Debates of Oct. 31st, 1995

The Constitution

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I was very pleased at the big rally in Montreal, where there were more than 100,000 people, to see the premiers of Ontario, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia there to show their solidarity. They showed the Quebec people that they wanted Quebec to remain in Canada. They also wanted to show their appreciation for the contribution of Quebecers since Confederation. I was very proud to see the premiers there. I noted there were not many Reform people there.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, holding rallies in the country is a far cry from good strategy.

My question is again for the Prime Minister. Will the Prime Minister commit today to a process to ensure more authority for the provinces by giving them the tools to pursue their distinctiveness by decentralizing powers equally in the federation, in particular in areas like tourism, culture, language and natural resources? Give an answer, for a change.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, all the powers the member mentioned are provincial powers. The only intervention by the federal government is to give money to the provinces in these areas. We use our spending power to give money in these areas. In the area of culture, for example, yes, the province of Quebec receives more than the proportion of population because it is where the milieu of the French culture is found. The reason a lot of the grants in relation to the French language are given to Quebec is that Quebec est le foyer de la langue française. We recognize that.

However, we do not have the constitutional power in those areas. The powers are with the provinces. We sometimes distribute money to give an equality of chances to the people. The reality in Canada is that we have parts of Canada where people are rich and parts of Canada where people are poor. It is the value of the Canadian mentality that the parts of Canada that have money help the people who need money in other parts of Canada.

Transfer Payments

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

Cuts in transfer payments to the provinces announced in the last federal budget will mean a $650 million shortfall for Quebec next year. By 1997-98, the shortfall in Quebec caused by federal cutbacks will range anywhere from $1.2 to $1.9 billion, depending on the distribution method.

Now that the referendum is over, can the Minister of Finance tell us on what basis he plans to distribute the Canada social transfer among the provinces and if he still intends, as suggested in his budget speech, to use population as a criterion, which would mean that more than 40 per cent of all cuts made in Canada would be made in Quebec alone?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, every time the hon. member quotes these figures, he fails to mention equalization, which is a very important system by which the federal government transfers funds to the provinces and to the people of Quebec.

That being said, no distribution criterion was mentioned in the budget. We said that we would hold discussions with the provinces,

and I expect to meet with my provincial counterparts before long to really get these discussions going.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question was clear, yet, as usual, I did not get an answer. When questions are put to the Minister of Finance, they never get answered anyway.

When does the Minister of Finance intend to announce the extent of the cuts he is about to make in Quebec and to disclose the actual figures that he has been deliberately hiding from the people of Quebec during the referendum campaign?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, we were quite clear in the budget. We announced the framework in which we wanted our negotiations with the provinces to take place. The hon. member would not want me, I am sure, to make an announcement in this House, quoting figures that we have not even started discussing. Discussions will have to be held with the provinces, and that is certainly what we intend to do.

The Economy

[Barry Campbell, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Secretary of State for Financial Institutions. One of the greatest concerns of Canadians during the referendum campaign was economic stability. After last night's vote for Canada, markets have stabilized and the dollar has strengthened.

People expect the federal government to ensure the stability of the financial system. Could the secretary of state tell the House what the government is doing to protect Canadians from the shocks that may arise from unauthorized trading in derivatives?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to hear the member's interest in that subject because the government believes the derivatives market is an important market in the country. The Superintendent of Financial Institutions has taken some major steps in the last little while to handle that.

First there has been a guideline for best practices in derivatives and then last Friday there was a guideline on derivatives disclosures to improve public disclosure. Both these measures are important developments for the safety and security of the financial system.

Official Opposition

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has catered to the separatists in the House. His government supports them as the official opposition. His government has elected them as committee chairmen and his government has changed the agenda of the House for the separatists. The separatists in the House have been granted special preferential treatment.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Why is this happening and when is it going to stop?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I will be the defender of British tradition in the House of Commons. Under this parliamentary system there is an official opposition. We do not choose it; we take it as it comes. The tradition is that in committees we allocate jobs according to the status of the official opposition. They are members of Parliament. They are members of Parliament elected to come to Ottawa.

They wanted to break up Canada and they did not succeed yesterday, so they are still members of Parliament in Canada and they have the right to sit on committees. With respect, it is a tradition developed in the British parliamentary system, and coming from rural Quebec I am happy to defend the British tradition.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, the reason the separatists are in the House is the Liberal people who have sat in the House for some 30 years have not dealt with the problem before.

