Debates of Feb. 8th, 1995

Taxation

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Bourassa.

Immigration

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. Despite interventions by a number of women's rights groups, the minister intends to have a refugee from Trinidad and Tobago, who is the victim of spousal abuse, deported on Friday. She was divorced in 1991 after being beaten by her former husband, who has returned to Quebec on a special ministerial permit.

Does the minister intend to intervene by stopping the deportation of Taramatie Ramsubhag and her three children cancelled?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. member for his question and point out to him and his colleagues in the House that the individual in question, although it is difficult to talk about the facts of an individual case, has had two refugee hearings. Both of those hearings turned out negative. Her removal, as a consequence of those negative hearings, was delayed so that the gender persecution guidelines-the only country in the world to have such guidelines-could be applied, were applied and those guidelines were negative.

I want to say to the hon. member-and I think he ought to be fair-that the system was completely fulsome and fair with this individual. If there is any new information that was not brought to light in three previous hearings I would urge the hon. member to bring the information to my attention so that it can be quickly considered.

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since I am not satisfied with the minister's response, I now address the Deputy Prime Minister.

Does she intend to make representations to her colleague in immigration, since she was personally involved in 1993 in blocking the deportation of a group of 14 immigrant women, including Mrs. Ramsubhag, who were victims of spousal abuse?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, we took measures in 1993. We are the only country in the world with an Immigration Act that contains guidelines on the institution of proceedings in the case of sexual discrimination. We promised this in 1993 and we delivered.

We are the only country in the world to recognize it. Some countries are discriminatory. These guidelines are to enable eligible women to obtain refugee status.

Farm Credit Corporation

[Lee Morrison, Reform, Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK]

Mr. Speaker, during the winter break the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food reached way down into the Liberal hack bag in order to find an appointee for the board of the Farm Credit Corporation. Joan Meyer, a long time constituency backroomer, was campaign manager for failed Liberal candidate Rob Heindrichs and is married to Liberal party contributor and failed provincial candidate Don Meyer.

What qualifications, apart from her unimpeachable Liberal party credentials, does Mrs. Meyer have for this appointment?

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, I would ask you to consider the nature of the questions. Perhaps they might better be answered and more specifically answered on the Order Paper when we get down to specifics.

I ask you to consider that when framing your questions. If the minister of agriculture wishes to address himself to the question I will permit it.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to address the question.

The person named by the hon. member is a very effective farm manager. She is also a business manager in her home community of Swift Current, operating a small business. She is heavily involved in a variety of community organizations, including providing assistance with respect to their financial matters. She is a new member of the board of directors, consistent with my policy and that of this government of enhancing gender balance on all government boards and agencies. I want women involved in the Farm Credit Corporation.

[Lee Morrison, Reform, Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK]

Mr. Speaker, Brian Mulroney could not have answered it better.

Does the minister not realize that he does not enjoy the confidence of western Canadians and that appointments of this nature just further erode that confidence?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, when it came time to make the appointment of Mrs. Meyer and others, I had the opportunity to consult with a broad variety of people across the country, including senior representatives of farm organizations. I indicated who I had in mind to appoint. The recommendations I was about to make were very well received by the farm organizations.

I suggest that if the hon. member wants to put his credibility on the line on who is the most popular in Swift Current-Maple Creek-Assiniboia, I will take him on any day.

Taxation

[Sarkis Assadourian, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a very good question, unlike the members on the other side.

My question is addressed to the Minister of National Revenue. Canadians are made to believe by the Reform Party that their income tax goes only toward the federal government because there is no deduction shown for provincial taxes on paycheques.

In the case of Ontario the provincial tax box is blank. However, I believe this is misleading. What action can the minister take to make sure Canadians know which government is really getting their money and by how much?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, the member has raised an important point and I thank him for it.

The design of the form is ambiguous in certain respects. In Quebec, which administers its own individual taxes, the amount is shown in a separate box on the form but in the other provinces and territories, which harmonize with the federal government, the taxes collected are shown as a single lump sum.

I can assure him that this process is the most administratively efficient. It does lead to some misunderstanding and there is no intention to mislead Canadians concerning the amount of provincial tax paid.

We will take his representation and I will have the department look at it with a view to redesigning the form so that we can deal with this confusion that does exist with respect to which level of government receives the taxes individual taxpayers pay.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General.

