Debates of Nov. 3rd, 1994

Canadian Wheat Board Act

[The Deputy Speaker]

I declare the motion carried.

When shall the bill be read a third time? At the next sitting of the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I could not hear your question; I wonder if you could go back to it. Did you ask when shall the bill be read a third time, and what was the answer?

I ask that with consent it be later this day. I did not hear you ask the question because of the noise. I think you would find consent of the House to have the third reading of the bill later this day.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is there unanimous consent to have the bill read a third time later today?

[Some hon. members]

Yes.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Deputy Speaker]

There is objection to the third reading of the bill today.

Order In Council Appointments

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table, in both official languages, a number of order in council appointments which were made by the government.

Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 110(1), these are deemed referred to the appropriate standing committees, a list of which is attached.

South Africa

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Secretary of State (Latin America and Africa)]

Mr. Speaker, six months after historic elections in South Africa, I am taking this moment to speak about the government's interim and new program which Canada is beginning to implement in South Africa.

As members know, Canada has a long and honourable tradition of support to the people of South Africa. What a joy it was for those of us Canadians who were privileged to participate in the election process of April and May.

However, South Africa needs constant support if it is to successfully emerge as a democratic society, prosper economically, and develop the potential of its population as a whole.

The transition from apartheid and conflicts to reconciliation and rebuilding will bring new challenges.

I am presenting to the House today an outline of Canada's new three-year bilateral program with an allocation of up to $20 million for the next fiscal year.

In the past resources from the Canadian International Development Agency as well as from Canadian NGOs, churches, academia, businesses, professional groups and unions have been critical in facilitating the heroic strides of the South African people toward a more democratic society.

For a number of years we have worked with South African groups disadvantaged by apartheid to lay the basis for their involvement in their country's affairs.

CIDA has extended its special South Africa fund. This fund will next year make available $2.5 million to Canadian organizations which have already established strong linkages with partners in South Africa.

With the end of apartheid and the inauguration of Nelson Mandela as president, the Canadian government has acted promptly to re-establish bilateral relations in a number of areas. We have extended the general preferential tariff to South Africa. A Canadian trade office was opened in Johannesburg in February 1994 during a visit by the Minister for International Trade.

Subsequently Canadian exports to South Africa for the first six months of the year were about 75 per cent higher than they were for the same period last year. A significant portion of these exports is in the form of manufactured and high technology Canadian products.

Throughout the transition period there has been a strong level of interest in Canadian models of government and experiences. This interest continues.

In July of this year the South African minister of constitutional development led a high level delegation of ministers, MPs and academics to study our system. This week another group of South African public servants is visiting Canada to acquaint themselves with how we develop our foreign policy.

Moreover, South Africa asked for and was given advice on various issues, especially on the refugee status claims processing system it is setting up. Canada offered to help South Africa become an active member of several multilateral organizations.

For our efforts and our expertise Canada has been singled out. On September 1 South Africa's minister of arts, culture, science and technology, Dr. B.S. Ngubane, speaking in his country's Parliament acknowledged the contribution through Canada's International Development Research Centre to the creation of a science and technology initiative.

The government has made a commitment to open the process of foreign policy making to all Canadians. In May of this year we held a major consultation in Ottawa and invited representatives of academia, the business community, church groups, unions and developmental non-government organizations to discuss priorities for the new South Africa. Their input has been vital in establishing the four key priorities for the next three years in South Africa.

The first priority is governance. We will continue with our $10 million public service policy project funded by CIDA and managed by the International Development Research Centre. In addition we will begin more intensive training of senior civil servants and government officials from among groups previously excluded from top government positions.

The second priority is human resource training to improve the education sector and correct the past injustices of apartheid. As we all know, it is critical to raise the general skill level of the population. To work efficiently, a society needs a more open and tolerant political culture.

Third, we will have strengthened civil society. With the transition to a new government many of the old organizations which were organized around resistance now need to transform themselves into bodies which can represent their constituents in a more peaceful but effective manner. We will support them in making this transition.

The fourth priority will emphasize economic growth in South Africa with a particular focus on the participation of black business people in various sectors of the economy as well as the consolidation of Canadian linkages.

We believe that linking our four priorities with the help of all our Canadian partners is the only way Canada can ensure coherent, broad based development which will promote enduring peace and security in South Africa. We need to protect and nourish the South African beacon of hope on the African continent for the sake of all on that continent.

I thank all Canadians for their collaboration in this process.

[Philippe Paré, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of all the Bloc members, I am pleased to speak on the issue of South Africa. The Secretary of State is giving us this opportunity, this morning, with her outline of the new interim program Canada is beginning to implement in that country. We must welcome this new Canadian commitment very favourably. Indeed, South Africa needs the constant support of the international community to be able to pursue successfully its democratization process.

As I mentioned in this House on April 26, while for the first time, Blacks in all the villages, towns and cities of South Africa were starting to vote in order to elect representatives, as parliamentarians, we cannot remain indifferent to the testimony of an elderly citizen who told us: "Now that I have voted for the first time in my life, I can die".

