Debates of Feb. 14th, 1994

Kahnawake Reserve

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, could the Prime Minister tell us whether or not it is true that the RCMP has been compiling evidence for months on people involved in cocaine trafficking, and especially on an Indian chief?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is never wise to comment on investigations in progress or on matters related to police operations. If the hon. member wants an action leading to convictions in criminal court, he should be careful in the way he formulates his questions. I do not suppose he wants to create a situation which would prevent the police from presenting enough incriminating evidence in court.

Aluminium Industry

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Trade.

The government recently signed a credit agreement worth $60 million U.S. to help finance the construction of a new aluminium smelter in South Africa. However, Canada has also entered into an informal agreement to cut world-wide aluminium production by about 10 per cent.

Will the minister explain to the House why his government is trying to reduce the international aluminium glut on the one hand and is helping to build a new smelter on the other?

[Roy MacLaren, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the contract in South Africa with SNC Lavalin is for the design of an aluminium smelter. It will not come on stream for a number of years, by which time the present excess amounts of stockpile in Russia should have been absorbed by the market.

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I have a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps the government thinks that some jobs are more important than others, but the aluminum glut has already forced western producers and Alcan Aluminum in Montreal to cut production by one half million tonnes.

Can the minister explain to Canadian aluminum workers who are in danger of losing their jobs because of falling aluminum prices why their taxes are helping to finance a foreign competitor?

[Roy MacLaren, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, I thought I had just answered that question.

The situation with regard to Russia today is one of a present glut of a stockpile. The agreement among the countries involved is intended to look toward orderly marketing of that stockpile.

In the year 1996 and beyond when the South African aluminium smelter comes on stream, there should be in place a more standard, orthodox market for aluminium. We do not anticipate at that time the sort of glut that is being encountered today.

Budget

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this morning we learned that the Minister of Finance had informed the president as well as the vice-president of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, Mr. Pierre Cléroux, that he would be slashing expenditures by roughly $5 billion while increasing taxes on the middle class by $2 billion. This announcement came on the heels of a series of meetings between the minister and this organization which is well-viewed by the Canadian public.

After having shown a lack of judgment last week with his statements on interests rates, can the Minister of Finance tell us, yes or no, whether he disclosed these details about the budget to Mr. Pierre Cléroux?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is no.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

That answer is brief and to the point. Mr. Speaker, does this means that the Canadian Federation of Independent Business and its representatives are not credible?

In response to all our questions, the Minister of Finance keeps repeating: Wait for the budget. Given that the minister made these statements to the Canadian Federation, will he not acknowledge that it is totally unacceptable for him to reveal this kind of information to lobbyists outside this House, not to mention that it shows contempt for members of Parliament and for the people of Quebec and Canada?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development (Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, I think that this goes to show why one should not prepare his supplementary question before knowing what the answer to the main question will be.

Since I never made such a statement, I cannot, therefore, answer the second question which is nonsensical.

Human Rights

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

An audit of the International Centre for Human Rights and Democratic Development in Montreal reports a waste of millions of taxpayer dollars. Will the government commit to acting on the recommendations of the audit?

[Roy MacLaren, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the centre has already set up a committee to look further into the questions the hon. member has raised. I believe in the first instance they will be dealt with in that way.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the audit reports that the staff at the centre is overpaid an average of $10,000 and that the senior staff is rarely in the office.

Given that similar work is already being done by other public agencies this entire project appears to be an expensive retirement plan for the former leader of the NDP, complete with a $150,000 yearly salary. Will the government terminate this centre and save taxpayers more than $4 million a year?

[Roy MacLaren, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the centre itself, in devising its salary policies, attempted to follow guidelines similar to those of the public service in job identification and remuneration.

That process may be under evaluation by the board of the centre. I hope my colleague, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, will have the opportunity to respond more fully to the question at a later date.

The Budget

[Nic Leblanc, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. With a view to increasing government revenues, the Minister of Finance is considering broadening the tax base in the next budget, and specifically, lowering the ceiling on RRSPs, which primarily benefit the middle class.

Is the Minister of Finance prepared to promise that the measures contained in his upcoming budget will not increase the tax burden of the middle class?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development (Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said repeatedly to members opposite, they will know what is in the budget when I table it.

[Nic Leblanc, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Of course, Mr. Speaker, I was expecting this answer. Nevertheless, does the Minister of Finance not realize that in all fairness, lowering the ceiling on RRSPs will deal a direct blow to self-employed workers who, unlike other workers, do not have an employer-sponsored pension plan?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development (Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, if the answer is known, why ask the question? Clearly, we will examine the ramifications of all the measures we intend to put forward in the budget.

Immigration

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration.

Recently the minister criticized the report of the C. D. Howe Institute which recommended that 150,000 immigrants per year be accepted into Canada.

What empirical evidence does the minister have to refute the conclusions of this report?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I criticized no such report. I simply said that the report, often quoted by that gentleman and his

party, did not tell Canadians that it was found in the very worst case scenario that immigration was neutral on the economy. That is what I said and that is what I stand by.

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a supplemental. In the same address the minister spoke positively about an Economic Council of Canada report. It recommends an immigration level of about 180,000, fully 70,000 fewer than the minister's plan.

Why has the minister chosen to ignore not only the C.D. Howe Institute but also the Economic Council of Canada which he previously cited in support of his immigration policy?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member is wrong with respect to drawing that conclusion from the Economic Council of Canada.

The Economic Council of Canada agreed with the approximate 1 per cent figure. It also made the additional recommendation that governments should pursue that 1 per cent gradually and that is exactly what we did. We honoured the commitment of approximately 1 per cent which was a red book commitment and we are doing it gradually which is in keeping with the Economic Council report recommendations.

Health

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health. In an interview with the Toronto Star , the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs again suggested a 20 per cent cut in health care expenditures.

Does the minister agree with her colleague's statement and can she also tell us if the 20 per cent cut in health care expenditures is an official objective of the government?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, first I must say that this very interesting article includes several government policy reviews, but I do not think that its author, Ed Stewart, states that I said the government's policy was to reduce health care expenditures. This was not his intention and this is not what I said. I want to reassure the hon. member and tell her that I am not aware of any plan to reduce health care expenditures in Canada by 20 per cent.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary. Will the Minister of Health tell us that, in its upcoming budget, the government will not reduce transfer payments related to health care?