We have been in the House for 45 days and there has been no agenda except for the agenda of the separatists. There has been no legislation before us. There has been no fiscal plan. The country is leaderless and the government sits and still does not give us any leadership.

As the House leader for the Reform Party, where and when will we have an agenda for Canadians rather than an agenda for the separatists?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the House has been dealing with important legislation presented by the government each and every day the House has been sitting. It has been dealing with private members' legislation, in some cases presented by the Reform Party.

The oddest thing about the rather odd question of the Reform Party House leader is that on a number of these occasions he has participated in the debates. He must be in a dream world more than he usually is.

Goods And Services Tax

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, allow me to remind the Prime Minister that, before making petty comments on the official opposition, he should remember that, yesterday, a majority of his constituents voted yes in the referendum.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. During the last federal election campaign, the Liberals, and particularly the Prime Minister, promised to eliminate the GST by January 1996. On March 2, 1994, the Prime Minister again said: "We hate that tax and we will abolish it".

Can the Minister of Finance tell us why, after more than two years in office, he still has not made good on his promise to abolish the GST, and whether or not he intends to fulfill that commitment before January?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, a commitment was made to replace the GST with a tax that would be fair and much more effective for consumers and small businesses in Canada. Clearly, these groups want a harmonized tax. We are having discussions with the provinces, because this issue requires co-operation from both sides.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that effectiveness is always slow to come. I have a supplementary for the Minister of Finance.

Does he still intend, as do his Liberal colleagues on the finance committee, to go ahead with a suggestion to hide the GST in the sale price and to impose that tax on food items and on drugs? Is that the type of change proposed by the Minister of Finance to his provincial counterparts?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, we are having discussions with the provinces on that issue. Something will eventually come out of those discussions. The hon. member knows full well that the whole issue of whether that tax will be included or not depends on the provincial laws. I am sure that he would want us to respect the true boundaries of provincial an federal jurisdiction.

Training

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development has used every available excuse to avoid making meaningful social reform. He keeps telling us he has offered to the provinces the responsibility for manpower training.

When will the minister specifically give power to the provinces for manpower training?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, to use the old saying, it takes two to tango. We can only get an agreement when the provinces are prepared to agree. We are actively engaged with several provinces at present to work out how we can collaborate and work together on developing a much more effective program.

I remind the hon. member for Calgary Southeast that the real issue in the country is what is the most effective way in which all governments can work together to get people back to work? It is not a question of jurisdiction or power; it is a question of getting people back to work and how we can work together to achieve that end.

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let us focus for a minute. Yesterday and last week the minister stated he had offered manpower training to the provinces. Yet after having contacted three provincial governments I have confirmed that the minister has not made any official offer to the provinces to give them manpower training. Instead he is holding up negotiations.

If the minister is truly committed to giving manpower training to the provinces, why are the governments of B.C., Alberta and Ontario not aware of any offer?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the reason they are probably not aware is that the message was so garbled by the hon. member that they did not understand what was being discussed.

We have already signed an agreement with the province of Saskatchewan. I have met with the ministers of each of the provinces mentioned. We offered a year ago to put on the table a transfer of responsibility for institutional training to all the provinces but they do not want to respond just yet. It is their responsibility.

In the full atmosphere of open co-operation and reaching out, any time a provincial minister wants to make a deal with me I will be there for that meeting.

Banking

[Alex Shepherd, Liberal, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Secretary of State responsible for International Financial Institutions.

The banks of this country are holding customers' cheques for final clearance often for weeks. Everyone knows the banks within our system clear their cheques within 24 hours. The United States banks are required to pay up after 72 hours.

What will the minister do to stop the banks from profiting from this practice at the expense of average Canadians?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to say we have a clearing system in Canada which does same day clearance of both the debit and credit side of items. The banks, in their internal organizations, occasionally hold funds but

the credit to the account is made right away. There is no loss of interest. The interest is paid, I understand, in most cases right away from the date of deposit.

Purchase Of Submarines

[Jean H. Leroux, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Great Britain is maintaining its offer to sell four submarines to the Canadian Navy for $500 million dollars plus the use of our military bases.

The British Minister of Defence has indicated that the offer is still valid, despite the Canadian government's delay in proceeding with the transaction.

My question is for the Minister of Defence. Given the terrible financial situation the federal government is in, can the Minister of Defence tell us whether he has given up on the idea of purchasing four used British submarines for $500 million plus other considerations?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, there has been no decision to date.