine Village ski resort. This project was approved in 1992 subject to endorsement by the Environment Assessment Review Panel, which was given.

In September 1993 Parks Canada and Sunshine executed a construction project agreement and a $100,000 bond was issued by Sunshine Village. In November a court injunction was sought by outside environmental groups to prevent further development. In January 1994 the Minister of Canadian Heritage halted development at Sunshine and requested the project be referred to a FEARO panel.

Sunshine Village then launched Federal Court action to enforce its contractual rights with Parks Canada. On October 13, 1994, the Federal Court of Canada ruled in favour of Sunshine Village, given that the environmental assessment provided for sensitive management of the ecosystem during construction.

On behalf of all Canadians who in good faith conduct legitimate business with the Government of Canada, I urge the Minister of Canadian Heritage not to launch an appeal against the Federal Court of Canada's earlier decision.

Donald Green And Leah Beddome

[Marlene Cowling, Liberal, Dauphin—Swan River, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize the accomplishments of two outstanding young people from rural Manitoba, Donald Green and Leah Beddome. Donald and Leah were among the 16 national winners of the Farm Credit Corporation's 4-H scholarship awards program. I am proud to note that Leah is from Rapid City in my riding of Dauphin-Swan River.

This is the first year of the program which has been established to assist rural youth and future Canadian farmers. The winners were selected based on essays submitted on one of three agricultural topics. For their efforts Leah and Donald each receive a $1,000 scholarship to pursue post-secondary education.

Leah and Donald are to be commended for their interest in and commitment to agriculture and rural Canada. I ask all members of the House to join with me in saluting the achievements of these young leaders of tomorrow.

Dr. Rusty McDonald

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate a resident of Oxford who was honoured with a distinguished award yesterday. My friend, Dr. Rusty McDonald, was inducted into the Canadian Agricultural Hall of Fame for his pioneering work and many years of service in the artificial insemination industry.

Dr. McDonald spearheaded developments in Oxford with the Oxford Holstein breeders AI unit and as general manager of the Western Ontario Breeders Inc. from which he retired in 1988.

Rusty graduated from the University of Guelph and received the Alumnus of Honour Award from that institution in 1979. Since his retirement Dr. McDonald has been executive director of the Canadian Association of Animal Breeders.

His nomination to the Canadian Agricultural Hall of Fame is in recognition of his leadership role in the development of research and policies which have guided the artificial insemination industry.

On behalf of all hon. members I congratulate Dr. McDonald.

Veterans

[Susan Whelan, Liberal, Essex—Windsor, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it was 50 years ago that Canadian soldiers of the second world war fought to liberate Belgium and bring peace to Europe.

Between October 1 and November 8, 1944, 6,367 Canadians were killed or wounded in the Battle of the Scheldt. From October 24 to November 7 of this year 60 Canadian veterans returned to Belgium and the Netherlands to attend commemorative services as part of the Canada Remembers Program. Over 38 events were held including a ceremony at Bergen-Op-Zoom, a parade at the Hickman Bridge and a church service in Knokke.

One overwhelming theme which rang through at each town and cemetery was the enormous admiration and respect the people of Belgium and the Netherlands have for our Canadian veterans.

1994 also commemorates the 80th anniversary of the beginning of World War I. Remembrance services were held at Vimy and Beaumont-Hamel to honour those who served in the first world war.

I ask all members to join with me and the Secretary of State for Veterans in remembering all Canadians who fought on behalf of our country. We ask you to salute the veterans who participated in the commemorative services for the Battle of the Scheldt.

Social Housing

[Jean-Paul Marchand, Bloc, Québec-Est, QC]

Mr. Speaker, social housing in this country is at risk. Tenants in social housing are faced with unprecedented threats from the federal government. In Canada, 1,200,000 households urgently need accommodation. However, the Liberal government has made cuts in social housing, leaving the neediest and tenants in sub-standard housing to fend for themselves. This government is spreading confusion and despair.

The Liberal government's failure to act and its withdrawal from social housing, as well as the planned 20 per cent increase in rental fees, will have serious consequences for low-income families. This Liberal government is even worse than the previous government. It is oblivious to poverty.