As indicated by the Secretary of State, governance, human resources training, strengthening the civil society, and economic growth in South Africa seem to be well-targeted priorities. We are confident that they will make it possible to sustain coherent development, which will bolster lasting peace and social justice.

This three-year $20 million program is very timely. We believe that Canada, in addition to its foreign aid action and its remarkable involvement in UN peacekeeping, must make the promotion of human rights and democracy one of the key areas, if not the cornerstone of its foreign policy.

Canada's recent turnaround on this fundamental issue does not augur well. If the Secretary of State is as concerned about promoting democracy as she would have us believe this morning, can she tell us what she really thinks of her government's drastic change of direction on this issue, a change which is far from identifying democracy and human rights as one of the main elements shaping Canada's foreign policy?

I want to take the opportunity given to us this morning to call upon the Secretary of State to intervene. Her government's lack of leadership on the issue of human rights is an outright shame. I urge her to ask her Prime Minister not to renege on Canada's international commitments such as those made at the 1989 Dakar Francophone Summit, where the 42 French-speaking countries passed a Canadian resolution to give basic objective status to the protection of human rights in the international community.

Indeed, respect of individual rights was confirmed as a determining factor in the granting of international assistance at the 1991 Commonwealth Summit in Zimbabwe. So, on behalf of the thousands of Chinese people who have been left to rot in prison unjustly, I call upon her, I urge her to ask her Prime Minister to raise publicly the issue of human rights violation during his visit to China. It is her duty to do so, unless she too is afraid that Canada will be laughed at.

But the example of South Africa speaks for itself. This shift the government is making will unfortunately cause the issue of human rights to be discussed behind the scenes, to humour certain nations, particularly potential commercial channels for Canada. We suggest that Canadian action should be consistent. Canada should have the courage of its convictions if it hopes to be respected and to maintain its credibility around the world.

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. Secretary of State for African and Central American Affairs for recognizing the need of South Africa and continuing the longstanding relationship that our countries have had.

Having spent time working and travelling in the country, I am always struck by the enormous amount of potential that the country has both in terms of human and material resources. It can be the powerhouse that drives the whole southern half of a continent, a continent tragically that is littered with the carcasses of countries in various states of economic and political ruin.

The end of apartheid done so admirably by the country and with such extraordinary restraint is a resolution to only one-half of their problem. The other half, perhaps the more difficult one, still faces them. This is where our country can have an extraordinary effect.

We must do this given the constraints of the economic woes that we have within our own country.

The trick of course will be for the South African government to guide its country through the mine field of economic and societal problems that face it toward a productive, vibrant economy that is safe and peaceful, a society where everybody has equal rights under the law, a society where everybody has the opportunity to achieve their greatest potential.

We must do this to ensure that South Africa does not wind up on the tragic heap of African countries that have fallen to such a state of disrepair and I am optimistic that South Africa will not be one of them.

I have some questions for the hon. member. I see no amount as to the total amount of the aid package which will be given. This must be known. I would like to know exactly what projects are going to be funded and on behalf of the taxpayer request that accountability be set into the system.

I would also like to know exactly where these dollars are going in order to ensure that they are going to go to the people intended. I would encourage the member to involve a review process of the project so that we can assess and determine whether the moneys that we are spending are going to help the people who truly need them.

However, if I can synthesize the major problem that affects South Africa in its near natal stage, in its new South Africa, it will be the income disparity that exists between whites and blacks. This disparity and the extraordinary high expectations that have come post-election and how the government deals with this will be an incredibly important determining factor in the success or failure of the new South Africa.

Under the yoke of apartheid and through the sanctions, there have been bred at least two generations of people without money, without jobs and without hope which in turn has bred an extraordinarily high level of violence and many areas of siege mentality.

These expectations are asking for immediate gratification, expectations that unfortunately cannot be met in the short term. The cure for this lies in real sustainable jobs for the future which will provide the people with the funds to produce the necessities for life, education, good health and food and provide the tax structure and tax base that the government can utilize to provide for the infrastructure required.

It will also provide for a vibrant middle class, especially among the poor black populace. This is exceptionally important and cannot be underestimated. It will help to make the transition from the era of apartheid to a new South Africa one that is coherent and one that will be moving in the future for safety and prosperity for all.

I would however encourage our government and the Government of South Africa to listen to the following. Income distribution does not involve soaking the rich. It will be ineffective and counterproductive and will only drive out the skilled business sector and be counterproductive to those people who are meant to help.

It is only by retaining these skills and the goodwill of the business sector that help will be provided for the larger, broader poor and essentially the black population and enable them to improve their living standard.

It is important also for South Africa to encourage foreign investment and foreign investment from lending institutions. We must avoid quick social fixes because they do not work.

Social reform is imperative with education and primary health care and widely accessible birth control and public housing being at the top of the list. This cannot come at the expense of a free market economy but must occur in tandem.

