Debates of Nov. 23rd, 1995

Public Service

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

First of all, Mr. Speaker, as I just said, this is explained, in the one hand, by the fact that some employees have agreed to retire sooner than anticipated and, on the other hand, by the fact

that there are more people in certain areas than in others, but that is not a problem for the government because this will save us money down the road.

Gun Control

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the governments of the provinces, particularly Manitoba, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario as well as the two territories all registered opposition to the registration component of Bill C-68.

How does the government plan to gain the co-operation of these governments after having forced the bill upon them against their will?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the hon. member has noted that Parliament has now adopted a bill designed to ensure that we have peaceful communities-

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Windsor West, ON]

-and designed to ensure we have increasingly safe homes and safe streets in this country.

I am sure the provincial governments will take note of the strong support for this measure across the country which will inspire their co-operation.

In any event, the Minister of Justice has announced today the appointment of a user group on firearms, composed of people from across the country who are responsible firearms users. This will be a very important way to make sure we have a cost effective, user friendly system of firearms registration which takes into account the concerns of responsible firearms users.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member would have us believe that the provincial governments do not have any consideration for the safety of their communities and their streets and that only the federal government can see that kind of safety within the bill.

The federal-provincial financial agreements for the administration of gun control programs expired on March 31, 1993. I ask the government, what is the status of these financial negotiations with the provinces? Have these agreements been renewed and if not, why not?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I will have to get further information on this for my hon. friend. It is the desire of the government to have agreements with the provinces which respect their concerns and at the same time ensure the safety of Canadians.

I hope my hon. friend will finally realize the support of Canadians for this bill and cease his opposition, which is certainly not well founded in light of the facts and in light of the support of Canadians who want safe homes and safe streets. They do not want an American style gun culture anywhere in Canada.

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage. Mr. Manera, the former CBC President, and Mr. Beatty, the current one, both said that, should the CBC undergo additional cuts, it would be necessary to review the mandate of that corporation.

Does the minister intend to order new cuts to the CBC and, if so, will he review its mandate, as is deemed necessary by Mr. Manera and Mr. Beatty?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has got it all wrong. You do not deal first with the budget and then with the mandate. You start with the mandate and then look at the budget. This is exactly what we are doing.

A committee will make recommendations to us regarding CBC's mandate. We will look at these recommendations, make decisions and then decide on a long term financial plan.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, given that the French network is already performing a lot better than the English one, does the minister realize that any additional cut would have a greater impact on the French network and could jeopardize its mandate?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, there is one aspect regarding CBC's mandate which, I think, will not change. It is the fact that the CBC must respect the linguistic duality of our country. This is a public institution. It is an institution which will continue to reflect that basic reality of our country.

If the hon. member has opinions on the budget cuts made by CBC's president and board of directors and looks to me, it may be that she wants me to manage that corporation. That will not happen. I will merely be the one who decides on CBC's mandate and budget.

Agriculture

[Allan Kerpan, Reform, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

Last March the minister announced that he had instructed the Farm Credit Corporation to turn over the Crow payout to producers who lease land from the FCC. Last month the FCC stated that the minister's benevolent government corporation would increase the producer's share from a very generous 10 per cent up to a whopping 25 per cent.

Why did the FCC defy the minister's instructions? Farmers want to know who is in charge: the minister or his good Liberal friend and party contributor, Mr. Don Jackson?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know what party affiliation Mr. Jackson has. I have never discussed it with him and I do not intend to.

On the substance of the issue, it is obviously not up to me to offer instructions to the FCC in terms of how it manages its business affairs. When the announcement was made in the budget with respect to the $1.6 billion capital payment in the wake of the cancellation of the WGTA, the FCC itself took the initiative to announce that it would find a way to equitably share that benefit with its leasing clients. It offered one particular formula. A number of the clients indicated to the FCC that in the opinion of the clients, they did not think that formula was sufficiently generous. As a consequence, the FCC more than doubled the formula.

