Debates of Nov. 9th, 1995

Prisoners Week

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, prisoners week is an affront to all victims of crime. Yesterday I received by mail a pamphlet produced and paid for by Correctional Services Canada. The pamphlet urges us all to celebrate and pray for the plight of prisoners, to give them special recognition between November 19 and 26.

Talk about your priorities. Why should I recognize a rapist and a murderer? The solicitor general should be appalled that Canadian taxpayers are asked to pay for this glorification of murderers, thieves and rapists. The solicitor general should think about the security of Canadians as he sets aside a whole week glorifying those who would go so far as even to threaten the life of our Prime Minister.

Maybe the solicitor general has forgotten just who we have in our prisons. He is asking us to dedicate a week to people like Robert Paul Thompson, a killer of his wife; Clifford Olson, a killer of our children; and Paul Bernardo, a killer and rapist of our daughters.

This is outrageous, unacceptable and disgraceful. I challenge this government to scrap this week and let us get our priorities right for a change.

United Nations Charter

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the members of the Bloc Quebecois wish to point out that today is the 50th anniversary of the ratification of the UN Charter.

Fifty years ago, delegates from many countries gathered in San Francisco to rebuild international relations on a new foundation. This was no easy task, as all the countries involved had to redefine their approach to issues such as health, the environment, human rights, refugee assistance, and peacekeeping.

On this anniversary, we all feel honoured by the presence in our gallery of peacekeepers who, in recent years, have acted with courage, selflessness and compassion to promote human rights and democracy around the world. Today more than ever, they are playing a crucial role in dealing with the social and political tension and upheaval that prevail in several countries.

On behalf of all members of the Bloc Quebecois, I thank them for their outstanding commitment, that all the people in Quebec and Canada can be proud of.

Remembrance Day

[Ian Murray, Liberal, Lanark—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this Saturday, in the 11th month, on the 11th day, at the 11th hour, Canadians will pay tribute to the million and a half men and women who went to war to fight for this great country we live in. We come together on November 11 to pay a special tribute to those who courageously lost their lives in the first world war, the second world war and the Korean war.

This year we mark the 50th anniversary of the end of the second world war and the return of peace.

We should also recognize the new challenges faced by the Canadian Armed Forces in the post war period as peacekeepers and pay a special tribute to those who have lost their lives in this role.

We are what we are today, we have what we have because of the people we honour on Remembrance Day. November 11 must be for Canadians a day not only of remembrance and recognition, but of dedication to the hard and patient work of keeping peace.

I thank all veterans and peacekeepers for protecting Canada and its citizens and for allowing us to live in a country of peace and prosperity.

Astronaut Chris Hadfield

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Oakville—Milton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on Saturday morning our Canadian astronaut, Major Chris Hadfield, who is a crew member of the space shuttle Atlantis, will launch into space for an eight day mission. This graduate of White Oaks Secondary School in Oakville will become the fourth Canadian to go into space.

Watching him there will be 13 excited White Oaks Secondary School students, six students from the Milton District High School and 28 air cadets from the Blue Thunder Squadron in Milton. They are travelling to NASA to witness in person this special shuttle launch.

Major Hadfield will be the first Canadian to fly aboard the shuttle and will be the first Canadian to use the Canadarm.

On behalf of all Canadians, please join me in wishing Major Hadfield a safe and successful mission.

The Economist

[Maurice Bernier, Bloc, Mégantic—Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in its latest issue, the prestigious magazine The Economist gives its interpretation of the results of the October 30 referendum in Quebec. Looking at the sociopolitical situation and the relations between Quebec and the rest of Canada, The Economist readily predicts a victory for the independentists next time.

Even foreign observers are not fooled by the stalling tactics tearing English Canada apart. The Economist also said that the referendum, far from representing an affirmation of Canadian unity, does not resolve anything. The real issues undermining the current federal system remain unanswered. That is why The Economist , like the members of the Bloc, predict that English Canada will be unable to accommodate Quebec's aspirations.

Televoting

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, voters of Nanaimo-Cowichan will have a more meaningful say in how they are governed thanks to a recently installed televoting system in my riding.

Rather than insult my voters by only asking them what they think once every four or five years, this ongoing project in participatory democracy will register voters in my riding enabling them to vote electronically on various issues.

From November 27 to December 10, voters in my riding will be asked whether a binding national referendum on capital punishment should be held.

