Debates of Nov. 9th, 1995

Department Of Human Resources Development Act

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, as always when the hon. member speaks I pay a great deal of attention.

I have had the pleasure to work with the hon. member on the human resources committee and so I clearly understand the philosophical disposition he has toward matters related to human resources development.

I find it quite ironic that the Bloc Quebecois would accuse the federal government of engaging in an exercise of political power grabbing when in this piece of legislation we are trying to empower not only the federal government but provincial partners and local stakeholders to give us an opportunity to better serve the people of Canada, whether they are in la belle province de Québec or outside.

I also bring to the hon. member's attention that we as a federal government have a role to play in matters he outlined during his speech. One is the Unemployment Insurance Act which dates back to 1941 and gives a role to the federal government to engage in a process whereby we will give income support to the people of Canada and also a set of tools so they can re-enter the workforce.

I have a different view of what is going on in the relationship between the federal government, provincial governments and local communities. Over the years we have demonstrated that as a federal government we engage very much in co-operative, flexible federalism-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, York North, ON]

I hear some rumbling on the Reform Party side which is quite obvious. It has nothing to say and so it just moans and groans.

Despite the differences that exist, some of them political in nature, some philosophical, we have engaged in many innovative partnerships between Human Resources Development Canada and Quebec agencies. HRDC, Human Resources Development Canada-I am talking to the Reform Party so it gets its acronyms right-in partnerships with two Quebec government departments is supporting job search training for youth through le Relais des jeunes adultes du Sud-Ouest de Montréal; 65 per cent of the participants so far have found work.

In partnership with the Societé québécoise de développement de la main-d'oeuvre HRDC provides financial assistance to help new entrepreneurs to get into business through la Société d'aide au développement des collectivités de Sorel-Tracy Inc.

In partnership with SQDM, HRDC helped workers affected by a Hyundai plant closing in Bromont last March; 80 per cent of those workers found work or took further vocational training.

The CEC and la Société du développement économique de Jonquière have established a partnership to compile and share labour market information.

There is a single window service joining HRDC, le commissaire industriel and l'Office de tourisme in Témiscamingue to deliver services in industrial, rural and tourism development. The list is absolutely endless.

I tell the hon. member in a very clear and concise manner that Canada works. Does it work perfectly? No. Can it use some improvements? Of course. We can achieve positive change in federal, provincial and community relationships as we redefine. This is a very important exercise in the redefinition of the relationship between the individual, the community and the state.

It is within this framework that we must continue to work together to achieve those positive ends that will facilitate the process of getting people off unemployment rolls and on to payrolls.

I know the hon. member shares this vision because he, like me, wants to get people off welfare, off unemployment and into safe, secure jobs.

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I can see the hon. parliamentary secretary is more skilful with comments than with questions. But he did ask a question, and he said in his preamble that we seem to have a different perception of the facts, and I agree.

He is quite right, his point of view and mine are quite different. In my opinion, decentralization means that, in areas under provincial jurisdiction, the federal government should enter into agreements with the provinces. But they think decentralization means that Ottawa rakes in the money through the UI plan. Incidentally, the federal government has not put any money into the UI fund since 1991, but it is keeping control of the fund and goes so far as to imply that it is being generous, when in fact that money comes from the employees and the employers of Canada, including Quebec.

The parliamentary secretary should know that the federal government got involved in the UI fund through a constitutional agreement and then with the approval of the provinces. It was aware at the time that this is an area under provincial jurisdiction. That agreement allowed the federal government to establish the unemployment insurance commission.

Now, because the federal government manages the UI fund, it is using the power of money to do things, and it made a string of announcements. There may be one he does not know. One week after the referendum, the hon. member for Beauce made an announcement concerning the Minister of Human Resources Development. As you know, cuts in the employment centres had been announced right and left. The employment centre located in the constituency of the hon. member for Beauce was going to be transferred to the neighbouring Frontenac constituency.

The hon. member for Beauce made representations, obviously accepted to chair the no committee and announced, one week after the referendum, that the Minister of Human Resources Development had agreed to keep a number of employees in the Beauce constituency rather than transferring them all as previously expected. Furthermore, there would be a special project in this constituency. Within this kind of decentralization, an independent member-instead of a province-would be able to create a consultation or support centre to help industries train their own employees. We, the official opposition, are against this kind of decentralization.

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciated my hon. colleague's comments on this very important topic.

I note with interest the comments of the parliamentary secretary that Canada works, that his government has been bringing forward a flexible and co-operative approach and therefore he does not understand what the problem would be. I can tell him the problem is that his government is not flexible and has not been very co-operative with the provinces. That is the big reason we have the problems in Canada today.

