House of Commons Hansard #32 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was society.

Topics

Status Of WomenOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Madam Speaker, the question that has been raised is important.

We are not going to preserve and maintain the confidence of the public in the system of justice and the judiciary unless we have a bench that is representative of Canada not only with respect to gender but also with respect to the diversity of Canada's society.

As the minister in this government responsible primarily for bringing forward recommendations to cabinet for judicial appointment, I shall make it my business to ensure that we bear in mind the need for gender balance as well as the reflection of diversity on the bench in Canada.

It is true to say that there are not enough women judges in the federal courts today and that perhaps reflects the appointment practices in the past. So far as this government is concerned we are going to bear in mind the need for gender equality as well as representativeness generally in appointing judges to the federal bench.

Status Of WomenOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Bloc

Pierrette Venne Bloc Saint-Hubert, QC

Madam Speaker, the gap is so significant that to fill it we would need to award all new appointments to women, but I am not asking for that much.

Will the minister recommend that, for the next several years, at least 80 per cent of all positions becoming vacant be filled by women?

Status Of WomenOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Madam Speaker, I do not think the answer lies in attaching specific numerical or mathematical quotas in terms of the appointment of judges and I do not propose to approach it from that perspective.

I give the House my assurance that gender equality and representativeness are important considerations that will be brought to bear every time we make recommendations to cabinet. May I invite the hon. member's attention to the appointments made by the government to date. May I ask her to observe that fully half of those appointed since we took office are women.

Canadian FlagOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary North, AB

Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

When an official news conference is held at one of our embassies or high commissions is the display of the Canadian flag discretionary at such an event?

Canadian FlagOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Papineau—Saint-Michel Québec

Liberal

André Ouellet LiberalMinister of Foreign Affairs

Madam Speaker, it seems to me quite obvious that the Canadian flag should be on display.

Centre Of Excellence For Women's HealthOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Bloc

Maud Debien Bloc Laval East, QC

Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

The government has announced on several occasions-in the red book, in statements by the minister and in the budget speech-the creation of a centre of excellence for women's health, without giving further details. A short while ago, she was asked about this centre, but she could not provide a satisfactory answer.

If the minister cannot talk about the mandate and priorities of such a centre, could she tell us what its budget will be?

Centre Of Excellence For Women's HealthOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Sudbury Ontario

Liberal

Diane Marleau LiberalMinister of Health

Madam Speaker, we are presently preparing the criteria for the first centre of excellence for women's health. It will only be the first of several we want to establish in the near future, because it is essential that we deal with the question of women's health.

Ethics CounsellorOral Question Period

March 8th, 1994 / 3 p.m.

Reform

Margaret Bridgman Reform Surrey North, BC

Madam Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

It is reported in the Globe and Mail today that Mitchell Sharp is expected to be appointed as the government's first ethics counsellor.

During last fall's campaign the party opposite promised to consult with the opposition parties prior to appointing an ethics counsellor. Can the Deputy Prime Minister inform the House if there will be consultation with both opposition parties prior to this appointment?

Ethics CounsellorOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Hamilton East Ontario

Liberal

Sheila Copps LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment

Absolutely, Madam Speaker.

International Women's DayOral Question Period

3 p.m.

NDP

Audrey McLaughlin NDP Yukon, YT

Madam Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

On International Women's Day there are many things the government could do to improve the equality of women but I

want to propose to the Deputy Prime Minister that her government undertake two very simple things that could be done right now.

They concern two actions of the previous government. First, would the government agree to withdraw the appeal of the previous government on the ruling of the Canadian Human Rights Commission that the federal government be ordered to institute the pay equity settlement to female public sector workers. Second, the previous government denied the right of employees of members of Parliament to collectively bargain. A large majority of those employees are women. Would the government act on that issue as well?

International Women's DayOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Hamilton East Ontario

Liberal

Sheila Copps LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment

Madam Speaker, first I would like to congratulate the member who is the first woman leader of a national political party. She has been a role model for all women in Canada.

International Women's DayOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

International Women's DayOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Liberal

Sheila Copps Liberal Hamilton East, ON

Second, on the issue of the specifics of the court challenge we are exploring the possibility of discontinuing that challenge. The matter is now before the President of the Treasury Board.