Members opposite appear to shun direct democracy in favour of top down party directed policy. We in Reform want to listen to what the public has to say.

We believe that the average voter wants to have a say more often than every four or five years. With the televoting system, the people of Nanaimo-Cowichan will be helping to lead the way into the future.

Veterans Week

[Bob Speller, Liberal, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this week, Veterans Week, we stop to remember our fellow Canadians who so bravely fought and those who died to protect our freedom.

I participated in a remembrance ceremony a few Sundays ago, a day before the Quebec referendum. I thought of those Canadians who fought and died for our freedom and of what they might be thinking of Canada today, how they would still be very proud to be Canadians and how distressed they would feel at the plight of our unity given all that they had fought and died for.

Our contributions around the world have been highly commended, yet the cost of protecting democracy and peace has been very high.

Each of us has our own reasons for remembering. Only by remembering can we give meaning to the sacrifices that have been made. Only by remembering can we strive to maintain peace. Only by working together as a nation can we preserve the Canada that so many have fought and died to protect, a Canada that is envied the world over.

Let us not forget.

[John Harvard, Liberal, Winnipeg—St. James, MB]

Mr. Speaker, 77 years ago this weekend the first world war came to an end and Canadian veterans were able to come home.

Fifty years ago this summer, the second world war ended. Forty-one years ago, Canadians began to return from the Korean war. For the past 38 years, Canadians have served in UN peacekeeping missions from which they have returned to a grateful nation.

The week of November 4 to 12 has been proclaimed Veterans Week. This is an occasion for all Canadians to pay tribute to the courage and sacrifice of those who served their country.

It is time for us to listen to the stories of our veterans which they have to tell and to learn from their experiences. It is time for us to rededicate ourselves to the values of freedom and democracy our veterans fought to preserve.

Above all, it is an occasion to honour some very remarkable Canadians.

Poverty

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Quebec and Canada are living through hard times and face a growing problem of poverty. When the number of people on welfare is increasing to record highs, the population is entitled to expect energetic employment measures from the government.

The Canadian economy is faced with a major structural problem, one which requires immediate action from the government. Elected as it was on promises of job creation-job, jobs, jobs-this government has not shown any imaginative solutions except to centralize power in Ottawa and attack those who are already the worst off. The sole response the government offers is an empty legislative menu. Nothing for employment, nothing for social problems, nothing for the economy. Enough of this. The population demands that the government finally start governing.

Special Committee On Canadian Unity

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last Tuesday, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs referred to the cabinet's phoney committee as being essential to the survival of Canada. Yesterday, he was corrected by his colleague at the Department of Justice, who said: "We do not expect to find a formula to save the country".

Would the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs agree that what his colleague at the Department of Justice said confirms that the sole purpose of the government's phoney committee is to play for time and that Quebecers, and Canadians as well, for that matter, have nothing to gain from this committee?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps I may start by correcting the hon. member for Roberval. A phoney committee is like the regional political commissions set up by the Parti Quebecois, where the members all belonged to the

same party and the money of Quebecers was used to make partisan propaganda. They were definitely phoney.

We have set up a committee that will try to deal or suggest how to deal with the problems that exist in our country today. We all need this kind of committee.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs just scored in his own goal, as they say. A committee whose members all belong to the same political party, funded with taxpayers money and likely to accomplish nothing. That is the kind of committee he chairs.

But seriously, this morning in New Zealand, the Prime Minister said that his government's first priority was not to make changes for Quebecers but to create jobs. At the same time he said the cabinet committee did not intend to reopen the debate on the constitution.

Would the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, who yesterday said repeatedly during Question Period that the committee's mission was to save the country, agree that in the light of the correction made by his Prime Minister, Quebecers and Canadians should expect nothing either from him or his committee?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the official opposition is spouting nonsense about a committee that was set up to deal with the problems we have now in this country.

Prime Minister Chrétien made it quite clear that the important problems in this country today are economic problems, and he also said that the Parti Quebecois was wasting its time, after it lost the referendum, on reopening constitutional issues and refused to deal with the real problems, which are job creation and unemployment.

More than 60 per cent of Quebecers said in a recent poll that they wanted the Parti Quebecois and the Bloc Quebecois to take care of the economy and job creation and stop wasting their time, their money and their future on discussing a problem that has already been settled.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in addition to being a poor hockey player, the minister does not know how to skate. Let me explain.