In 1993 the government developed a $12 billion deficit. It must learn from our mistakes and not continue to spend in a deficit fashion. What it does is this. We know from our own sorry experience that it only seeks to compromise the very social programs and services that we hope to provide as governments.

It must also avoid greater government intervention. It is as we know a country that has an extraordinary amount of government intervention in its private sector. We must help it as a country to move away from that. We must therefore encourage its people to move toward privatization. We must also encourage the drop in tariff barriers and decrease the tariffs according to GATT.

Canada can indeed help this and I applaud the government in extension of the general preferential tariff. I would encourage it to remove as soon as possible the double taxation system that exists for companies that wish to invest in South Africa. This will go a long way toward helping our companies as well as their country toward a more productive, economic discourse between our two countries.

South Africa in essence needs trade, not aid, and the liberalization of trade between our two countries is of greatest importance.

I will conclude by saying that what has happened in that country has been truly extraordinary, the move by themselves away from apartheid with extraordinary divisions among the people and doing it in a peaceful fashion to move toward an era of hope and prosperity for all. I hope our country will enable them to do this within the constraints of our country's economic woes. I hope the hon. member will provide the information I asked for on the aid package that has been given.

Committees Of The House

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present the 46th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs regarding the associate membership of the Standing Committee on Health.

Mr. Speaker, I think you will find there is unanimous consent of the House to dispense with the reading of the 46th report of the standing committee. I move that the 46th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs be concurred in.

(Motion agreed to.)

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I move:

That the name of the following member be deleted from the list of associate members of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs: Mr. Axworthy (Saskatoon-Clark's Crossing); and that the name of the following member be added to the list of associate members of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs: Mr. Solomon.

(Motion agreed to.)

Petitions

[Len Hopkins, Liberal, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a petition signed by many Canadians asking Parliament to ensure that the present provisions of the Criminal Code of Canada prohibiting assisted suicide be enforced vigorously and that Parliament make no changes in the law that would sanction or allow the aiding or abetting of suicide or active or passive euthanasia.

This petition is signed by Ontario residents from Cobden, Kitchener, Haleys Station, Pembroke, Eganville, and CFB Borden, Mississauga, Chalk River, Calabogie, Bancroft and also from Low, Quebec.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, York North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a petition signed by over 5,000 people from the riding of York North and throughout the greater Toronto area in response to the murder of Brian Baylen, an employee in the town of Richmond Hill.

The petition calls for amendments to the Young Offenders Act. The petition urges the government to allow more realistic maximum penalties for violent crimes, to redefine the term young persons and reform sentencing in the Young Offenders Act.

I thank the residents of York North and in particular Susan Chase, a constituent of York North who made such great efforts to bring these concerns to the attention of Parliament. I personally will undertake to bring this petition to the attention of the Minister of Justice.

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present a petition on behalf of Jo Congdon and 50 others in which the petitioners pray and request that Parliament not amend the human rights code, the Canadian Human Rights Act or the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in any way which would tend to indicate societal approval of same sex relationships or of homosexuality, including amending the human rights code to include in the prohibited grounds of discrimination the undefined phrase of sexual orientation.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is my responsibility today to present two petitions. The first petition is signed by 416 people from the riding of Calgary West and mainly other parts of the city of Calgary.

It asks that Parliament not amend the human rights code, the Human Rights Act or the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in any way which would tend to indicate societal approval of same sex relationships or of homosexuality, including amending the human rights code to include in the prohibited grounds of discrimination the undefined phrase sexual orientation.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the second petition comes from 135 electors also mainly in Calgary West and other parts of the city of Calgary.

This petition asks that Parliament continue to reject euthanasia and physician assisted suicide in Canada, that the present provisions of section 241 of the Criminal Code of Canada which forbids the counselling, procuring, aiding or abetting of a person to commit suicide be enforced vigorously and that Parliament consider expanding palliative care that would be accessible to all dying persons in Canada.

[Hugh Hanrahan, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have the privilege to present two petitions on behalf of 185 constituents.

In the first petition I would like to draw the attention of the House to the inadequacies of the Young Offenders Act. The petitioners are requesting that a complete and thorough review of existing legislation take place particularly aimed at changes to sentencing length on repeat offenders.

[Hugh Hanrahan, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the second petition would like to draw the attention of the House to the issue of sexual orientation.

My constituents are requesting that Parliament not amend the human rights code or the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in any way which would indicate societal approval of same sex relationships.

Questions On The Order Paper

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I would ask that all questions be allowed to stand.

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to draw to the attention of the House that Question No. 47 on the Order Paper has been there now for some 200 days. I would like to ask the government when we might expect an answer to that question.

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I regret that there has been some delay in replying to some of the questions on the Order Paper.

The particular question to which the hon. member refers is one to which I have received a partial answer. Because the answer was incomplete I sent it back to the various departments requesting that a complete and full answer be furnished for the hon. member.

I do not know whether that request will be answered fully or not. However, when I receive further replies from the departments I will bring the answer I have to the House and make it available to the hon. member by depositing it in the House. If there is a further question of course he may want to ask it at that time.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Shall all the questions stand?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.