House of Commons Hansard #32 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was society.
Deborah Grey Reform Beaver River, AB
When may we on this side of the House applaud just as uproariously when the government acts swiftly on the outrageous cash-for-life pension plan for MPs?
Members Of Parliament Retiring Allowances ActOral Question Period
Hamilton East Ontario
Liberal
Sheila Copps LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment
Madam Speaker, the public is rightly concerned about the compensation of members of Parliament and I in no way intend to diminish that debate. That is why the very first action of the President of the Treasury Board was to set up a parliamentary committee so all members could have input into this most important issue.
However the member and the new members who are getting a handle on the workload of this place do a disservice to the Canadian public when they leave the impression that somehow we are here because of a cash-for-life lottery.
If I wanted to make money, I would take my talents and brains and apply them in lots of other places where I would not be dependent on a pension but would be remunerated far more per hour for the work than I do in this place.
Deborah Grey Reform Beaver River, AB
A further supplementary question, Madam Speaker. We are talking about fairness of pension plans in the public sector as well as fairness for members of Parliament. There is a huge difference.
Statistics Canada reports that a 30-year old working Canadian may reach retirement and find there is no money left in the Canada pension plan to offer him or her a secure retirement. Is the Deputy Prime Minister prepared to stand in the House and tell that 30-year old Canadian that untold millions of dollars will be made available to MPs for gold-plated pensions but there will not be enough for people who worked far more than six years in other professions?
Members Of Parliament Retiring Allowances ActOral Question Period
Hamilton East Ontario
Liberal
Sheila Copps LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment
Madam Speaker, I have a six-year old Canadian who I fully expect to be working outside the home for most of her adult life. Obviously I and every other member of Parliament want to make sure that she has the security she needs and deserves. That is why we have promised to take a look at the issue.
The hon. member is throwing around these figures about the way we are making ourselves rich in Parliament. Obviously her colleague right behind her is in receipt of two pensions and we want to make sure that when we do parliamentary reform it is fair. We want to involve all members in the discussion to ensure that issues like double dipping are dealt with and make sure that pension reform is fair. It is important to restore the public's faith in the system.
We are not in this place to make a buck. I wish the Reform Party members would start to understand that.
Members Of Parliament Retiring Allowances ActOral Question Period
Some hon. members
Hear, hear.
Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Bloc Laval Centre, QC
Madam Speaker, my question is for the minister of defence.
The government is using the fact that it must significantly cut Canadian military expenditures to justify the closure of the Collège militaire de Saint-Jean and the transfer of training activities to Kingston.
Does the Minister of National Defence not recognize that budget cuts are no justification for the government's decision since activities are not being eliminated, but merely transferred from Saint-Jean to Kingston?
Collège Militaire Royal De Saint-JeanOral Question Period
Don Valley East Ontario
Liberal
David Collenette LiberalMinister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs
Madam Speaker, that is not quite accurate. The hon. member knows we have been decreasing the size of the armed forces. In fact in the recent budgetary statement the size of the armed forces will go from about 76,000 at present to 66,700. It goes without saying there will be a reduction in the number of officers required.
It is not true to say it is simply a rollover, taking the people from St. Jean and putting them in Kingston. There is an overall reduction. That is why we need to centralize in one particular location.
Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Bloc Laval Centre, QC
Madam Speaker, can the minister tell us clearly what kind of savings the current government intends to realize by transferring activities from Saint-Jean to Kingston and can he give us some figures?
David Collenette LiberalMinister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs
Madam Speaker, I would be pleased to show the hon. member the figures if she would come to the standing committee next Tuesday when I will be appearing and defending the estimates for the Department of National Defence. She can have all the answers she wants.
Sharon Hayes Reform Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Madam Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board and was inspired by a large group of women and men, the Armed Forces Pensioners Association of Canada.
The issue facing them has been festering since October 1992. That issue is the stonewalling of their many attempts to gain approval from Treasury Board for a group dental plan paid for by payroll deductions. This will not cost taxpayers one cent but simply will allow these pensioners to have a better and more efficient system.
In the 50th anniversary year of D-Day, is the President of the Treasury Board prepared to implement this plan on behalf of those who have served our country so well in the Canadian Armed Forces?
Art Eggleton LiberalPresident of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure
Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for advance notice of the question.
Over the years in addition to statutory deductions made from the payroll there have been numerous requests with respect to charitable organizations, social recreation associations, credit unions, et cetera, for deductions to be made at source. It is to the point where it has stretched the limit of our personnel resources to be able to cope with them.
My officials have undertaken a comprehensive review of these deductions requested by third parties. That review is just about complete and will be coming shortly to my attention. We will certainly take into consideration the concerns of the pensioners from the armed forces group and others who have very worthwhile causes and terrific needs to be met on behalf of former employees.
Sharon Hayes Reform Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Madam Speaker, just as a reminder, the hon. minister's own colleague, the Minister of Finance, stated in a letter dated January 25, 1994 that he too recognized the association's desire for a prompt resolution and decision.
I would ask that the minister be specific as to when these armed forces pensioners can expect to have an answer and their plan implemented.