It is interesting to note that this afternoon during question period, the hon. Minister of Health indicated how co-operative she is. She got up and bragged that she is going to be penalizing Alberta to the extent of over $400,000 a month in cutbacks in the transfer payments. That is how co-operative the government is with the provinces. Is it any wonder we have problems with the province of Quebec as well.

It is very interesting to note that the Reform Party on the other hand has put forward a positive agenda for change and has devolved manpower training to the provinces. That is what we look to for innovative ways to make Confederation work.

Perhaps the hon. member would care to comment on what his experience has been in how co-operative the Liberal government has been over the past two years. Is there further merit in the devolution of powers to the provinces if we are going to make Confederation work?

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

Let me remind everyone that the 10-minute question and comment period has almost lapsed. The response should be in 60 seconds or less.

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would simply like to say that I listened with great interest to the remarks made by my colleague from the Reform Party. It makes me realize that, even though the members opposite, on the government side, would have us believe that they only have problems with Quebec, they do have problems elsewhere as well.

Now, regarding Quebec's position, it is quite clear. In a resolution adopted unanimously by the National Assembly under the Liberal government of Mr. Daniel Johnson, chairman of the no committee, Quebec has stated that it wants to be given exclusive jurisdiction over manpower, for example, as well as tax points equivalent to what the federal government is spending in this area at the present time in this province.

Quebec has been asking for that for a long time.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the bill before the House has a straightforward goal. It provides the legal mandate and structure for Human Resources Development Canada.

As the debate has already shown, we are not simply discussing technical legislation; we are in fact talking about a vision. That vision is one of Canadians and communities meeting the challenges of a new economy. It is a vision of a federal government that works as a partner within Canadian communities. It is a vision based on jobs, growth and results.

This is not a vision of the future; it is a reality today. At a time when people ask how governments can get closer to the people they serve, HRDC is showing the way. This is true in every province and every territory. I know it is certainly true in the riding I represent in the House of Commons, York North.

York North is one of the most dynamic areas in Canada. There are new families, new businesses and new opportunities everywhere in the riding. However, growth does not simply happen. We have to build for success. This is what we are achieving in York North.

We are doing it through the York North technology strategy. This strategy was developed by working together with municipal governments, businesses, community organizations and area residents. It will prepare the people and communities in my riding for the 21st century. It will help them make the most of today's technology and will allow them to turn change into opportunity. It will equip people with tools which will help them compete in the economy we see emerging all around us.

The government has been there to help. We have been able to use the department's flexible and effective programs to translate this strategy into concrete, innovative projects. We have been able to match the energy of community leaders in the York region with the tools of Human Resources Development Canada.

One example is our new York region strategic alliance. The Regional Municipality of York, Seneca College and local employers have joined with the federal government to foster jobs and growth in this region. We are pooling resources and skills. We are sharing overhead and information. We are finding projects which will offer a real bang for the buck in terms of job creation.

Strategic alliance's first project is taking place in the city of Vaughan. It is a pilot survey which will develop a database on local business opportunities and resources. This information will be available to employers around the world via the Internet. It will help employers who are considering Vaughan as a place to do business. It will help those already there who are considering expansion.

Human Resources Development Canada was approached to help out with this initiative. Recognizing the importance of upgrading skills and modernizing the economy, our government supported this initiative.

Today, current unemployment insurance recipients are acquiring new skills that will help them return to the workforce on a more permanent basis. They are creating the database. They are doing the research. They are entering data and writing reports. They are learning and acquiring marketable skills. They are achieving and contributing to the well-being of the Canadian economy.

We see strategic alliance as a solid investment in the future of our economy. I use the word investment with good reason. We expect two results from this project that will continue long after the Human Resources Development Canada funding is over.

The first is that each of these employees will have better skills to bring to new employers. They will have received active help from unemployment insurance, not just temporary income. They will be back on the job, not back on the UI treadmill. The second is that the city of Vaughan and then all of York region will have an effective pool of resources and tools to create and attract jobs. That is only one of the many excellent examples of how HRDC works with communities.

Just over a month ago I announced the establishment of the technology enterprise centre in the city of Vaughan. It was a very important day for the city. Vaughan is a young community in many ways. Many of my constituents are young people and parents who are concerned about the future. They know the economy demands more from all of us. They are prepared to meet that challenge. They need a government that will help them and their children acquire the skills the new economy demands.

The technology enterprise centre is one way to provide essential skills. The project is sponsored by the Vaughan economic and technology development department. When the project is in full swing, 60 participants will have learned entrepreneurial skills, skills that are important in creating jobs for themselves and also creating jobs for other Canadians.

