Debates of Sept. 26th, 1994

Pension Plans

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I have already answered this question. What we are really seeking is a consultation process that is as open as possible. It is not for me to talk about or comment on particular suggestions as long as the finance committee has not presented its report. I am certain that the hon. member does not want to interfere with the process we have set in motion.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will rephrase my question: is the minister going to go on attacking middle income earners and ordinary taxpayers by taxing RRSPs and pension plans or is he going to go after the 2,000 taxpayers who last year did not pay a cent in taxes, rich Canadian individuals and companies who, more often than not, are defrauding Revenue Canada? This is the real question, Mr. Speaker.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, clearly, in our last budget, we closed some of the loopholes which allowed some Canadians to not pay any taxes, namely by eliminating the $100,000 capital gain exemption which was by far the main reason for this.

It is very clear that what the member really wants is to do away with the consultation process. I would like to quote what the Reform member for Lethbridge had to say about our consultation process. "It is the most open budget process I ever was involved in. Efforts to open up the budget process and to take into account pre-budget consultations are a welcome innovation".

Could it be that the Bloc Quebecois is less democratic than the Reform Party?

Aboriginal Affairs

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, many native communities in Canada have squalid conditions.

The health minister today announced a $243 million program to alleviate some of the squalid conditions. The Canadian Medical Association has other solutions: clean water, more aboriginal physicians.

I wonder if the minister could comment on whether her program addresses those fundamental problems of our natives.

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the announcement this morning had to do with the health of aboriginal communities, helping them heal themselves. It is meant to

deal with the very real problems of aboriginal suicide, solvent abuse and nursing problems.

That is my responsibility and I am very committed to it. I think we have made a great step forward in helping aboriginal communities help themselves.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General has identified $85 million in inefficiencies in the non-insured native health care plan.

Can the minister tell us today what mechanisms there are in this program to address accountability and inefficiency?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we have taken some steps to address the concerns of the Auditor General. In this particular program we are working with aboriginals so they administer their own programs.

When a person takes responsibility of his own actions then the dollars spent are spent far more wisely.

Lobbyists

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, lobbyists have just shown how effective they are. According to documents obtained under the Access to Information Act, they have apparently managed to influence the very legislation that was to limit their influence.

Does the Prime Minister admit that, once again, lobbyists have demonstrated their effectiveness by extensively watering down the red book's commitment to limit their sphere of influence?

[Dennis Mills, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to bring to the member's attention that this bill is before the parliamentary committee right now. We will be listening to all recommendations.

At this point there is opportunity for amendments. If those amendments make sense then the government will look at them.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I consider the reply to be a negation of my statement, and I ask the Prime Minister again, in light of this reply, how he can say that this bill has not been influenced by lobbyists, given the noticeable absence of provisions to force lobbyists to divulge their fees as well as provisions to eliminate the tax deduction for expenses incurred by businesses to engage the services of lobbyists, provisions they were demanding when they formed the opposition.

[Dennis Mills, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, we have taken all of the recommendations that the previous parliamentary committee put forward during the last session of Parliament.

As I stated earlier in my answer, it is before committee right now and work is just beginning. Our second session is this afternoon. We fully expect that members of the opposition will bring ideas forward. We will debate these. If they are in the best interests of making the bill better then we are prepared to amend the bill.

Electoral Boundaries Readjustment Act

[Réginald Bélair, Liberal, Cochrane—Superior, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the government House leader. I have obtained a draft of the report of the Electoral Boundaries Commission for Ontario recommending that the riding of Cochrane-Superior be abolished and annexed to existing ridings.

My question is for the government House leader. What can the eleven members of Northern Ontario ridings and their constituents do to ensure that we may continue to be represented by eleven members in this House instead of ten, as recommended by the commission?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has raised an important point. As the House knows, the House committee on procedure and elections is currently holding hearings with a view to making recommendations for new legislation on redistribution. I understand it may be completing its work in the next month or so.

The government will take that report seriously when presenting new legislation. If that legislation is adopted before next June then the process which has so concerned the hon. member and his colleagues will not go into effect. Instead the redistribution will be based on the new legislation.

Agriculture

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Lisgar—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Speaker, last Thursday two Manitoba farmers had their homes searched by Canada customs officials and RCMP to confiscate documents related to the export of wheat to the U.S. One of these farmers was not even given the opportunity to be at home when three special customs agents and six RCMP approached his wife and family with search warrants.

My question is for the right hon. Prime Minister. Is this the Liberal government's approach to dealing with hard working farmers who are trying to make a decent living?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, it would not be appropriate for any member of the House of Commons to comment on an RCMP investigation. The question should be directed to the Solicitor General or to the Minister of National Revenue.