On the issue of employee bargaining I can assure the hon. member that each member of Parliament is free to address this matter in his or her own way. In fact in the last Parliament the assistant in my office was one of those who was very active in the organizing process.

The member would agree that on the issue of freedom of a member of Parliament's office I do not think it is the responsibility of the government or a particular political party to decide for the whole House but rather individual members of Parliament have the right as any Canadian does for their employees to seek to organize.

Women RefugeesOral Question Period

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Eleni Bakopanos Liberal Saint-Denis, QC

Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. In the red book, the Liberal Party of Canada committed itself to extending refugee status to women persecuted on gender grounds. Previously, women refugees victims of violence and abuse in their country of origin were deported and forced to return to this dangerous environment.

In the context of International Women's Day I wish to ask the minister what the government is doing to fulfil its commitment to refugee women.

Women RefugeesOral Question Period

3:05 p.m.

York West Ontario

Liberal

Sergio Marchi LiberalMinister of Citizenship and Immigration

Madam Speaker, I would like, first of all, to thank my colleague for Saint-Denis for her question and her interest in immigration and refugee matters.

First, I am very proud that Canada is the only country with guidelines in its refugee determination system that permit women to make claims based on gender persecution. One hundred and fifty women have made such claims. Over 70 per cent have been accepted.

Second, since 1988 we have had a women at risk program that allows us to select those women who are most at risk and most vulnerable in their societies in our overseas selection of refugees. The international community has much more work to do because the majority of international refugees are women and young children, while the majority of refugees selected by countries are male. We have miles to go before we sleep.

Presence In GalleryOral Question Period

3:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

I wish to draw to members' attention the presence in the gallery of Ms. Bettie Hewes, Deputy Leader of the Opposition of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta.

Presence In GalleryOral Question Period

3:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Presence In GalleryOral Question Period

3:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

I would also like to recognize the presence in the gallery of the Mayor of Edmonton, Ms. Reimer.

Presence In GalleryOral Question Period

3:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

The House resumed consideration of the motion and the amendment.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

Bloc

Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Bloc Laval Centre, QC

Madam Speaker, it is on March 8, 1911, that for the first time ever, many countries decided to pay tribute to the courage and tenacity of women.

This acknowledgement of women's role in our society did not happen by chance; it was due to the relentless efforts of female pioneers who had decided to fight the poverty, inequity, and violence their sisters were faced with every day of their lives.

I want to salute the relentless efforts of these women who have been and are still fighting so that equality among human beings, men and women alike, may one day be a reality.

I want to wish all Quebec and Canadian women, and especially the women in my riding of Laval-Centre, a very happy day. They can count on my unfailing commitment to promote and fight for their rights. We still have a long way to go.

Women's economic situation, in Canada as well as in Quebec, is tragic. They are the first ones to be affected by the ravages of poverty, this scourge which has become rampant in our so-called developed society.

The situation is even more tragic for women who are single parents. More than anybody else, they bear the brunt of the present economic crisis.

We can only paint a rather dismal picture of the situation. Statistics and columns of figures show the extent of the problem. However, figures do not reflect the increasingly desperate situation of these families, these women who are fighting for their survival and their children's. Spurred on by the economic crisis, the government goes to war, but instead of targeting poverty, it targets the poor.

The latest budget speech and the planned reform of social programs are blatant examples of this. The government seems to remain insensitive to the plight of the hundreds of thousands of women who are the sole support of their family and who do not have a hope to make it without the government's help.

Very often, if they work outside their homes it is because financially they have to. It is to be able to survive that these women, who support their families, have to rely on the government's assistance. According to the latest figures-

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:10 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB

Madam Speaker, I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member, but I would ask a question of Madam Speaker.

All through question period I waited to ask a question. I have not been afforded an opportunity to ask a question in the House since I was elected. You had said-

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:10 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

I am sorry, I do not find this to be a point of order. I remind the hon. member that she was on statements. She was eighth on the list for questioners and we did not get to number eight. I tried everything I could to get as many people on as I could today. We went over the time for question period by almost five minutes. I am sorry but I did everything I could. I do not think we should interrupt debate. That could have waited until after the hon. member had finished.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:10 p.m.

