Debates of June 10th, 1994

Immigration

[Fernand Robichaud, Liberal, Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs)]

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, I want to reassure the hon. member and tell her that I will certainly provide her with the information requested. Indeed, I will make sure that the minister answers her concerns.

[Sharon Hayes, Reform, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his response.

A refugee program includes both the inland refugee system and our UNHCR commitment to offshore refugees. If this current inland rate persists is the minister determined to increase our total refugee numbers, or will he renege on Canada's international obligation to needy refugees around the world?

[Fernand Robichaud, Liberal, Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs)]

Mr. Speaker, unless I am mistaken, the Reform Party proposes to reduce immigration levels by half.

I think that the minister of immigration does not share that view. However, I want to assure the hon. member that I will inform the minister of her concerns, and I am convinced that he will provide an answer at the earliest opportunity.

Youth

[Walt Lastewka, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Secretary State for Training and Youth. A few weeks ago the secretary of state and the Minister of Human Resources Development announced some 37 youth services corps lead sites, including one for my own riding with the Institute for Enterprise Education which will help young people obtain entrepreneurial skills.

Given the great enthusiasm expressed by young Canadians for the program, could the secretary of state report to the House on the progress being made in its implementation? Could she also give us an indication when other lead sites might be announced?

[Ethel Blondin-Andrew, Liberal, Secretary of State (Training and Youth)]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's riding is one of six lead sites which are being implemented in Ontario. The Institute for Enterprise Education will provide 15 young Canadians with the opportunity to develop business and entrepreneurial skills. All lead sites will be up and running by the end of July.

I am also pleased to announce that another set of 20 to 30 lead sites will be announced at the beginning of next month.

Forestry

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. On Wednesday, the Minister of Natural Resources announced that she intended to develop federal standards on sustainable forest management, with a view to introduce a national certification program for forest products.

Since forests are a strictly provincial field of jurisdiction, does the Deputy Prime Minister feel that such an initiative is legitimate without the agreement of all provinces? Does she not think that the provinces should, together, agree on common

standards for sustainable forest management, instead of the federal government getting involved?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague, the Minister of Natural Resources, took on that task at the request of the provinces, precisely to clarify, for the international market, existing practices in all Canadian provinces. I am convinced that the hon. member for Abitibi-Témiscamingue, among others, knows that the international market for forest products is important, not only for Quebec, but also for Canada.

Canada Health Act

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a question for the health minister.

One of the planks of the Canada Health Act is accessibility. Accessibility is measurable. The waiting list for cataract surgery one year ago in Ontario was three and one-third months, with 4,065 people on that waiting list. Today the waiting list is four and a half months, with 4,662 patients on the waiting list. How does that fit into reasonable access?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we are always concerned that there be reasonable access to services. We continue to work with the provinces. As a matter of fact, one of the things we did in the last budget was maintain transfer payments in health to give an indication of our commitment toward the funding of proper health care services in the provinces.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Audrey McLaughlin, NDP, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

Yesterday in the House we heard that the policy of the Reform Party was based on the premise that First Nations' members are lazy children. The speaker from Capilano-Howe Sound also said that this might be against conventional wisdom. I would suggest it is unconventional ignorance.

The New Democratic Party's position is that the Government of Canada has a longstanding historic obligation, shared by provinces and territories, to negotiate land claims in good faith with aboriginal people.

Would the parliament secretary tell the House what the federal government's interpretation is of the obligations to First Nations?

[Jack Iyerak Anawak, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, from the Prime Minister on down the government is committed to ensuring that aboriginal people are given a fair representation in the House. That commitment has been made clear in the last six months that the government has been in power.

The government will continue to ensure that the aboriginal people are fairly represented in the House as long as we are here.

[The Speaker]

I have a point of privilege and a point of order which I will hear forthwith.

The hon. member for Nunatsiaq on a point of privilege.

Privilege

[Jack Iyerak Anawak, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

I rise today on a point of privilege stemming from remarks made yesterday in the House by the member for Capilano-Howe Sound. The member's comments about aboriginal people have denigrated me, my work and my value to the House. As an aboriginal person, my character, my background, my credibility, my values, my motivations and my capabilities have been questioned.

Slurs, aspersions and racial stereotypes were tossed out yesterday with no regard for the injurious effects upon myself, the hon. member for Western Arctic and the hon. member for Churchill. I and they have been discredited and dishonoured because of our racial background.

As a consequence, the House has also been brought into disrepute. The member should have kept the people of Canada thinking that maybe he is merely ignorant of aboriginal issues, instead of proving it.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member surely has a grievance. I do not think it is a point of privilege.

