Debates of Nov. 24th, 1995

Irving Whale

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment.

Last summer, the federal government wasted several million dollars in a failed attempt to refloat the Irving Whale . We are currently unable to get from the environment department the exact amount spent on that botched operation.

How can the minister justify her department's refusal to reveal the terms of the contracts and the amount spent on the failed attempt to refloat the Irving Whale ?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the operation did not fail. It is underway and will be completed next year, following the recommendations made by the former Bloc Quebecois critic for the environment, who said that the Irving Whale was like a time bomb for the environment and had to be refloated.

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister not realize that the public is concerned that, in opting for the cheapest solution under the circumstances, without any regard for the safety of the operation, she started a process which could end up costing taxpayers a lot more than anticipated because of the bad decisions she made?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the total costs of the operation will be borne by the private sector. Moreover, the hon. member and his colleagues should have heeded the advice of the Magdalen Islands RCM board, which is asking the federal government to assume its responsibilities and not fail like the former environment minister, the member for Lac-Saint-Jean, who received letters from Magdalen Islands fishermen, but never bothered to answer them.

We, at least, have taken our responsibilities and are following the unanimous recommendation of the Magdalen Islands RCM to proceed with the operation, so as to get rid of that time bomb for the environment, as the former Bloc member called it.

Indian Affairs

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a few bad apples on the Stony reserve west of Calgary have resumed illegal tree cutting. Grassroots natives have shut down the logging trucks the minister of Indian affairs said he would shut down.

Who will stand on the government side today and justify this environmental mess?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of Indian and northern affairs indicated in response to an earlier question by the member that the government expects the law to be respected both on and off the reserve, and it will be respected.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister made a promise in the House, a promise he has failed to keep. Rank and file natives have kept that promise for him while the minister, his officials and band and council on the reserve sit in their ivory towers. Once again, who in this weak-kneed government is going to stand up and stop this environmental pillage?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I find it hard to believe that the member accuses the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development of not being close to the grassroots. In fact, over the last two years he has met with more band members, more chiefs and more aboriginal people than certainly has the entire caucus of the Reform Party.

I would underscore that the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development has the full confidence of the aboriginal peoples unlike their view of the Reform Party which is certainly not their greatest ally.

Irving Whale

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it would appear that the Minister of Environment has finally seen the light on the Irving Whale issue.

Last week, she showed some common sense when she announced an investigation by the RCMP into possible criminal activities, as well as a new environmental impact review.

Can the minister assure us that the public servants and other individuals who are being investigated by the RCMP will not take part, either as witnesses or as commissioners, in the new environmental assessment she has ordered?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, obviously, the government rreferred this issue to the RCMP so that it can investigate at every level.

This being said, the PCB assessment will take into account everybody's public testimony and, obviously, those who are being investigated will be excluded from the process.

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, would the minister not agree that, now that she has recognized the existence of criminal activities surrounding the refloating operation of the Irving Whale , the only way to give credibility to the process would be to strike a totally independent expert panel, one that has ho connection with her department?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the member's allegations are false. Moreover, if he wants the investigation to be conducted properly, it must not be interfered with.

But if he means that an investigation should be conducted independently from the Canadian government, Environment Canada has the responsibility to carry on environmental impact assessments, and we do not want to avoid our responsibilities, we want to take them the same way we did when we became the first government to tackle this ecological time bomb.

I would like to point out that the RCM of Îles-de-la-Madeleine, the fishermen of the Magdalen Islands-

The fishermen of Prince Edward Island, of Atlantic Canada, support the position of the government. I only wish the Bloc would help us to rid ourselves of this ecological time bomb.

Public Service

[Eugène Bellemare, Liberal, Carleton—Gloucester, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board and is about the public service.

Reports indicate that the early retirement and early departure incentive programs have been so favourably received by public servants as to cause a larger expenditure than expected.

Will the President of the Treasury Board assure the public servants and the Canadian public that the government does not intend to lay off employees or cut services to compensate for the overspending under these programs?

[Ronald J. Duhamel, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, we will be true to our fiscal commitments and operate within the established targets.

True, more people than expected indicated that they want to take advantage of the government offers. This simply shows that there will be more spending in the beginning, but we will be able to make up for all that. True, this could amount to almost $2.3 billion, but

at the same time, this will be offset by savings of $4.2 billion. Thereafter, $2.2 billion will be saved each year.