Bloc

Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Bloc Laval Centre, QC

Madam Speaker, according to the most recent statistics available, in 1991, there were 1,883,140 families in Quebec. Of that total, 268,000 were single parent families and, of those, 82 per cent were headed, as you have guessed, by women.

In Canada, the situation is similar; Statistics Canada data indicate that one family out of seven is a single-parent one. Women who are heads of single-parent families are more likely to be poor than men or women living in any other types of families: nearly 62 per cent of them live below the poverty line. In 1990, female single parent families had the lowest income, on average $26,906-gross income of course-compared to $42,953 for single parent families headed by men. The incidence of poverty in single parent families headed by women is clear. Within a mere two years, the income of these families has dropped by about $3,000.

Single mothers must often take on complete responsibility for the physical, material and psychological well-being of their children. Such a reality explains why the recent trend reveals that some important changes have occurred in the social fabric of Canada and Quebec.

According to Statistics Canada, being a single parent usually results from the failure of a marriage and from child care being entrusted to the mother. These mothers are often younger and their education level lower than that of fathers who head single-parent families. These young mothers must work to support their children and therefore, have to leave school. They cannot acquire the necessary skills to get good quality jobs and consequently, cannot hope for a better income. They find themselves limited to low quality types of jobs.

According to the National Action Committee on the Status of Women, a staggering number of unemployed single mothers were living on a gross annual income of barely more than $12,000. These are 1991 figures. Everyone will agree that this is well below the poverty level.

Almost all the available income of these women came from the state, in the form of family allowances, unemployment insurance benefits, social assistance, retirement pensions and other types of benefits.

Poverty is a vicious circle which is very difficult to break without outside help, particularly if you are a woman who is a single parent and who must work to ensure her survival and that of her children. Yet these women are most likely to find underpaid jobs. They are classic victims of the precariousness of employment and the division of work, a modern calamity for a society in constant evolution which strikes young workers and women.

Another economic burden supported by single mothers is the excessive cost of housing. According to Statistics Canada, 54 per cent of single parent families were renting the dwelling in which they lived. The rate is much lower for men who are heads of single parent families, since it is around 37 per cent. What is alarming is the fact that 56 per cent of single parents who are women spend more than 30 per cent of their income on housing, while, and so much the better, only 32 per cent of single parents who are men spend the same proportion of their income on housing.

Today, on March 8, we must acknowledge that the situation of women is tragic. The era of collective impoverishment has very much arrived and the question is how long it will last. In the meantime, Canadian women are paying the price. Everyone in this House agrees that poverty is a problem which must be solved. We must go to the root of that problem right now. The government has not only a political and administrative responsibility, but also a moral responsibility towards Canadians. Wishful thinking, white books, sham policies and political programs which turn from red to blue with every possible nuance no longer have their place in 1994.

This government can, if it wants and especially if it so believes, show the way by facilitating access to education and employment for single mothers, and that includes, among other initiatives, the setting up of a national day care network which would be primarily available to those families who need it the most. And, Madam Speaker, as you know, these families are the ones headed by women.

Another measure could be taken to improve the financial situation of single mothers. An increasing number of women are being economically discriminated against because of a provision of the Federal Income Tax Act concerning the taxation of support payments made to the parents who are given custody of the children and who are women for the most part, as we well know. We will not have to mention it anymore, since it is becoming so obvious. Right now, the tax reform undertaken by the government does not address the issue.

The principle according to which any deductible amount for the payer, that is the ex-husband, is added to the income of the recipient, that is the single mother who has custody of the children, dates back to the 1940s. At that time, Madam Speaker, we were both quite young.

Everyone will agree that our society has changed significantly during the last 50 years. The government must accept its responsibilities and reconsider this principle which greatly affects the financial security of single mothers. Those are only a few of the measures which could improve the financial situation of women, of their family and of all members of our society.

The wealth and the vitality of a society largely depends on its concern for the young. Healthy kids make for healthy families. The basic needs of an individual must be fulfilled for him or her to grow. Our young people need to be well-fed, to be well-housed, to have some place warm to go, and to be loved in order to grow and become reliable and happy adults.

