Debates of Dec. 11th, 1995

The Environment

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Charles Caccia, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, because of transboundary pollution, Canadian freshwater scientists are reporting that airborne toxic substances from other countries are seriously damaging our lakes, threatening both the environment and health.

Can the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans tell us whether he intends to maintain Canada's freshwater research capacity despite recent budget cuts in his department?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for Davenport for his question, especially as he has long established himself in this Chamber as the leading environmentalist of our time, second only of course to the Deputy Prime Minister.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Of course, Mr. Speaker, you have been known as a green thumb around here.

[The Speaker]

I had better intervene before the hon. minister names everyone in the House.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Mr. Speaker, the program review has reduced the budget of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans by 40 per cent over the next three to four years. It is quite a deep cut but is in line with what other federal departments are doing to meet the deficit projection targets of the Minister of Finance. Difficult decisions have been made all through the department.

I want to assure the hon. member that no final decisions have been made with respect to fresh water. However, we will be maintaining the Freshwater Institute and the programs in the central and Arctic regions, including the experimental lakes program of which the member makes mention.

Notwithstanding our deep commitment to deficit reduction, we on this side of the House remain committed as well to ensuring quality of life for Canadians, unlike our friends in the Reform Party opposite.

Canada Pension Plan

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the discussions taking place at the federal level concerning the Canada pension plan, as reported on Saturday morning, are making me fear the worst. One of the scenarios contemplated would increase the retirement age from 65 to 67 and cut pension benefits by 10 per cent while at the same time increasing pension contributions.

My question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. Are we to understand that, after going after the unemployed, this government intends to hit seniors by raising the retirement age to 67 for CPP pensioners?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows that any changes in the Canada pension plan require the joint consultation and agreement of both the federal government and the provinces.

The Minister of Finance is holding meetings with his counterparts this week to listen to their points of view of what they consider might be an acceptable regime, in order to ensure that the Canada pension plan is sustainable and viable for generations in the future.

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, would the minister confirm that one of the cutback scenarios he is considering consists in reducing pensions by 10 per cent and raising contributions to the plan for those who are not yet beneficiaries under the Canada pension plan?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Human Resources Development just explained, we intend to discuss the whole issue of pension funds, the Canada pension plan and the Quebec pension plan tomorrow and the day after with the finance ministers.

The hon. member should realize that in both cases, we share the problems and also the possibilities for solutions. However, it would be very premature to discuss the options today. This will have to be done with the finance ministers.

Bill C-226

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, section 745 of the Criminal Code could allow the likes of Clifford Olson and other lifers to get parole in only 15 years. Bill C-226 is a private member's bill on the table waiting for approval to remove section 745.

Is the justice minister prepared to support all Canadians regarding this removal, or does he want it to die on the Order Paper like I suspect he does?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member creates the impression that section 745 is a provision which results in the automatic release of people who have been convicted of murder.

Section 745 simply provides that such people can apply to a court, composed of a judge and a jury picked from the community, to decide the question of whether that person should be permitted to ask for an opportunity to have parole.

When the private member's bill was before the House, there was, in effect, a free vote on that bill. As a result it went to the justice committee.

I have written to the justice committee and I spoke to its then chair to ask the committee to deal with this matter as one of priority. I want the committee to deal with it. As I told the House last week, I shall be making submissions to the justice committee about the broader context in which it should look at this single important issue.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to make it perfectly clear that I said section 745 could allow the likes of those people to be released.

This minister has brought in legislation that has divided Canada rather than unite Canadians. The gun law, the sentencing bill and sexual orientation inclusion and the unity bill are some examples of how this minister is working.

When is the minister going to support bills that victims, police, police chiefs and all other Canadians want, like the removal of section 745 from the Criminal Code?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, no matter how the hon. member may choose to pronounce his words, the fact is that from day to day in this Chamber, he makes a career out of creating the spectre of public danger because of this section in the Criminal Code.

The far more responsible approach to criminal justice is to first look at the facts and that is exactly what I have asked the justice committee to do. That is what they will do.

Indian Affairs

[Len Taylor, NDP, The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

In the rush to fulfil the Prime Minister's referendum promises to Quebec, the government has hastily assembled a unity package that aboriginal leaders say does not recognize their historic self-government, land and treaty rights and would make it absolutely impossible to obtain further changes to the Constitution to clarify those rights.