Yesterday, the minister said that the committee would be used to save the country from the separatists who wanted to break it up. That is what he said yesterday. Today, after the Prime Minister's correction, he tells us that his committee will look into creating jobs and promoting economic development.

Is the minister telling us that this government, which for more than two years has said it will deal with the country's real problems, is he telling us that they have no recipe and that it takes a committee to suggest how the Prime Minister can get the country out of this mess?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, to continue in hockey parlance, the hon. member for Roberval lost by default because they decided to leave the game. They lost the referendum and, instead of tackling the real problems, they decided their only objective is to destroy Canada. All their energy is spent not on dealing with the economic and other problems of this country but on destroying the country. That is why they have nothing to offer in the way of real solutions we should be developing for the future of Quebec and Canada.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

You will notice that it is after the Liberals were called to order by Pierre Elliott Trudeau that this panic-stricken government began to dilute its already vague promises of change to Quebecers and quickly set up a phoney committee which will prove useless.

Considering that the Minister of Justice said yesterday that the cabinet committee would not save Canada, and given that the Prime Minister said this morning that the committee does not intend to reopen the 1982 constitution, does the minister not realize that he will preside a phoney committee which will be useless in terms fulfilling the promises made by the Prime Minister regarding the constitution?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I will repeat for the tenth time that the Prime Minister clearly indicated in his speeches that he was going to look after the issues of distinct society and right of veto. He asked a number of ministers to develop strategies, get a better understanding of the referendum results, and make appropriate changes for Quebec and Canada. This is what we are doing.

As regards Mr. Trudeau's comments, the hon. member should also remember that he clearly said that the Leader of the Opposition had make a mockery of the truth, to use a diplomatic expression. This is exactly what he said in his press conference.

[The Speaker]

Dear colleagues, we are now on thin ice. Therefore, I would ask hon. members to choose their words carefully.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, given that his phoney committee was set up in a mad rush, that the names of its members were released only 24 hours later, and that each of its members seems to have a different opinion as to its mandate, will the minister admit that his phoney committee was only set up to buy time until Christmas, when the House will recess and the

Prime Minister will no longer have to answer embarrassing questions on the commitments he made during the referendum campaign?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I see that the official opposition has now adopted the term "phoney". Its members are asking phoney questions.

They are obviously much more concerned about what goes on outside, than about the important issues discussed in this House. The important issue now is clearly to try to solve the problems as they exist. We are trying to do that by constitutional and others means.

Canadian Unity

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the cabinet's national unity dream team is becoming a nightmare. Nobody knows who they are going to consult with, nobody knows when they are supposed to report, and worst of all, nobody has a clue what the committee is supposed to be doing.

The labour minister thinks they are going to be discussing constitutional change. The justice minister says they will be looking at Mulroney type constitutional talks, and the Prime Minister said the cabinet committee will not be delving into constitutional matters.

I ask the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, if he can hear me, does this committee have clear terms of reference from the Prime Minister and, if it does, will he table them in this House?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, this committee has clear terms of reference. They will not be produced in the House because this is a task force which consists of ministers. Ad hoc committees normally have mandates and memberships that are kept confidential. They are kept confidential for one good reason: they are the means by which advice and recommendations are given to the Prime Minister. That has been the custom of cabinets throughout history.

The mandate of this committee is clear. We are going to look at the promises of the Prime Minister and how they can be implemented. That is clear. They were in the speech given by the Prime Minister. We know what they are. We are looking at non-constitutional means of improving the way in which the government operates. We have already done it through program review last year. A lot of measures were indicated in the budget.

The leader of the third party should acknowledge that the terms of reference and objectives are clear. The membership is known. We are trying at present to establish a proper diagnostic and to find the right means of solving the problems.

[The Speaker]

We seem to be having a small problem with the sound. We are going to interrupt question period. We will return after we find out what the problem is. We will still have 35 minutes of this question period.

(The sitting of the House was suspended at 2.27 p.m.)

The House resumed at 2.45 p.m.

[The Speaker]

We are ready to continue. Question period will continue until 3.21 p.m.

Because of the noise we could not hear too well, so I am going to permit the leader of the Reform Party to restate the question, hopefully without too much of a preamble, and we will take up from there.