[Allan Kerpan, Reform, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the minister and the general manager for the FCC are saying one thing and doing another. The minister has stated that the balance of the payment would be reflected in lower lease and sale agreements, yet documented cases in Saskatchewan show that FCC leases and asking prices have risen by as much as 20 per cent.

Will the minister finally take a stand on something and address this paradox before it is too late?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman is obviously being a bit inconsistent. He invites me to take a stand and every time I do that he criticizes it because it is not the Reform Party position. I would remind him that I was elected as a Liberal, not as a Reformer, and I do not intend to adopt his party's position.

With respect to the arrangements made by the FCC, it anticipates that in the first year of the adjustment to the loss of the Crow rate it will pass through to its tenant clients 12.5 per cent of the value of the Crow payment that it will receive. In the second year it will pass through another 12.5 per cent. It is fully expected by the third year that the impact of the freight rate adjustment will have worked its way through the land pricing system in western Canada and the benefit of reduced land costs will then be adjusted into the capital base.

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the heritage minister.

The heritage minister is attempting to justify the way its government is apportioning the cuts at the CBC by pretending that both the French and the English networks will have to make the same effort.

Can the minister explain why, in 1992-93, according to the most recent numbers available, the production costs for a one hour program were $18,000 on the French network and $37,000 on the English one?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, our colleague does not seem to take into account the fact that the CBC is an independent corporation. I have the responsibility to look after its mandate and its overall financing; the board of directors and the president run the show.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

But then, Mr. Speaker, why has the minister attempted to justify the way the cuts are being apportioned at the CBC? Can the minister explain why a one hour sport program, for instance, costs, for the same time slot, $28,000 on the French network and $70,000 on the English network?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague would like me to be the accountant and the auditor for the CBC, which I am not and will not be.

Confederation Life Insurance Company

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Secretary of State for Financial Institutions.

The pensions and other savings of many present and former Bell Canada employees and many other Canadians have been jeopardized by the collapse of Confederation Life. Could the minister tell us what can be done to help speed up the liquidation process so that these Canadians receive their moneys as quickly as possible?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of interested constituents, and I would suggest to Reform Party

members that some of their constituents might be interested as well in this matter.

The liquidation of Confederation Life is a court supervised process, in case some members did not know that. Responsibility for realizing the value of Confederation Life assets has been passed to a liquidator, Peat Marwick Thorne, under the supervision of the court.

Accordingly, people affected by the failure of Confederation Life should be in contact with the liquidator. The liquidator is responsible for obtaining maximum value for Confederation Life's assets. Again the liquidator does not wish to proceed with fire sale prices which would affect this.

There have been many positive developments since the liquidation began. Many lines of business have been sold and efforts are being made to sell the others.

Cn Rail

[Jim Gouk, Reform, Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the government has indicated some concern in the past about the marketability of the CN shares. It even went so far as to suggest it may sell part now and then the rest of them later on when things improve.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport please tell the House if he anticipates a total sale of the government's shares in CN Rail?

[Joe Fontana, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his great interest in this matter and the question.

As the member will know, this has been the most successful government issue in terms of privatization in our history. In fact the stock issue has gone better than expected.

The member will know that as anticipated it has gone so well that it looks like government may not have to keep any position in CN whatsoever. It will divest itself 100 per cent.

[Jim Gouk, Reform, Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC]

Mr. Speaker, indeed there does seem to be great interest in the stock offering. Many potential Canadian purchasers have been unable to buy shares because of the large percentage offered outside of Canada.

Will the parliamentary secretary please explain to the House and to Canadians why the government rejected the Reform amendment to Bill C-89 which would have seen the share offering to Canadians and Canadian companies only for the first 60 days and would result in Canadian National Railway's remaining in Canadian hands, instead of intentionally selling 40 per cent to 50 per cent to foreign investors.

[Joe Fontana, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the fact that the government wanted to maximize the price for CN was the reason it wanted maximum exposure not only in Canada but in the United States and elsewhere.

We were able to achieve such a good price because of that very reason. Foreign holdings or foreign shares were capped at 40 per cent. That Canadians were able to purchase over 60 per cent of Canadian National bodes very well for the issue.