National Defence

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on Thursday of last week Bosanquet township workers were ditching Outer Drive which is their road boundary with Camp Ipperwash, owned by the Department of National Defence. This work was being done to remove illegal access, to prevent suspicious activities at Camp Ipperwash and to remove access for public safety because of possible unexploded ordinances on site.

Shots were fired close to the workers who removed themselves from the area. The OPP and RCMP have no jurisdiction within the camp. The township wants the Minister of National Defence to give this problem his highest priority. Two or three days of military presence will allow both parties to dig up illegal access roads while still maintaining the four legal access points.

Will the minister please give this issue his attention while it is a simple issue and before it escalates?

Bst

[John Richardson, Liberal, Perth—Wellington—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, recently I held my third town hall meeting in my riding. One of the concerns that was discussed at each meeting was the introduction of BST, bovine somatotropin.

I wonder if all members of the House are aware of what BST is and the effect it has on dairy cows. BST is a hormone that is injected into cows at regular intervals to increase their milk production. Normal dairy cows remain in full production for seven to nine years. However, BST injected cows have to be taken out of production after only two years. In addition, these animals are covered with red sores and in the end there is nothing left but skin and bones.

I share the concerns of dairy farmers in my riding who oppose artificial stimulation of cows and the resulting emaciation of these animals that is caused by the repeated injection of BST.

I call on all members of this House to encourage discussion on this issue. Milk is a natural, pure food and I believe that this image should be maintained in Canada.

Armed Forces

[Gar Knutson, Liberal, Elgin—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Speaker, traditionally nations have defined security by the size of their armies. However, the Liberal red book states: "A Liberal government will adopt a broader definition of national and international security, encompassing such goals as sustainable development, global economic prosperity, capable defence and the eradication of poverty and social inequality".

What this resolution is truly about is the need for Canada to look at the evolution of its security needs. Less and less we see the armed forces as a military combatant. More and more the armed forces must be viewed as a useful resource in times of public emergency, disaster and participation in international peacekeeping efforts.

The United Nations Security Council has stated that while the instability of the cold war is over, the non-military sources of instability, economic, social and humanitarian have become greater threats to peace and security.

Our armed forces have shown themselves adept at flexibility in the past. I encourage the minister of defence and this House to reflect on the need to evolve the Canadian forces further.

Fisheries

[Roger Simmons, Liberal, Burin—St. George's, NL]

Mr. Speaker, Canada and France have just successfully concluded a new fisheries agreement which, as it turns out, is a good deal for Canada, for Newfoundland, particularly for the Burin Peninsula, and for the town of Grand Bank especially. It gives south coast Newfoundland fishermen secure access for at least 10 years to lucrative scallops in French waters and it provides a stable

management regime to prevent the kind of overfishing by the French that we saw in the late 1980s.

It secures more than 100 jobs in the town of Grand Bank alone at a very difficult time, given the disastrous unemployment rate and the loss of the Hibernia work recently. It is not the answer to every woe, but it does put an end to a long festering conflict between the two countries and does mark the beginning of an era of co-operation between France and Canada on fisheries as well as on aquaculture, tourism, environmental protection and transportation.

I congratulate my friends, the secretary of state for fisheries and the minister of fisheries on bringing this about.

[Translation]

International Trade

[Bernard St-Laurent, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is becoming more and more obvious that Team Canada's trade mission in Asia is a vast propaganda effort. The people of Quebec and Canada are led to believe that this mission has generated billions of dollars in contracts for Canada and Quebec businesses.

But the reality is altogether different. Many of these contracts were signed ages ago and Team Canada's mission has nothing to do with securing them. One example of this is the agreement in principle between Bombardier and Power Corporation signed last April.

But there is worse. Several pseudo-contracts rest on nothing but agreements in principle and letters of intent. There are actually three times fewer firm contracts than the government claims, with its far-fetched figures.

As Confucius would say: "A rolling bicycle gathers no moss".

Penticton Indian Band

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I bring to the attention of the House a very serious situation. For the past two weeks the Penticton Indian band has blocked access to the Apex mountain ski resort in my riding. This is just the latest in a series of roadblocks by the band since 1990. Each time it happens a major source of winter employment is further crippled by the flames of conflict that are fanned on both sides.