Art Eggleton LiberalPresident of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure
Madam Speaker, I expect we will be in a position to answer that question in the very near future. As I indicated a few moments ago the study is nearing completion. It will be examined shortly by Treasury Board and we will give it every consideration.
I again thank the hon. member for the question.
Pauline Picard Bloc Drummond, QC
Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice. In a report published today, the Canadian Advisory Council on the Status of Women is concerned about the considerable increase in applications for excision in Canada, excision being the sexual mutilation of girls.
Does the minister intend to follow up the recommendation of the Canadian Advisory Council on the Status of Women to ban by law any genital mutilation of girls?
Sheila Finestone LiberalSecretary of State (Multiculturalism) (Status of Women)
Madam Speaker, any act of violence against women is unacceptable in Canadian society. We are committed to put an end to this form of discrimination and violence against women. I assure you that we read the report that was released and that we will educate women in those communities through the Department of Health so that they know what practices are acceptable and what practices are not here in Canada. I hope that they will understand that it is not acceptable, here in Canada or anywhere else in the world.
Pauline Picard Bloc Drummond, QC
Madam Speaker, does the minister not think that a specific law criminalizing the practice of excision would be more advisable?
Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
Madam Speaker, it is the advice of the Department of Justice and indeed my own initial view that the present sections of the code are sufficient to prohibit the conduct described and to render it criminal activity.
I agree with the hon. Secretary of State for Multiculturalism and the Status of Women that our focus should perhaps be on education and proactive steps to alert health care professionals and others who see evidence of this conduct so that it is brought to light, investigated, punished and thereby prevented.
May I say that in view of the statistics presented by the council in its report released today and in view of the case that it makes for a specific prohibition in the code, I am happy to take a fresh look at the question. England has a specific prohibition against such practices. I shall look at it afresh with the Department of Justice.
I will be happy to let the hon. member know within the month what position we take concerning the suggestion she has made.
Daphne Jennings Reform Mission—Coquitlam, BC
Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.
In view of the fact we are in the year of the family and the roots of families who now have small children have begun with grandparents, would the minister consider bringing in an amendment to the Divorce Act which would require judges to consider the access rights of grandparents to children in a divorce action?
Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
Madam Speaker, let me first express my gratitude to the hon. member for Mission-Coquitlam for her consideration in furnishing advance notice of the question.
I acknowledge the importance of the subject matter. Sadly, given the incidence of dysfunctional families in this country today it is often the grandparents who are the principal source of stable and continuous guidance and care for children. That must be recognized.
Last year the Department of Justice initiated a broad process of consultation concerning the custody and access provisions in the Divorce Act. That process ended on December 31 by which time we had received hundreds of submissions. Among them were submissions that went directly to the point raised by the hon. member. We are now in the process of examining those submissions.
There will be a federal-provincial-territorial meeting with attorneys general and ministers of justice from the provinces toward the end of March. This subject is on the agenda. We will give it consideration. I am certainly open to the suggestion. I will keep the hon. member abreast of the developments in respect of the issues she has raised.
Daphne Jennings Reform Mission—Coquitlam, BC
Madam Speaker, I will be presenting over 3,000 petitions tomorrow in support of this.
Would the minister also consider a further amendment to the Divorce Act that would give the grandparent who is granted access the right to make inquiries and to be given information as to the grandchild's health, education and welfare?
Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
Madam Speaker, I will be happy to add that to the matters under consideration. Again I will let the hon. member know what it is we discuss with our colleagues at the provincial level.
Francine Lalonde Bloc Mercier, QC
Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for Public Service Renewal. One of the most important questions for Canadian women is that of equal pay for work recognized to be of equal value. There is even an act forbidding any discrimination of this type in Canada. As an employer though, the federal government does not abide by it. A study has clearly shown that more than 80,000 women in the public service are not receiving as much as men for work of equal value.
Is the government planning to give the proper example to employers on the subject of pay equity by committing itself to true wage parity between men and women working for the public service?
Art Eggleton LiberalPresident of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure
Madam Speaker, pay equity is a priority of this government. We want to ensure that women in fact all people are paid in a fair and equitable fashion according to the duties and responsibilities they carry out. We are a pay equity employer.
There is a dispute on the extent of some of the back pay required to bring some of the classifications up to date. That matter is before a tribunal and also is the subject of some examination at Treasury Board. It is hoped we can bring about a settlement with the bargaining agents of our employees.
However we believe in and give priority to pay equity.
Francine Lalonde Bloc Mercier, QC
Madam Speaker, given these conditions, does the minister recognize that in freezing all government employee salaries by means of the budget, the government is penalizing Canadian women even more because it is thereby confirming imbalances that already exist within its own compensation structure?
Art Eggleton LiberalPresident of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure
Madam Speaker, when my colleague delivered the budget to the House he indicated in bringing the deficit down it was necessary to freeze salaries for a further two years.
We are anxious to bring that to an end sooner if at all possible by finding efficiencies in the delivery of programs and services, and to examine roles and responsibilities as my colleague to my right is doing. Hopefully we will be joined in that exercise by our employees and their bargaining agents so that we can at the earliest possible time restore the opportunity for all of our employees to enjoy salary increases.
I might add that over the last few years even though there has been a salary freeze in three of the four years, because of the incremental increases on average increases of about 3 per cent have been going to our employees.