Yesterday over 500 members of the RCMP marched for the first time ever on Parliament Hill to denounce the attempt of this government to deny them collective bargaining rights and to punish them for even talking about collective bargaining.

In view of the fact that this bill was condemned yesterday by the Liberal chair of the justice committee who said the bill was slid by the Liberal caucus and is an attack on the civil rights of RCMP members, how can the minister continue to defend this dictatorial, jackboot approach to dedicated members of the RCMP?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, while the chair of the justice committee can speak for himself, I understand that he feels his comments were not completely and fully reported by the press. I would suggest that my hon. friend take that into account.

Also, there are 15,000 uniformed members of the RCMP. They have had their own labour relations system since 1975. They elect representatives to work on their behalf full time to protect their interests vis-à-vis management. I ask the hon. member to take that into account as well.

The study of Bill C-58 is beginning this afternoon in the appropriate committee. I think at that time it will be confirmed that the bill simply confirms the basic position with respect to the management of the RCMP. It does not add to the powers of the commissioner and it does not take anything away from

members of the force. That is why the House gave it second reading.

I commend it to the committee and to the House. It is designed to protect and enhance the position of the force as the prime policing organization in Canada and perhaps in the world.

Presence In The Gallery

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, I would like to call your attention to the presence in the gallery of four very distinguished visitors to our House today.

I would like to introduce to you the Hon. Henry N.R. Jackman, Lieutenant-Governor of Ontario.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

Also, I would like to introduce to you the Hon. Ed Tchorzewski, Deputy Premier of Saskatchewan.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

As well, I introduce to you the Hon. Glyne Murray, Minister of State in the Prime Minister's Office of Barbados.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

Dear colleagues, I would also like to acknowledge the presence in our gallery of Antonine Maillet, the distinguished author from New Brunswick and a source of great pride for Canada.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

I have a point of privilege and three points of order which I would like to hear.

Privilege

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I raised a question of privilege on November 2, 1994 regarding an incident that arose from question period on November 1, 1994.

As you are aware, Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister quoted from a letter I wrote to the Minister of Canadian Heritage regarding a concern of one of my constituents. This was done without my prior knowledge or permission or the prior knowledge or permission of my constituent.

At that time the Deputy Prime Minister stood in the House and argued that the letter was public domain. It was on this argument that the matter was dropped.

Since then I have received a copy of a letter from the CRTC to my constituent which was in response to my letter. In the letter from the CRTC the manager of correspondence and complaints division writes: "In accordance with your rights and the CRTC's obligations under the Privacy Act, unless you advise the commission otherwise, within three weeks of the date of this letter it will follow the usual practice of placing a copy of all correspondence related to your complaint on the licensee's publicly accessible file".

Clearly the CRTC regards the correspondence relating to my constituent's complaint as private as defined in the Privacy Act.

The letter from the CRTC is dated December 13, 1994. Considering the three-week requirement before making the correspondence public, my letter to the minister was not a public document until January 3, 1995.

The Deputy Prime Minister quoted from my letter relating to my constituent's complaint on November 1, 1994, two months before the letter was deemed a public document.

In light of this new information, Mr. Speaker, I ask that you reconsider the matter. If in your deliberations of whether what I raise today constitutes a prima facie question of privilege, I ask that you consider the following.

By making my private letter available to the Deputy Prime Minister, the Minister of Canadian Heritage breached confidentiality. In so doing he interfered with my ability to function as a member of Parliament by calling into question whether issues on which constituents asked my assistance will be made public.

Mr. Speaker, I ask that you find this to be a prima facie question of privilege. If you do so find, as is the usual practice of the House, as described in Beauchesne's sixth edition, citation 118, I will move that this question of privilege be referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there are two points for the Chair to consider. I submit this does not constitute a valid point of privilege.

The allegation is that there was a breach of confidentiality by the CRTC in giving information to the Deputy Prime Minister and that this may have been a violation. This is not acknowledged by our side at all. Even if it was, it would constitute a dispute in law on whether that law was breached. It is not something that the Speaker usually rules on. The Speaker has made the point on several occasions in the past that his role is not to discuss whether an issue is legal or otherwise but only whether the privileges of members of the House have been violated.

Finally, I submit to you, Mr. Speaker, that if the member has such a complaint with the CRTC he should file an appeal with the Privacy Commissioner and indicate in his appeal that he believes, if such is the case, that the privacy of his constituent has been denied.

In either case, this is not a matter for the House to deal with.