Debates of Feb. 11th, 1994

Goods And Services Tax

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Hamilton East, ON]

Having said that, I think that the Prime Minister of Canada and his counterparts from every province, including Quebec, are very aware of the problem of overlap in the tax system. This problem was raised on many occasions by the Leader of the Opposition and by the finance departments, and we want to deal with it, mostly with the support of the provinces who also want a more efficient tax system doing away with overlap. That is the basis for the new tax system.

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Deputy Prime Minister not agree that, instead of initiating major

projects and implementing a single tax system, she should first try to simplify the GST and to eliminate the management and administration problems it creates for all businesses, especially small and medium-sized businesses?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Of course, Mr. Speaker, we want to do both. A few weeks ago, the Official Opposition asked the Auditor General to examine all cases of duplication in fiscal and other programs. We in the government want to do our job and eliminate this duplication, and I hope that we will have the support of the Opposition in creating a more equitable a tax system for taxpayers who are paying a heavy price at the federal, provincial and municipal level.

Government Spending

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

Wednesday in the finance committee the minister indicated that the deficit for this year may now not go below $40 billion. This sounds like a return to a familiar pattern.

In the upcoming budget is it the government's intention at least to comply with the spending limits set out in the last budget and under the current spending control act for the fiscal year 1994-95 and subsequent years?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure the House will understand that with the imminence of the budget it is really not incumbent upon me to make any comment really on what is going to be included in it.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would hope that we could make comment on the general budgetary framework and policy of the government without looking at budgetary specifics.

The minister continues to claim that he will reach his goal of reducing the deficit to 3 per cent of GNP by the 1997 fiscal year. We remember the actions of the former Progressive Conservative government, which pushed its deficit targets further back every year.

Can the minister assure us that he will publish his minimum deficit reduction targets for each year until 1997 in his next budget and will he make a commitment to resign if he fails to reach his minimum targets?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I have just started! The Opposition is certainly entitled to make comments, but you must understand that the finance minister has to restrict his given the imminence of the budget. I can assure the hon. member that the 3 per cent objective remains a target of the Liberal government.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have an additional supplementary question.

The minister is fond of referring to the 3 per cent GDP deficit target of the European Community. He will know that the European Community combines this with a maximum debt target of 60 per cent of GDP. The federal government is already at 70 per cent of GDP. What is the minister's target for the maximum debt GDP ratio in the upcoming period, the period of this Parliament?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I am really not in a position to respond on the details of the budget until such time as I have presented the budget.

You have told us on numerous occasions that we should answer through you and I am prepared to do that. But my question to you, Mr. Speaker, is are you passing the answers on to them?

[The Speaker]

The hon. minister will know that you cannot put questions to the Chair. I know that the question and answer period is going to remain just that, questions and answers and not questions and questions.

Cigarette Taxes

[Maurice Bernier, Bloc, Mégantic—Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Quebec Food Retailers Association has explained to the Minister of Finance that the government's plan to fully refund retailers with an inventory exceeding 5,000 cartons of cigarettes the amount they have overpaid in taxes was unfair to small retailers, as they will be the only ones to incur losses, losses which are estimated at between $5 and $10 million.

In the absence of the Minister of National Revenue, I direct my question to the Deputy Prime Minister. How can she justify measures that will penalize only small retailers while large retailers will be getting a full refund?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I met in person with the president of the Retailers Association when he was here with the Conseil du patronat. The solution we are proposing is the most equitable

and practical, given the difficulty and complexity of the situation. It should be pointed out that the solution for small retailers may be to negotiate with the wholesalers or manufacturers.

[Maurice Bernier, Bloc, Mégantic—Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I have a supplementary question for the Minister of Finance.

Since the Government of Quebec will be reimbursing the full amount overpaid in taxes on cigarettes, would it not be possible for the minister to make arrangements with the Quebec government to harmonize the refund verification procedure, thus sparing governments and retailers alike unnecessary administration costs?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, we understand very well the problem facing small retailers and sympathize with them. Certainly, we would be prepared to discuss this matter with them as well as with the Government of Quebec.

The difference between the two levels of government is that we imposed a cut in flat-rate taxes and variable-rate taxes, while Quebec, as you know, had a flat tax, which is causing problems not only in Quebec but throughout Canada. That is why our situation is different. But, as I said, we are prepared to talk about the problem. There is no easy solution.

The Budget

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. The minister continually indicates to us that he is unable to answer questions with regard to the deficit, the debt and deficit reduction. That bit of procrastination creates not only an uneasiness within this House but also in the marketplace.

When will the budget come down so that we can debate that issue with all the details and facts and get on with the job we have to do in this assembly?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the question of the hon. member opposite stings me to the quick with the allusion that I would not be prepared to answer a question directly.

I must congratulate him on the timeliness of his question. I am pleased to inform the House that the budget will be tabled at five o'clock on Tuesday, February 22.

I wish to thank the hon. member for his question and I am pleased to announce that the budget will be tabled in this House at 5 p.m., on Tuesday, February 22.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, I certainly appreciate the frankness and directness of the minister.

I do not want to have the minister disclose anything that will come up in the budget. However, could he indicate and confirm the commitment of the government that there will be no increase in taxes in that budget and that average Canadians will not be adversely affected in any major way?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I did a very good job in answering the hon. member's first question.

Budget measures will be tabled in the budget and the debate will ensue thereafter.

Canadian Hemophilia Society

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on November 24, La Presse published an article in which Mr. Justice Krever, chairman of the public inquiry on tainted blood, stated that the financial assistance provided to the commission and the Canadian Hemophilia Society was far from adequate.

Now that the Minister of Health had time to think about it, will she reconsider her decision and give the Canadian Hemophilia Society all the money it needs?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I had already answered this question many times. I want to say again that the decision is up to the Office of the Treasury Board, which is in charge of considering the request.

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, will the minister agree with Mr. Justice Krever that the commission of inquiry also lacks the necessary funds to get to the bottom of this issue of tainted blood?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, this is a judicial inquiry which was approved and started by the previous government. The budgets were set at that time. We must maintain, as I must as Minister of Health, a hands off approach to this commission because it is a judicial inquiry into what happened.

A request has come forward for additional funds and it is being studied by Treasury Board.

Employment

[Hugh Hanrahan, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development and is inspired by Ms. Ellen Reid of London, Ontario.

This government has promised to reduce both the deficit and the unemployment rate. The Minister of Finance has stated his deficit goal for the next year and has committed to a three year goal equal to 3 per cent of the GDP.

Is the Minister of Human Resources Development prepared to establish similar goals for the reduction in the rate of unemployment?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased the hon. member is able to get such inspired questions from Canadians. It certainly has elevated the level of questions we have been receiving.

I want to say to the hon. member and through him and you, Mr. Speaker, to the questioner that the Minister of Finance and I share the goals to bring down the deficit and to bring down unemployment. We all know that one is related to the other. We need to have fiscal stability to have good economic growth. However, we also must have good investment in people in order to have fiscal stability.

The government has embarked on a major effort to find ways in which it can reorganize programs like unemployment insurance, the Canada assistance plan and student aid so it can really invest in people. The best way of bringing down our deficit and the unemployment rate is to put more Canadians to work.