Those entrepreneurial skills will have a particular focus: the high technology sector. The centre will work with unemployed residents between the ages of 19 and 34 who have a background in technology or research. It will help them gain the skills to start their own high tech businesses, or work for one of the many enterprises already established in Vaughan. This promises to be an intensive program with a realistic basis. After all, we know that companies such as Microsoft started in garages. Who knows where the next leaders of this innovative technology based revolution will come from?

Community leaders in the private sector and at the city of Vaughan knew we have people who want to create opportunities. They were willing to contribute computer equipment to support this idea. They were willing to secure corporate sponsors to keep this idea going. They needed a partner to help get this off the ground. Once again our government was there to help.

We are deeply committed to the employment needs of youth. We recognize the importance of entrepreneurship in our high technology industries. Thanks to the support of our government based targeted labour market initiative, this is a chance to test a great idea with a great deal of potential.

The federal government earmarked funding for the technology enterprise centre. This is one more example of this government's commitment to listen to communities. We work with their priorities; we focus on creating results. This is fundamental to the new way of governing and governance in this country.

It is extremely important for us to reach out to the communities, to reach out to individuals and to help them along. More important, it is really about people investing in people, helping people help themselves, creating the entrepreneurial environment where jobs are created and to give young people the opportunity to acquire the skills required to meet the challenges of the new economy.

Statistics show us that 45 per cent of all new jobs created between 1990 and the year 2000 will require more than 16 years of training and education. Never before have education and training played such a vital role in our children's future. In order to face this challenge head on, the public, private and educational sectors must band together to give our children the tools they need to succeed.

Last fall, together with Mr. Colin Morrison of the Career Foundation and Philipp Tafelmacher, president of Tetra-Pak, I introduced the York Region Compact, a partnership for learning. This unique co-operative education program focuses on matching students with local companies based on the student's career goals, skills, and the requirements of the organizations.

This spring I announced federal support for training young people in the automotive repair and service sector. As a result of an internship partnership forged between the Canadian Automotive Repair Service Knowledge Network, CARS, whose head office is located in Richmond Hill, and Human Resources Development Canada, labour and the private sector working together, over 1,000 young people will receive hands on experience in this expanding industry with one of the major automakers, whether it be Chrysler, Ford or General Motors.

What is important is that we are in fact training young people for jobs with a future. Why are we focusing on CARS? Why are we focusing on environmental technology, computers and tourism? It is because these are jobs with a future. We want to give young

people the skills required to obtain a job in a very competitive marketplace where jobs are long lasting and high paying.

This government has created over 500,000 jobs so far, and the majority are full time, high paying jobs. It is a highly paid, highly skilled, high value added society that we want to create so that the quality of life for Canadians can be maintained.

I am very proud to be a partner in initiatives such as the ones I have outlined. However, we could never have set these projects in motion without first being a community with the foresight to develop such a plan for the future.

The North York technology strategy is about a community that is committed to working together. It is about people, employers, community organizations, and governments that are prepared to combine their efforts and work together for results that will benefit us for a long time to come.

If I had the time I could discuss so many other examples of similar kinds of human resource development co-operation programs I have seen. One excellent example is the self-employment assistance program that has helped 34,000 people across Canada start businesses. Those businesses have created 68,000 jobs. In North York literally hundreds of people have benefited from this program.

The same is true about our support of young people. In April 1994 our government unveiled the youth employment and learning strategy. This strategy is a cumulative result of many years of consultation, policy development, symposia, and town hall meetings with Canadians from coast to coast to coast.

This Liberal government recognizes that our youth is a very important resource, and as such should be treated with a great deal of dignity and priority. That is why this year, during a time of fiscal restraint, the overall budget for youth employment services was increased by $43 million, to $236 million. We understand that investing in young people is an excellent investment for the future of this country.

An important element of the youth employment and learning strategy is the national summer job action plan, which I announced in the city of Vaughan this spring. This year the student summer job action program created 44,500 jobs nationwide. When we include the spinoffs from the Canada Employment Centres for students, we created almost 250,000 jobs for our young people.

Youth Service Canada and the youth internship program are viable, very interesting, and positive measures for young people. Youth Service Canada gives young people a chance to develop skills and confidence while serving their community. Participants receive a $2,000 voucher to be used for tuition or to start a business. To date, Youth Service Canada has given more than 3,500 young Canadians a head start on their career path.

The youth internship program provides a combination of training on the job and in class, with a balance of both specific and basic employment. Some 27,000 young people have benefited from this program since its inception.

