Debates of Dec. 13th, 1994

Immigration And Refugee Board

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, public interest always comes first. No one is suggesting for one moment that any vested interests have any control of the Immigration and Refugee Board. If the member has information like his leader was doing a few weeks ago, he should come clean and give us specific information.

I mentioned very seriously that the review of all government agencies is something that the IRB is involved in. Proposals have been made and will be released in the new year.

Second, the Hathaway report which I hope the hon. member had an occasion to read points out a possible number of avenues that the current chair independent of government is looking at.

Third, I will be meeting with the chair to discuss the issues as well as any other possible measures that would strengthen the board. If the Reform Party which has been in office for a year-

[The Speaker]

As a general rule, if you have three points that is quite a bit.

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, not only has the Immigration and Refugee Board been tainted by the Schelew affair but the entire process for admitting immigrants and refugees into Canada has been brought into question.

The problem is much bigger than Mr. Schelew, the IRB or this particular minister. What is needed is a thorough investigation into the whole immigration and refugee determination process along with a look at alternative methods and procedures.

Will the Prime Minister get to the bottom of this mess and order a white paper on the immigration and refugee determination system in Canada either through this minister or through a new minister with the skills and commitment to reform the system?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I know very well that the policy of accepting some refugees in Canada does not please the Reform Party. Canada has always been more able than any other country to help people in very difficult positions around the world.

I do not want to do that, in conformity with the laws that this Parliament has passed. If there is some need for change in the legislation, the House of Commons will have an occasion to study it and make recommendations.

This government in a year and one month has shown that we have the proper balance. There are some incidents. It is not easy to come to a conclusion in cases like that.

We have appointed members with their own convictions and they try to do their best. In this case apparently there might have been some error made and the person decided to resign. He has the right to resign and somebody else will be appointed. We want to maintain a policy that permits the people of the world, when they are in very difficult situations, to know there are some people who are concerned about human beings, the Canadian government.

Rogers Cable

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

Rogers, the cable television company, decided to change access to its French-language channels TV5 and Météo Média, and to cancel Musique Plus, as of Thursday of this week. These changes will significantly reduce access to French channels for francophones. This situation is undoubtedly the result of a bad decision made by the CRTC regarding RDI, a decision that the heritage minister refused to review, in spite of a request to that effect by the opposition.

Since it is also the responsibility of the minister to support francophone and Acadian communities, will he take action so that Rogers maintains those three French-language channels as part of its basic service?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to serve Canadian and francophone communities. I have no intention of interfering with the decisions of the CRTC, except to the extent of the legislative powers delegated to me. The hon. member's remark is interesting. In fact, we are examining this issue.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to see that the minister has decided to take our request into consideration, but can he tell us now when he intends to provide an answer to francophone communities, since this service will be cut on Thursday?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I already had the opportunity to express my views on extending the RDI service to francophone communities. Radio-Canada has a responsibility which I have recognized, and it is precisely from that angle that I look at the issue.

Nuclear Weapons

[Ted McWhinney, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

The United Nations World Health Organization has asked the World Court for an advisory opinion whether the use of nuclear weapons is against international law. Will the government consider informing the court of those areas in which Canada considers the use of nuclear weapons to be against international law?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, Canada supports the objective of the elimination of nuclear weapons. However, we believe a treaty that would be binding on all the parties would be more conducive to efficiency than a mere reference to the international court of justice.

Taxation

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, today in this House the Liberal government summoned members from all over Ottawa so they could smother debate about the fact that their government is considering tax increases. How can the finance minister claim his government is willing to listen to Canadians when he permits his government to smother debate about the issue in this House?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I am not quite sure what the member means by smothering debate.

The finance committee has gone across the country and has heard from Canadians. There has been extensive discussion within the committee in which the member participated. In this House there have been countless questions. There have been discussions back and forth.

I am not quite sure what further debate the Reform Party would like to see. We have listened to the members ad nauseam putting up strawmen like carbon taxes and everything else.

One day the leader of the Reform Party talked about what it cost per minute to listen to this House. We have blown a billion dollars listening to the Reform Party.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rather get the impression that the finance minister along with the rest of his party did not have a clue what they were voting on this morning. What has happened to the Liberals and the finance minister since they sat on this side of the House?