I would remind all hon. members that one of our most treasured privileges and rights is the freedom of speech. I would rule that there would be no point of privilege in this particular case. However I would advise that perhaps the hon. member, in view of the fact that debate is not finished, could make his point of view known in future debate.

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, as a matter of clarification.

Am I to understand that when one raises a point of privilege in this place that a decision will be taken before the point of privilege can be fully made? I think it would be instructive for members on both sides to recognize just how far we can go-

[The Speaker]

I believe that the Chair is more than willing to hear a full report on a point of privilege.

The Chair is guided of course by the fact that privilege is very narrow. Far be it from me to lecture this honourable House but I would like to point out that privilege has to do with the impediment of a member of Parliament carrying out his or her responsibilities and duties.

Among these duties is for all hon. members to be able to speak freely, to be able to come to the House and to committees and to vote. As the hon. member is present, as the hon. member is speaking, I do not see any question of privilege. That is why I interceded as quickly as I did.

I hope hon. members will take this into consideration. My ruling is simply that it is not a question of privilege.

Points Of Order

[Audrey McLaughlin, NDP, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today on a point of order.

Yesterday in the House, the member for Capilano-Howe Sound used what I consider to be language of profound disrespect and fundamental bias against the First Nations of this country, in particular the people of Yukon. I advised the member for Capilano-Howe Sound that I would be raising this point of order today.

In particular, I refer to the phase that First Nations people are to be seen as "lazy children". I would ask whether the member was referring, by using that phrase, to the late Elijah Smith who fought in World War II for this country and who came back to fight the struggle within for his people in Yukon; whether he was referring to the aboriginal members of the Legislature of the Yukon Assembly, Speaker Johnny Abel, Danny Joe, Margaret Commodore, the first Indian Speaker in Canada, Sam Johnston, and Norma Kassi who fights for the environment.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Audrey McLaughlin, NDP, Yukon, YT]

I am concluding but I would ask if he was referring Skookum Jim, one of the discoverers of gold. Perhaps he was referring to the Yukon chiefs, the aboriginal lawyers, aboriginal nurses, miners, truckers, farmers, teachers, board members, clerks, secretaries, businessmen, businesswomen, writers, artists, trappers, mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers.

[The Speaker]

The Chair is very much aware that in the process of debate very strong positions are put forward. What the Chair must ensure is that there is a chance for all hon. members to speak in the House. The hon. member brings up her point of order. Perhaps the hon. member could defer until the hon. member who made the statements is in the House.

The hon. member indicated that she was concluding. I will permit her to conclude and we will go from there.

[Audrey McLaughlin, NDP, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that very much.

Members will understand that as the member of Parliament for Yukon, I feel very strongly about this. I will be very brief.

It is clear to the House, it is certainly clear to me as the member for the Yukon and to the people of Yukon, aboriginal and non-aboriginal, that the Reform Party will come to a discussion of this issue with a prior prejudice against First Nations' people as lazy children.

Therefore, as the member for Yukon, I ask the House to remove the Reform Party members from the committee struck-

[The Speaker]

Order. When these statements were made in the House, as far as I can ascertain they caused no disorder. A few remarks were made. I would encourage all hon. members, in view of the fact that the debate on this bill is ongoing for the next little while, that they can make their views known there.

As a ruling, I find there is no point of order in this particular case. Again I would encourage all hon. members to be very judicious in their remarks as some remarks made in the heat of debate can be very hurtful to different groups.

I would again encourage all hon. members to be very judicious in all of the remarks they make in the House.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

I accept the advice and accept fully the caution of the Chair for all members to keep the tone and level of discussion on this matter at a level where it is productive and constructive. Mr. Speaker, let me begin by saying that because it is hurtful to all members of the House in every party, including the Reform Party I hope and believe.

When one member speaks in such a manner about an entire group of people, it casts aspersions on the whole House. It calls into question the character, integrity and dignity of the whole House. I hope that all members, without exception, from every party will dissociate themselves from the words of this one member who has clearly lost any connection to decency and to intelligence and the dignity of this debate.

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, I guess it proves a point. I know that we want to get into this debate because it is really debate now. That is what has opened up.

I submit with all respect to all of you, my colleagues, that this debate continues and I expect all points of view strongly held to be put forth in the House. But I would suggest at this point this is becoming debate. We are beyond the points of order. That is clearly not a point of order. It is a point of debate.

I would again caution all members to be very judicious in their remarks.

Is this the same point of order? I have heard quite a bit. This is not a point of order. We are into debate now.

Order. Is the member rising on the same point of order? I would rule the hon. member out of order.

The hon. member for Carleton-Gloucester.

[Translation]

[Eugène Bellemare, Liberal, Carleton—Gloucester, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the minister of heritage. May I put my question?