During the Year of the Family, I think it is the responsibility of members of this House and of this government to do whatever they can to ensure all families in Quebec and in Canada enjoy the best health possible. I am convinced that on this day, March 8, our leaders have listened a bit more carefully to the needs of our society.

Madam Speaker, what I should have told you earlier is that, starting with my speech, our interventions will last ten minutes.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Ottawa West Ontario

Liberal

Marlene Catterall LiberalParliamentary Secretary to President of the Treasury Board

Madam Speaker, I am very pleased today to join my colleagues in saluting International Women's Day.

I am very pleased to join you today to celebrate the International Women's Day, which gives us the opportunity to acknowledge all the progress made by women as well as the improvements yet to come. We are lucky to live in such a prosperous country as Canada, but Canadian women still have a long way to go to live in all the comfort enjoyed by Canadian men.

While we celebrate the achievements of women and generate new energy and co-operation for continued progress and growth, our commitment to a goal of economic equality for Canada and everywhere in the world must remain strong. We want Canada to continue to be a world leader in the pursuit of this goal.

Canada will continue to set an example for the world in its defence and respect of the rights and freedoms of individuals. The right of women to be treated equally with men without discrimination is enshrined in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and specified in the Canadian Human Rights Act.

As we speak about equality, we speak often about social equality and we speak often about political equality. Increasingly however we as policy makers and we as women realize that political and social equality will remain elusive goals until we have economic equality.

In recent years, the pursuit of economic equality for women has been linked to a simple but important concept, equal pay for work of equal value. This concept goes beyond the notion that

men and women should be paid the same when they are performing the same work.

The reality is that men and women tend to do different kinds of work, for whatever traditional reasons that has happened, that is the reality. Whether they are performing the same or different work, they deserve to be paid fairly. We need to find ways to measure and compare the value of work that is significantly different.

I have to ask a question. Why is a dog catcher paid twice as much as a child care worker? How does the work performed by a secretary compare to that performed by an electrician? Is it worth more or is it worth less? We now have the tools required to make that assessment and to ensure that when jobs are found to be of equal value appropriate wages, equal wages, are provided.

The federal government is the largest employer of women in this country. For that reason this government wants to show employers across the country that it is simply good business to pay men and women fairly and to pay them equally if they are performing work of equal value.

After all, a fair wage will allow employers to recruit and retain qualified workers who will contribute to the quality of their service or product into their competitive edge. More important perhaps, a fair wage will enable women to become full partners in the economic growth of our country.

Women expect to receive fair wages for the work they perform. They deserve to receive fair wages for that work and this government is working toward that goal.

Since the proclamation of the Canadian Human Rights Act in 1978 that enacted and enshrined the principle of equal pay for work of equal value or pay equity, the government, the Canadian Human Rights Commission, unions and employees have worked toward making it a reality.

Many complaints have been resolved co-operatively. Many others and far too many others have been the subject of long and bitter battles. This has been a period of learning, a period of trial and error. This government wants to build on these experiences and ensure that equal pay for work of equal value is achieved through the joint efforts of all interested parties.

In 1985 in the public service a joint union-management study on equal pay for work of equal value was undertaken in the federal public service. Today the results of the study are being contested in front of the Human Rights Tribunal. I do not need to tell anybody who is familiar with the whole progress of that case that it has indeed been long and contentious and that we sitting on the other side of the House objected to the strategies and tactics of the previous government in what we felt was delaying the work of that tribunal.

However the Human Rights Commission does have the responsibility to investigate all complaints of violations of the Canadian Human Rights Act and to order corrective actions where it concludes that violations have occurred.

This Liberal government fully endorses the important role of the Human Rights Commission and of human rights tribunals in protecting Canadians from discrimination and eliminating discriminatory practices.

In spite of the continuing debate, a lot of good came from the joint union-management initiative on equal pay. It was the first time that a joint endeavour had been undertaken to implement section 11 of the Canadian Human Rights Act.