We need a lasting solution to the underlying historic problems in this situation if we are to prevent a conflict such as we witnessed at Oka. For two weeks I have repeatedly tried to contact the minister of Indian affairs to discuss with him the concerns of my constituents, both native and non-native. To date he has not seen fit to respond, while with each passing day the crisis edges toward irreconcilable conflict. I challenge the minister to be a help rather than a hindrance in this situation. His inaction will only make a resolution more difficult.

I call upon him to help bring the parties together and to be part of the solution rather than a part of the problem.

Aboriginal Veterans

[Len Taylor, NDP, The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pay tribute to aboriginal veterans.

On Friday, November 11, at eleven o'clock in the morning, I attended a Remembrance Day ceremony hosted by the Poundmaker Cree First Nation in honour of all aboriginal veterans. It unveiled a a special memorial cairn and laid wreaths following a Remembrance Day service.

I congratulate the people of Poundmaker for taking this initiative. At the same time I take this opportunity to remind the people of Canada of the great contribution aboriginal people made to Canada's armed forces and their participation in World War I, World War II and the Korean conflict.

I also remind the federal government that aboriginal veterans have grievances that have not yet been acknowledged by the Department of Veterans Affairs.

I hope that before next Remembrance Day these grievances are properly and adequately addressed.

Pulp And Paper Agreement

[Anna Terrana, Liberal, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the federal government entered into an administrative agreement on pulp and paper with the province of British Columbia.

Through this agreement, co-signed by the B.C. minister of environment, lands and parks, the federal regulations under the Fisheries Act and the Canadian Environmental Protection Act will be administered in harmony with British Columbia's laws on liquid effluents from pulp and paper mills. It is an important example of this government's commitment to harmonizing its efforts with all provinces and territories to improve Canada's environment.

This is a win, win, win arrangement. Taxpayers win by having a more streamlined government. Management and pulp and paper workers win by having streamlined reporting and other procedures. The environment wins by having policies and procedures that are strong and consistent.

This agreement also meets an important objective of the Canada-British Columbia action plan on improving the efficiency of the federation.

St. Lawrence River

[Nick Discepola, Liberal, Vaudreuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, more than two thirds of the population of Quebec live along the St. Lawrence River and, for this reason alone, more should be known about this river. That is why we have undertaken in the St. Lawrence Action Plan, Vision 2000, to develop information tools on the St. Lawrence River intended for the general public.

I am pleased to announce that three new pages of the St. Lawrence environmental atlas have been published, describing the river's shores, environment and inhabitants in an easy to understand presentation.

These atlas pages deal particularly with the St. Lawrence at the heart of the inhabited area (population and shore occupation), its many and varied habitats (saline and freshwater ecosystems) as well as the shapes and dynamics of the St. Lawrence shores from soft embankments to scarped shorelines. These pages were presented at the 29th congress of the science teachers' association of Quebec, held from October 13 to 15 in Montreal.

Collège Militaire Royal De Saint-Jean

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, last week, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs received a proposal from the new government of Quebec that improved last July's agreement in principle for maintaining the military college in Saint-Jean.

The minister rejected Quebec's offer of a major financial contribution out of hand, on the pretext that it was provincial interference in federal jurisdiction. The cat is finally out of the bag, since according to the minister, the purpose, as Ottawa now admits, is to demilitarize the college in Saint-Jean.

How can the minister have the nerve to claim that the Quebec government is responsible for closing the military college in Saint-Jean when it was his government, in its first budget, which decided to close it?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, to answer the Leader of the Opposition in the same

terms, how can he have the nerve to ask us who is closing the college, when we have had an agreement since mid-July ensuring the survival of the college in Saint-Jean, but which the Government of Quebec does not want to implement? The Government of Quebec refuses to implement an agreement signed by the former government and it is the Government of Quebec which must bear the blame for closing it if it is closed.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, let us return to the facts. The college in Saint-Jean is a military college; the government decided to close the military college and make it into a shell of a college, a sort of language school.

In light of the rejection of Quebec's proposal, I ask the minister if we are to understand that the decision to close the military college in Saint-Jean is not budgetary, as claimed, but rather political; is it not based on the desire to exclude Quebec and its institutions from the training of French speaking officers in the Canadian Forces?