The government invests in results. We are committed to innovation, co-operation and flexibility. We know that people and communities understand their priorities. We know they are willing to make a real commitment to meeting these priorities, and we are willing to work with them in a way that meets their needs.

At the same time we are adapting more than the services we provide. We are improving the way in which these services are delivered. In order to serve our clients better we have developed an integrated, affordable, highly flexible and decentralized service delivery network. This network incorporates new strategies and new tools for getting employment services and programs into the hands of the people who need them. While it maintains a face to face service that clients need it adds new technology features which enhance and expand service delivery.

The use of new technology will be a key feature of the new service delivery network. Through electronic information kiosks, on line database and telephone access systems, the department hopes to extend its reach to clients and all Canadians. New technology will enhance the capacity of our staff to deliver information and services. Through built in flexibility, our staff is responding to what Canadians want and keeping pace with rapid changes in the job market. These initiatives and improvements are really the point of Bill C-96, which creates a department that will work with Canadians.

Everywhere I go throughout the country, whether it is in the Atlantic provinces, British Columbia, Alberta or the province of Ontario, I find that people are responding positively to the new way of delivering services. They are responding positively to the new way of bringing people together. I am quite excited by the revolution that is occurring in every single province, in every city, in every community of this great land. People are coming together, finding out what their priorities are. They have a federal government that facilitates this meeting of people and bringing an idea to fruition, facilitates the ability to be accountable and to deliver services that make sense.

The federal government is reclaiming relevance at the community level. Any hard working member of Parliament who has the ability to lead their community, the ability to facilitate the meeting of people, and who has the deep desire to bring about positive change in their community can do so, because we have built into

this legislation the type of flexibility that will bring their dreams and the dreams of Canadians from coast to coast to reality.

It is not now the time to throw up your hands and say that Canada is not worth it. It is time to roll up your sleeves and make your community work.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is rather surprising to hear such a statement only two weeks after the referendum results.

It is true that the Yes side got 49,4 p. 100 of the vote, but if there is one issue on which a referendum today would lead to a landslide victory, it is the return of powers to Quebec regarding manpower training.

Again this week, Mr. Gérald A. Ponton, chairman of the Association des manufacturiers du Québec-not a member of the Parti Quebecois, not a member of the Bloc Quebecois, but the chairman of the Association des manufacturiers du Québec-clearly stated that there is a consensus in Quebec, that it was reiterated during the referendum campaign, that if the federal government wants to give us clear evidence of the will for reform it expressed during the week prior to the referendum, it should give the Government of Quebec the responsibility for all manpower training.

It is very surprising to hear the member state that the present government wants to have concrete results to show how effective it is. From September 1994 to September 1995, the number of welfare recipients increased by 20,000, mostly because the unemployment insurance rules were tightened up by this government that wanted to create, in the unemployment fund, an artificial surplus that will amount to about $5 billion for this year. When the government makes decisions like this one that leads people to apply for welfare, I think we see very concrete results that do not reflect very well on the present government.

In his speech, the member used the term "decentralize". That must be one of these words that does not mean the same thing in Canada and in Quebec. In every management book I studied, decentralization means mandating somebody to assume the whole responsibility of some undertaking. Everything there is in the bill presented by the Minister of Human Resources Development is to be found in clause 6 which reads as follows:

The powers, duties and functions of the Minister extend to and include all matters over which Parliament has jurisdiction relating to the development of the human resources of Canada not by law assigned to any other Minister, department, board or agency of the Government of Canada-

This bill does not mention provincial responsibilities, contrary to Bill C-95 which at least, in the health area, contained clauses ensuring that the federal government would not encroach upon provincial jurisdiction. In this bill, nothing is said about that.

When you look at all those elements, it seems fair to ask the government if this bill, tabled before the outcome of the referendum, should not have died on the Order Paper, because it shows clearly that the federal government has no intention whatsoever of making real changes. It wants to make cosmetic changes only. The way to show they want change would be to amend the bill so that manpower training can become an exclusive jurisdiction for Quebec.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, York North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am often quite puzzled by some of the questions the Bloc Quebecois asks in the House of Commons.

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

It does not take much to puzzle you.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, York North, ON]

I wonder if a member from British Columbia who came to a neighbouring riding and was able to draw only six people has the right to even express an opinion.

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Nobody has the right except you. You are the only one with rights here.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, York North, ON]

I want to tell the hon. member that there was no question, as he may recall, on the June offer the Minister of Human Resources Development made to the provincial minister of employment, basically asking to sit down and perhaps come up with some different arrangements for a local economic development strategy for the province of Quebec and indeed any other province that would like to participate.

