Debates of Dec. 1st, 1995

Justice

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Comox—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the minister's response.

The minister promised in response to my earlier questions in the House to release relevant files to Clayton Ruby, Mr. Kelly's lawyer. However, the justice minister has been stalling for two years and refuses to provide the files required for Mr. Kelly's defence.

There is little reason not to release the files as the information being withheld from Mr. Kelly's lawyer was collected at public expense by a public agency for use in a public prosecution.

The minister has stated that he wants a fair and responsive system of justice. Will the minister stop stalling and release the files to Mr. Kelly's lawyer?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the release of those files has given rise to an issue with respect to the terms on which the release should take place. The files are not the property of the Department of Justice. They belong to the metropolitan Toronto police. They were made available to us on certain conditions.

The justice department has said in effect to Mr. Kelly's counsel: "We will allow you access to what we've been given but on certain conditions". Mr. Kelly's counsel has not found those conditions acceptable. He has taken another position. Quite properly he is acting for his client diligently. We are discussing the terms under which we will release the documents.

Our purpose is not to stall. Our purpose is to ensure that if and when we do release documents, we do it showing proper respect to their origin and to our obligations as custodian to the people who generated them. I am certain we will be able to work out terms acceptable to all parties and make them available soon.

Marketing Of 3Tc

[Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral, Bloc, Laval Centre, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health. The Food and Drug Administration has authorized the marketing of a drug, 3TC, in the U.S. before Canada has authorized it, although they both received applications at the same time and although the drug was discovered in Quebec, at Laval. Worse still, in both the U.S. and Canada, examination of the drug submission was fast tracked.

How can the minister explain that fast tracking of drugs moves faster in the United States than in Canada, and that the Canadian fast track looks more like a secondary road than a super highway?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I can tell you we are hoping for a decision on this in the near future.

There is one thing that ought to be pointed out, which is that the Government of Canada ought to be receiving praise, along with Health Canada, for providing substantial funding to help in the development of this product.

[Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral, Bloc, Laval Centre, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member speaks of hoping for a decision and I must point out to her that what she is hoping for, we are hoping for even more, but it is our impression that our hopes are often in vain.

Is the minister aware that the administrative slowness of her department has resulted in a mere 2,500 patients being able to benefit from this drug, whereas if 3TC obtained commercial authorization from Health Canada all of the people living with AIDS, four times that figure, could have access to it?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I shall repeat what I said. The scientists of Health Canada are doing their job, and they will be giving us a decision shortly. I believe, however, that the hon. member may not have her facts exactly right. The companies applied for drug approval in the U.S. first, before Canada. The Americans have just now given approval. Some time is needed for decisions to be reached on protocols that are not favourable. I believe the hon. member will not be disappointed. Health Canada is doing its job, and doing it well.

Grains Industry

[Elwin Hermanson, Reform, Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food is developing the reputation of being able to give nice, long, flowery speeches but not being able to make up his mind and he cannot meet his deadlines. Let us see if he can break this habit of indecision.

The minister's senior executive officer group, which is also called the May 16th group, has put forward a proposal to sell 13,000 hopper cars dedicated to the hauling of prairie grain by the railroads for $100 million.

Has the minister made up his mind? If he has it will be earth shattering. Has he made up his mind to accept the offer or reject it?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, one of the difficulties in responding to questions from the Reform Party is that its members consistently get their facts wrong. Once again the hon. gentleman has done exactly that.

He refers to a group within the grains industry called the May 16th group. He also refers to an advisory group of grains industry executives called the SEO group. The hon. gentleman should know those are two quite separate things. They are not one and the same.

The SEO group has come forward with certain recommendations about grain car ownership and grain car allocation procedures. Those recommendations have been presented for consideration to the May 16th group, as well as to some western Canadian farm organizations.

Those farm organizations are still in the process of considering the set of recommendations from the SEO group. Until I have the considered opinion of the farm organizations it would be highly inappropriate to make a final decision before getting their advice.

The hon. gentleman talks about grassroots political consultation and discussion. He suggests that we should get advice from farm organizations, but in his question he suggests that we make a

decision today which pre-empts the opportunity to get that advice through consultation, and that we will not do.

[Elwin Hermanson, Reform, Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, we just saw an excellent example of the flowery speech and no decision whatsoever.

The minister is waffling. He is sending strange signals to the industry. He is not listening to those who have been putting input into the whole process. Maybe we can give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he is trying to get a better deal for farmers.

Is he proposing that if the railroads buy the cars, worth over $300 million for the fire sale price of $100 million, that the railroads will then agree not to increase the freight rates by the $1 a time which they are currently proposing? Is that what he is working for? Why is he delaying?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, what the hon. gentleman fails to appreciate is that the set of recommendations put forward by the group of senior executive officers in the grains industry is a package proposal which involves a number of recommendations that move in a variety of different directions.

He has spoken, for example, about the recommendation relating to the possible sale of hopper cars. What he has not referred to is the fact that another recommendation from that very same group of senior executive officers proposes that there ought to be some kind of maximum ceiling with respect to freight rates extending over a period of 10 years.

It is significant that the Reform Party has consistently opposed that kind of protection for farmers.

The Environment

[Karen Kraft Sloan, Liberal, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment.