A great deal was learned. Until now 70,000 employees in predominantly female occupational groups received approximately $317 million in retroactive equal pay adjustments. Approximately $81 million is paid in ongoing annual adjustments.

Overall since the enactment of the federal equal pay legislation over $500 million has been paid in equal pay adjustments in the resolution of various complaints. Much has been achieved and much has been learned. We as a government continue to work toward a full resolution of the issue.

The achievement of equal pay for work of equal value requires the use of a common tool to evaluate all jobs whether they are performed predominantly by men or by women. That tool must be gender neutral. It must not be based on the traditional differences in what roles women have assumed and what roles men have assumed. It must recognize the value of all aspects of the work performed whether traditionally by men or by women.

This is why this government will pursue efforts undertaking to develop a universal classification standard in the federal public service that is gender neutral. Many dedicated persons have already committed their time and effort to this project. It is not an easy task to revamp the whole job evaluation system of an organization the size and complexity of the Public Service of Canada.

We want to ensure that the universal classification standard is the right tool to achieve our goals of simplicity, transparency and fairness. When we are satisfied that it is, we will implement it to ensure we have a durable basis for the resolution of pay equity issues.

After the Canadian Human Rights Act was passed in 1978 many provinces followed suit and enacted legislation on equal pay for work of equal value. The more recent provincial models are more prescriptive and specific than the model we adopted early on at the federal level.

As a result of the growing interest across the country in the achievement of pay equity, there is a growing library of ideas, experiences and jurisprudence in this field in Canada today.

However, equal pay for work of equal value remains a field rife with controversy. Parties in every part of the country debate over the right evaluation tool or plan, the right job data, the right wage comparison methodology.

I can assure hon. members today that this government is interested in results. Government is looking for real, realistic and realizable means of achieving this important goal for the economic equality of Canadian women. We are continuing to address equal pay for work of equal value complaints and issues as they arise. We will use whatever creative means are necessary to ensure that fairness and equity are achieved.

Already the President of Treasury Board has engaged in dialogue with public service unions. We welcome their suggestions on any matter that may enable us to reach a definitive and co-operative solution to pay equity complaints.

Indeed, this government wants to establish ties of co-operation and trust with union representatives in the federal Public Service. We are going through hard economic times and we must co-operate to minimize the impact on employees, while continuing to provide quality service to all Canadians.

Some hon. members know the Canadian Human Rights Act applies to employees of the federal government, crown corporations and private companies under federal jurisdiction such as banks and telephone companies. It covers approximately 300,000 women workers. I am confident the implementation of equal pay for work of equal value in the federal public sector will set a precedent for similar progress in industries across the country. That is why it is so important we get it right.

On this important day I am pleased to play a part in the resolution of the economic concerns of Canadian women. I am determined to help make progress toward the economic equality of women with their male co-workers. Equal pay for work of equal value is only one step, albeit an important one in achieving this economic equality.

I have long been appalled by the wage gap reported in an industrialized country as prosperous as ours. Full implementation of equal pay for work of equal value will not fully close that wage gap, but it will go a long way. Unequal wages do not fully explain the wage gap.

One of the major problems is the concentration of women in certain occupations which are usually low paying. Women remain concentrated in traditionally female jobs. In 1991 over 50 per cent of women in Canada were concentrated in clerical, sales and service jobs whereas just over 20 per cent of men were in those occupations. Coincidentally these happen to be among the lowest paid jobs in our society.

To achieve economic equality equal pay for work of equal value programs need to be coupled with diversification in the work choices available to women. Just as important is the need to eliminate all types of employment discrimination so that women have equal opportunities based on their ability to move into management, to move into any kind of job that is suited to their talents, their abilities and their interests.

We often hear and there have been comments to this effect in this House today that employment equity is discriminatory. Employment equity eliminates discrimination. Employment equity ensures that only one's ability matters in whether one gets hired or promoted or advances in employment.

Economic equality for women in Canada and elsewhere can only be achieved with a combination of programs such as pay equity and employment equity. I personally intend to play an important role in these fields and to challenge all employers in Canada to be models for the whole world of employers who treat their female employees equally.

I thank you for your attention. I compliment all my colleagues who participated in this debate today.