Perhaps I could help the finance minister remember that on April 27, 1993 he said: "In the real world outside Parliament Hill political revolution is under way". He said: "Canadians are demanding an end to the volleys of taxation that issue from the nation's capital every spring". What does he think of his own words today?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the member is absolutely right. When I was in opposition I referred to the political revolution that was taking place outside the House. It took place and that is why we are in government.

Canada Labour Code

[Bernard St-Laurent, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. Yesterday, I clearly demonstrated to the minister that the Canada Employment Centre in Verdun was instrumental in the hiring of scabs to replace workers now on strike at Ogilvie.

Now that the minister knows what is going on, does he intend to take steps to stop this practice in Verdun and at all Canada Employment centres?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I took a look at the information provided by the hon. member and had it examined.

I would like to report to him and to other members of the House. He knows full well that under the rules of the International Labour Organization, to which Canada is a signatory, in the delivery of employment development services a government cannot take sides in any industrial dispute.

Therefore they posted the notice of the job with the fact that there was a strike or an industrial dispute taking place, which was totally and completely within the criteria established by the International Labour Organization.

[Bernard St-Laurent, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister agree that this situation makes a case for the quick adoption of amendments to the Canada Labour Code that would prohibit the use of scabs during a labour dispute, and that this should be done without waiting for the review announced by the minister?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I have said in the House before that we are very interested in looking at modernizing the Canada Labour Code.

We are taking into account a number of representations. I have met, as have other members of the caucus and the member for Outremont, directly with the working group from the ADM Ogilvie. We will certainly take the representations into account. We are looking at the entire issue. When the cabinet has decided then legislation will be presented to the House.

Government Business

[Elwin Hermanson, Reform, Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, today the Minister of Justice told the press that because "we have had just a very busy time" he is not going to bring forward changes to the Canadian Human Rights Act. Earlier he delayed introduction of gun legislation and he failed totally to introduce legislation to end the drug defence in justice.

My question is for the government House leader. In light of the fact the government is so short of legislation to bring before the House that the House is often suspended or is adjourned early, why is the government not introducing its legislation on schedule as promised?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, we have a program of legislation with which we are proceeding. I expect the legislation the hon. member mentioned will be tabled shortly after we come back in February.

Even if the legislation had been tabled this week there would not have been time to do anything more than open debate. That is a fact in reality the hon. member should recognize as House leader for his party.

[Elwin Hermanson, Reform, Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, this is an ongoing problem. We have had this problem for months, ever since the Liberals took over.

Today the President of the Treasury Board announced further delays in reform of the MPs' outrageous pension plan. Is this delay symptomatic of a government that cannot find consensus in its caucus, will not allow free votes, and therefore avoids trouble by denying Canadians prompt introduction of promised legislation?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the department is going to be going for another three or four years. Nobody is retiring or leaving. I do not think any of the members opposite are planning on doing that. There is plenty of time to deal with the issues.

We are continuing to review the matter and to look at the various options. We have a number of things the government is putting forward to meet all its obligations. We will meet our obligations under the red book commitments with respect to MPs' pensions, to end double dipping, and to deal with the question of a minimum age.

Indian Affairs

[Harold Culbert, Liberal, Carleton—Charlotte, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

After several weeks of investigating native government on the Maliseet reserve near Woodstock in my riding, the Telegraph Journal has made some very serious allegations regarding the expenditure of federal funds.

Could the minister provide the House with information concerning the allegations over mismanagement of funds in the first nation and any information relative to an RCMP investigation?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, band members at Woodstock First Nations have made allegations against their chief, Mr. Len Tomah, who has been chief for about 10 years. The RCMP is investigating. The file is not closed to date. Obviously it has not obtained sufficient evidence to lay any charges.

I hesitate to discuss an ongoing case in the House because we have a system of justice, fairness and due process based on facts, not on allegations. Within that regard I want to assure the member of two things. First, there will be full and complete co-operation by ministry officials with the RCMP and, second, there will be no interference with the RCMP investigation.

Dual Citizenship

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration.

Last June, the Liberal majority on the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, supported by the Reform Party, adopted a report on the Citizenship Act, which included a recommendation to eliminate a long standing right in Canada to hold dual citizenship. The Bloc Quebecois objected strenuously to this recommendation.

Can the minister confirm that his government intends to accept these recommendations to abolish the right to hold dual citizenship in Canada, a right that is recognized by more and

more countries, including Italy, Australia, Switzerland, Great Britain, France and the United States?