The UN weather agency reported this week that the hole in the earth's ozone shield covers an area twice the size of Europe. The hole grew again this year at the highest rate ever, threatening the globe with increased exposure to deadly ultraviolet radiation.

What is the Canadian government doing to prevent the deadly environmental catastrophe of ozone depletion?

[Clifford Lincoln, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of the Environment will be attending the seventh meeting of the Montreal protocol which starts on Monday in Vienna.

She will be reinforcing Canada's commitment to an accelerated ozone layer program which has already been endorsed by the Council of Canadian Ministers of the Environment. This means working toward zero discharge of ozone depleting substances. It means phasing out HCFCs by the year 2010. It means continuing to work with Agriculture and Agri-food Canada on methyl bromide. Most important, it means a committed research program into alternatives to ozone depleting substances.

Public Service

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the President of the Treasury Board.

The first quarterly report on job cuts in the public service indicates that so far Quebec has received more than 28 per cent of federal job cuts. This situation discriminates against Quebec, which before the cuts had only 19.3 per cent of federal public service jobs.

Considering that Quebec's under-representation within the federal public service has already caused it to lose more than 22,500 full-time jobs, what justification does the minister have for letting Quebec absorb more than 28 per cent of the cuts in the federal public service?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the cuts are proportional right across the country.

The first quarterly report of early departures from the public service are by and large on a voluntary basis. Some people went out under the early retirement incentive program. I do not think those numbers can be taken as any disproportion across the system. Overall the program is going quite well right across the country.

Immigration

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last October the deputy minister of immigration signed a memorandum of understanding in Vietnam which allowed for the return of criminal refugees and immigrants from that country.

However, this week when the Vancouver Sun requested a copy of that memorandum of understanding, the department refused to give it to them because it could potentially damage bilateral relations.

Will the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration assure the House that the agreement will be made public forthwith and explain to us what is in the memorandum of understanding which if it is made public might damage bilateral relationships?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the intent of the government is to seek as many removal agreements as possible so that individuals who are to be deported can be facilitated without any problems.

Through some diligent work, we have been able to obtain such agreements with Jamaica and Vietnam, among others. We were the first country to return individuals to Laos.

We have often heard from members of the third party about the whole question of trying to get these removal agreements and that we would never be able to obtain them. Now that we have them, they ask if they can see them.

In respect to the agreement we signed with Vietnam, it was at Vietnam's request that the agreement be kept confidential. The government and the department have no difficulty if the Vietnamese government agrees to make it public. We have no concerns whatsoever. It is at Vietnam's request and we have respected the confidentiality.

However, the question at the heart of this is the importance of removing individuals who should not be here in the first place. That is being done.

Health Care

[Audrey McLaughlin, NDP, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

Today on World AIDS Day, she will know that there has been great concern about the prospects for long term research into the area of HIV and AIDS.

The funding at this point goes to 1998, but the minister will know that research has to be done in a longitudinal manner over a period of time. Would the minister today state specifically what her plans are to ensure that there is a long term plan and strategy in place for AIDS research?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member's question because it is a very serious matter, which we are working diligently to address.

We hope to have some resolution to that question and ensure there is ongoing funding within Health Canada for research and programs having to do with AIDS and HIV. It is something we will hopefully have resolved within the next few months.

Fuel Additives

[Roger Gallaway, Liberal, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment.

Next Monday, December 4, Ethyl Corporation in the United States is going to start shipping MMT to American refiners for use in gasoline. Having regard for the fact that the environment department has talked of the absolute necessity of uniform gasoline standards between Canada and the United States, can the parliamentary secretary tell us what uniform standards we are going to follow in Canada? Is it going to be with MMT or without MMT?

[Clifford Lincoln, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the reason we have proceeded with Bill C-94, which is presently in third reading in the House and which would ban MMT, is essentially an environmental reason. MMT impairs catalysts and sensors in modern automobiles, which are supposed to lead to cleaner fuel emissions.

We want to ban MMT and follow the lead of many states of the United States-California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois-that are using reformulated gasoline without MMT. This is the option we have chosen, to use cleaner burning fuels, to use reformulated gasoline. So we are going to be committed to working very hard to make sure Bill C-94 becomes a reality very soon.

Points Of Order

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order with regard to the amendments relative to the distinct society motion. I am not pressing you for a timetable, but I was wondering if you could indicate to us whether you have a time line as to when you will be advising the House with regard to your ruling.

[The Speaker]

I have instructed the clerk of the House and our researchers to go over it. I wanted to take my time on this, as I believe it is going to be reintroduced next week. You will have my decision before we take up the debates again.

Western Arctic Inuvialuit Claim Implementation

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, under the provisions of Standing Order 32(2), I have the honour to table in both official

languages copies of the 1993-1994 annual review of the Western Arctic Inuvialuit Claim Implementation Commission.

Government Response To Petitions

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table in both official languages the government's response to eight petitions.

Nunavut Implementation Commission

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, under the provisions of Standing Order 32(2), I have the honour to table in both official languages copies of the 1994-1995 annual report of the Nunavut Implementation Commission. Also under the provisions of Standing Order 32(2), I have the honour to table in both official languages copies of the comprehensive report of the Nunavut Implementation Commission, "Footprints in New Snow".