On the policy issue that is involved there are obviously laws in place in Canada today dealing with the appropriate procedure by which grain may be exported. In a civilized and democratic society it is important that all of the laws be obeyed, not just those with which we may selectively agree or disagree.

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Vegreville, AB]

Mr. Speaker, one of the farmers my colleague referred to is Andy McMechan who took advantage of the open borders guaranteed under the free trade agreement to avert foreclosure by the Farm Credit Corporation.

Why is the Prime Minister and his cabinet treating these farmers like drug dealers with these heavy-handed tactics?

[An hon. member]

They are breaking the law.

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Vegreville, AB]

Why do they not instead do the right thing and allow farmers to elect a board of directors to give them control over their organization, the Canadian Wheat Board?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, in response to a question in the House last week pertaining to marketing systems for Canadian wheat, I indicated that I would be providing a forum later on this fall at which the differing views on the subject can be expressed.

It is true to say that there are farmers in western Canada who hold profoundly different opinions on the question of the appropriate marketing system to have in place for their grain. I think it is appropriate that they should be provided with a forum within which the different sides of that particular debate can be aired so that when any future decisions are made they are based on facts and solid information and not merely on innuendo.

Fishing Quotas

[Yvan Bernier, Bloc, Gaspé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last July, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans refused to grant Quebec fishermen turbot fishing quotas after having encouraged them in the spring to gear up for this type of operation.

Considering that it was at his suggestion that they equipped themselves for turbot fishing, does the fisheries minister undertake today to fully compensate Gaspesian fishermen, who have invested one million dollars to be able to fish the quotas the minister subsequently refused them?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I am extremely surprised at this question, given that on at least three or four occasions the member asked me for private discussions just outside that door about this matter. On each of those occasions I explained to the member that the scientific evidence with respect to turbot was very bad. He agreed. I told the member that it was extremely unlikely that there would be new licences.

The member knows it is absolutely false to suggest that the federal government encouraged people either in Quebec or in Newfoundland, because this occurred in both places, to gear up for a fishery that was not going to take place.

The member should also know that on Monday past the wisdom of the federal position in Ottawa in taking a conservationists stance was confirmed when the North Atlantic Fisheries Organization and all of the member states from around the world in that organization slashed international quotas by over 50 per cent and for the first time regulated the turbot catch because of the critical condition of these stocks.

[Yvan Bernier, Bloc, Gaspé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is in the public domain. Informal discussions-I would also like to remind the hon. minister that, on July 25, he publicly stated that he had encouraged the fishermen to do so. I will give him another chance and phrase my question differently.

How can the minister reconcile refusing turbot quotas to Gaspesian fishermen with offering the major part of the remaining turbot quota to a single company, namely Seafreez, a company located in his riding and one that used Russian trawlers?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, what the member is not saying-and this is regrettable, and may I say to the member personally, surprising-is that the Seafreez operation he is talking about is up in the Davis Strait in area O. It is an area so far north that no Canadian vessel of any sort is operating there or has ever operated there, and no vessel in Quebec or Newfoundland or anywhere in Atlantic Canada has the technological ability to be up there.

With the exception of the offshore shrimp fleet, what the hon. member is not saying is that Seafreez has been up there for the last five or six years and had developed this fishery in the day when the previous administration and a minister on the other side of the House made those decisions.

To somehow give the impression as had been left, that this is a new decision and a new allocation by the current minister is false. Not a pound of the turbot is processed in Newfoundland, let alone my riding. It is processed in Canso, Nova Scotia.

Justice

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Comox—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on February 4 I asked the justice minister to take action to review the Patrick Kelly case.

Despite the fact the minister said he would act on this matter, seven months have passed and still Mr. Kelly's lawyer has not received the complete police files necessary to prepare for the review.

Will the minister commit to the House that he will release the complete set of police files immediately?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, in the last analysis, because this is an application under section 690 of the Criminal Code, I am personally responsible for dealing with the merits of Mr. Kelly's application for the crown's mercy.

It is a responsibility I take very seriously. The process that has been in place since the day we received the application in early 1994 has been monitored on a regular basis.

The member makes reference to police records. Representatives on my behalf attended at the police headquarters in Toronto to review the entire police file. We have taken the position with counsel for Mr. Kelly that we will disclose to him all of those records that are relevant to the issues raised in the application, and that will be done.

I can tell the hon. member that day by day and week by week I am monitoring this investigation. It is being conducted thoroughly and is entirely in accordance with reasonable time limits.