Concerning the public service, I am convinced we shall continue to have a service that reflects the needs of Canadians. Members well know that as a result of the program review we have had to reduce it, but we will continue to have a competent and committed civil service that will respond to the needs of Canadians.

National Revenue

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, when the Minister of National Revenue amalgamated Canada customs and taxation he claimed the department would become more efficient and more effective. The auditor general disagrees. In his report last week the auditor general points out that taxpayers are now waiting 26 days longer for disputes to be resolved and that Revenue Canada missed collecting $17 million in interest charges on overdue accounts.

How can the minister claim this reorganization in his department has been anything but a failure?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Revenue answered that question when the auditor general's report came out.

If the member looks closely at the report, he will see the auditor general acknowledged the changes the Minister of National Revenue introduced and the savings that have been realized. Naturally, the time period is not of sufficient length for the auditor general to draw any conclusions. If the member reads the report very carefully he will see that at the moment the auditor general is being complimentary. He encourages the department to continue and it will continue in this manner.

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, with all due respect, I believe the parliamentary secretary is out of touch with this department.

Over the last couple of months I have received evidence that there are questionable management practices. There is evidence of racism. The morale is low and there is a lack of fulfilment in the department.

The minister of revenue and taxation has to do a better job of controlling the department. Tax time is coming up. Budget time is coming up. We know the friction between taxpayers and Revenue Canada collectors.

When will the people responsible for the department improve the image of national revenue and taxation?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the member did not have a supplementary prepared and just went on a rampage of making allegations. If the member has evidence of specific cases of wrongdoing by people working in the department, he should come forward and give them to the minister and make them public. Then the minister will definitely look into the matter.

Since 1993 when this government took office we have made the necessary changes in the department. Canadians are receiving their tax refunds faster than before. The amalgamation of the two departments has created savings in the millions of dollars and this will continue.

Booksellers

[Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral, Bloc, Laval Centre, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the heritage minister.

Yesterday, David Peterson, a former premier of Ontario, submitted a brief to the heritage committee, on behalf of the Canadian Booksellers' Association. Mr. Peterson predicted that the impending arrival of two mega-booksellers from the United States, Borders, and Barnes and Noble, would have disastrous consequences on the book market in Quebec and Canada.

Before the Minister of Industry allows American booksellers to invade the Canadian market, will the Minister of Canadian Heritage undertake to set up a committee of experts to assess the economic and cultural impact of the arrival of these two booksellers on the Canadian market, like it did for Sports Illustrated ?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, let me advise the member clearly of what the existing book policy is of the government.

The policy prohibits the establishment of a new retail book selling business by non-Canadians. Non-Canadians may only engage in book retailing as minority investors in Canadian controlled joint ventures. Any proposed joint venture that may be brought forward will be carefully examined under the existing powers under the Investment Canada Act to ensure that control in fact is exercised by the Canadian investors.

We do not contemplate in any way softening or weakening that policy in favour of any proposed investment. I believe the interests of the Canadian booksellers will thereby be truly protected.

[Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral, Bloc, Laval Centre, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it does not seem as though Mr. Peterson feels all that reassured. Would the government's eagerness to close that deal have anything to do with the fact that the Canadian partner of the giant American Borders corporation is Heather Reisman, a member of a well-known Liberal family, as reported by the Globe and Mail ?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I want to thank the Bloc member for her interest in Canadian heritage.

As for the rest of her question, I will not dignify it with a reply.

Fur Industry

[Darrel Stinson, Reform, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, about 72,000 Canadians are registered fur trappers, about half of them being native or Metis. Another 30,000 work on trimming, storing and creating garments with fur and selling them.

As a former trapper myself, I would like the Minister of International Trade to explain now that native trappers have convinced the European Union to postpone for one year its ban on furs caught with leghold traps, how will the government use that one year reprieve to ensure that an EU ban on Canadian wild furs never takes place?

[Mac Harb, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, we are aware that we have one year within which to work out the proposition. We are quite encouraged by the European Union decision to grant us the extra year. We are going to work with the industry, the provinces and all of the interested parties. We hope to be able to come up with what is believed to be a proposition which is in the best interests of everybody, including the people who are benefiting from trapping in Canada.

[Darrel Stinson, Reform, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is not as if this is a new problem. The European Union now buys about 75 per cent of Canadian fur.

Will the Minister of International Trade explain what action he is taking to broaden the market for Canadian wild fur and reduce our dependence on the European buyers?