Will the government stop ignoring the aboriginal issues in these constitutional initiatives and make a commitment today; first, to consult with the Assembly of First Nations; second, to honour Canada's constitutional obligations to aboriginal people; and third, to recognize First Nations as full partners in Canada?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is obvious that the member, who spends a lot of time on the aboriginal file, did not hear the speeches of the Prime Minister, the Minister of Justice or myself.

If he had, he would have heard that the words were very similar in each one of the speeches. They were very clear that the distinct society clause does not derogate one iota from either the inherent right or the treaty rights of aboriginal people.

[Len Taylor, NDP, The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK]

Mr. Speaker, in the speech to which the minister refers there was a commitment to a national aboriginal day, a holiday.

I am wondering if, instead of a day off, we might find a day to actually sit down and get some work done on some of the things for which the aboriginal people have asked, particularly the extinguishment clause that aboriginal people have talked about.

Will the minister give us a commitment today that as the fact finder Justice Hamilton has requested, the extinguishment clause will be extinguished?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, not only does the hon. member have the wrong speech but he has the wrong day. I am referring to the speeches that the Prime Minister, the Minister of Justice and I initiated at the start of the debate on distinct society and the veto legislation.

We were not talking about a holiday per se. We were talking about a recognition. It is in place now in the sense that the AFN has a unity day on June 21. We can build on that because at the spiritual gathering, all the churches were there: the Mennonites, the Anglicans, the Roman Catholics, all the spiritual leaders.

All the parties were there except unfortunately the NDP and the Reform. I am looking at both of them. Maybe if they had been there they would understand what we are trying to do collectively as far as putting some spiritualism and recognition into what the aboriginal people have done for this country and continue to do.

Employment Insurance

[Jean Payne, Liberal, St. John's West, NL]

Mr. Speaker, in Newfoundland, as in most other provinces, seasonal work is very important to the economy. Would the Minister of Human Resource Development assure me, the constituents of St. John's West and the rest of Canada, that the particular circumstances of seasonal workers have been taken into account in considering the new employment insurance legislation?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for the question.

One very important change, as the member knows, is that we have shifted the basis of eligibility to hours. That will be of substantial benefit to seasonal workers. It will mean that many seasonal workers qualify much sooner for benefits than they can now and that many seasonal workers can extend their benefits much further. In other words they will be able to extend their weeks.

To give a working example, today with the new system 45,000 additional seasonal workers who are not eligible under the present system and who now pay premiums could become eligible under the new system. More important, 270,000 seasonal workers today would be able to extend their benefits a minimum of an additional two weeks beyond that which they have now under the old system. In other words, they could establish their claim earlier and have their claim last longer because we are recognizing and giving them full credit for all the work they do.

Alliance Quebec

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Canadian Heritage recently signed an umbrella agreement to provide Quebec anglophone groups with $8.4 million. Although Reform is against such expenditures generically, if the government is to do it we hope it will do it in a fair way.

Will anglophone groups that did not sign the deal continue to receive funding? Or, will it be channelled entirely through Alliance Quebec?

[Sheila Finestone, Liberal, Secretary of State (Multiculturalism) (Status of Women)]

Mr. Speaker, the Official Languages Act of Canada recognizes minority groups, francophones outside Quebec and anglophones within Quebec.

The official languages office has been in the process of negotiating with a variety of different groups based on principles of equity and gender. It will certainly not cut out other groups at the expense of Alliance Quebec. Nor would Alliance Quebec expect that to happen.

Canadian Airlines International

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Transport.

In reply to an opposition question, the minister said that Canadian Airlines International and its partner, Alitalia, had ceased operations at Mirabel because of insufficient passenger volume between Montreal and Rome. However, Air Canada has applied for permission to operate this route.

Considering the sizable Italian community in Montreal and the fact that there is a real market for flights between Montreal and Rome, does the Minister of Transport intend to make an exception to his policy for allocating international routes and accede to Air Canada's request so as to provide a direct link between these two cities?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, we have no intention of changing the current existing rules for allocating routes to these two airlines. However, I understand the hon. member's question and his emphasis on the importance of the service between Montreal and Italy. In fact, a number of ministers and members on this side of the House have already raised the matter.

However, we must realize that often the other airline applies for a route, not because it may be very successful but because it wants the international prestige.

We should realize, as the hon. member pointed out, that Canadian Airlines International is not alone in thinking there is not enough passenger volume between Montreal and Italy, since Italy's national airline, Alitalia, has also suspended operations on this route.

However, we will continue our negotiations. We have scheduled meetings with Canadian Airlines International to try and find ways to solve the problem.