I find that quite ironic, considering that the government, in co-operation with the people of Canada, has been able to create a climate where there have been over 500,000 full time, high paying jobs created since the October 1993 election.

We have made offers to the provinces on the issue of the labour market. The hon. member knows that. As a matter of fact, we have continually made offers and it has taken a long time for the minister from Quebec responsible for employment to even have the decency to respond to the offers made by the Minister of Human Resources Development.

If the hon. member is asking if can we make some changes to the way the federal government and the provinces relate, I submit that changes should be made not only with the provinces but with the way in which we deal with communities and individuals. The hon. member knows that governing and governance is an evolving

process. Changes have occurred throughout the past two years. I cited earlier in my comments, in response to the member for Lévis, a number of initiatives that are working quite well.

When I was in Pierrefonds, Quebec, avec ton cher collègue du Parti québécois, le ministre de l'Éducation, Mr. Garon, we were there working together, ensemble, to make sure that by pooling the resources available, 1,000 young people, in co-operation with the Sectoral Council of Cars and Chrysler Canada, would get jobs.

When you speak to young Quebecers, when you speak to young Albertans, when you speak to young British Columbians, their dream is to get a job, to have the type of security that the government is providing.

Are we open to leading the way in these consultations toward change? Of course we are. It is unfair for any member of the opposition to say that no progress has been made because the numbers speak for themselves.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I was interested that the parliamentary secretary in his vision of the new Canada said that the federal government works as a partner. Some partner. This is a partner that just finished removing $7 billion from the social spending envelope. What kind of a partner is that?

All the words that the government keeps coming up with are nothing more than the platitudes of speech writers. Would he care to enlighten us as to who wrote his speech?

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

I want to remind my colleagues on all sides of the House to please make their interventions through the Chair.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, York North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, you can rest assured it was not a member of the Reform Party. Speeches have to make sense and I would never go to them for any advice on that.

The hon. member knows because he has visited my community that it is working quite well. It is doing that with a Liberal member on the government side.

This is what Reform Party members do a lot. They sit here and complain about cuts. When they ran in the 1993 election, they were going to cut approximately $15 billion from social spending. Since then, they have come up with a super RRSP for seniors that would actually reduce benefits for our seniors.

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Baloney.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, York North, ON]

There you are, Reform. It takes away maternity benefits. This is the type of cave age Reformers we have in this House. They seem to throw numbers and figures around. You should even check your super RSP-

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

Order, please. I know that there are strongly held views in most debates, if not all of them, but there is a proper way to conduct debates and going through the Chair is most helpful.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, York North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will do that. There are correct views and there are wrong views. I believe that the hon. member is expressing wrong views.

When we look at the budget which Reformers proposed, in relation to the super RSP, they have something called recognition bonds within that framework. The unfortunate thing is that they are reinventing the Canada pension plan, the OAS and the GIS. The only thing they do not know about the bonds is how they are going to pay for them. Everything else works quite well, according to them.

I ask for a very simple thing from them. When Reform Party members speak in the House of Commons they really should take a bit more care, a bit more time, to analyse clearly and study the issues and not to present to Canadians plans which simply do not make sense. Canadians want plans that work. Canadians want plans that result in job creation. Canadians want plans that create jobs and economic growth. That is what the government has been able to do in the past two years. I know that members of the Reform Party are really not happy with that.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is getting more interesting as we go. I find it enlightening when we are told our plans do not work. I have been here for over two years and I have yet to hear of a plan coming from the government.

The bill we are speaking about is Bill C-96, which we oppose. I must say, Mr. Speaker, that I am sharing my time with my colleague from Kootenay East.

I would like to comment on the presentations which have been made this afternoon. One of our Liberal colleagues called on us to work together. Perhaps we could work together, reasonably closely, if the goal that the Liberal government has and the goal which the Reform Party has were at least close. I am going to demonstrate why we have these emotional debates. What we hear is rhetoric. We do not see concrete examples. We do not see anything substantive coming from the government which fits into Canadian society today.

I hear that the bill will empower the government-

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, York North, ON]

People.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

No, it was government. That was the word.

Since October 1993 the government has had a majority. We are now, over two years later, talking about Bill C-96 which will empower the government. I have to wonder what has happened in the last two years. Has the government been thinking that maybe it should be empowered? It already is empowered. Has it been thinking about what it will do now that it has been elected by surprise? Just exactly what has the government been thinking for the last two years?

This legislation will only go into that place over there, it will sit and go through committee, and it will be into year three if not year four before the government will say it is empowered. We have to wonder what the logic is.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Elect them again.