Debates of March 20th, 1995

Canada Post

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this event sounds an awful lot like the Pearson airport deal which was also started by the previous administration.

I would like to ask the minister for some clarification on behalf of Canadian taxpayers. Will he, when he conducts his investigation, also make public to the Canadian taxpayers who are footing the bill the terms and conditions of the lease agreement?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I can well understand the desire of the hon. member to try to raise some public attention.

I want to share with him that the Auditor General, in March 1994, in a special examination of the Canada Post Real Estate Group said he "was satisfied with the decision making process throughout the project. The process provided for many counter checks of information, ensuring that cost effective alternatives were well identified and documented".

Furthermore the Auditor General went on to note: "Therefore it was found that the facility planning process as it affects cost controls issues for the corporation-(were) based on sound information and realistic market assumptions".

I will provide the information to him at the most appropriate time but I would hope that the hon. member could allow this litigation process to come to a conclusion.

Welfare

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Quebec Minister of Income Security recently highlighted the negative effects of the Liberal government's cuts to the unemployment insurance system. One of them was that, as a direct result of the cuts to unemployment insurance, between 6,000 and 8,000 households in Quebec will be forced to join the welfare lines each month.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Will he confirm that the additional $2.4 billion in cuts to the unemployment insurance fund, of which $700 million is for Quebec alone, will only increase the number of families collecting unemployment insurance which have to switch over to welfare?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, it would be very helpful to point out to the hon. member who asked the question what I think is the

most important statistic from last year. If we look at the question of those people who exhausted their UI benefits, the number dropped by more than 86,000 over the year before. There was a very substantial gain of employment in Quebec which enabled far fewer people to reach a stage where they had to exhaust their UI benefits.

That is the real statistic the hon. member and the hon. minister for Quebec should be looking at. We are creating jobs in Quebec. People will be able to stay at work longer and not have to exhaust their UI benefits as a result.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the only statistic that people are going to remember is that, last year, the government implemented $675 million in cuts to the unemployment insurance fund, that this year's cuts amount to $2.4 billion and that it plans to cut $3.5 billion in the next. That is what people are going to remember.

My second question is also for the Minister of Finance. Will he admit that he is condemning thousands of families to despair by denying them unemployment insurance benefits and is once again offloading his financial problems onto the provinces by forcing them to spend larger amounts on welfare?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, again the hon. member simply does not know what he is talking about.

As a result of the unemployment insurance changes, close to 200,000 Canadian families receive the additional benefit of 60 per cent which adds, on average, an additional $1,000 of revenue for those low income families with dependants.

As a result of UI changes and the direction we are going in which is to give differential benefits to those most in need, we are able to provide substantial new income for 200,000 Canadian families.

National Defence

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canada has spent over $75 million modernizing our fleet of CF-5 fighters. We are now spending more millions of dollars even though the fleet is grounded and up for sale. The last time we tried to sell fighter planes we ended up giving away 39 of them to Turkey. What assurances can the minister give us that the Canadian taxpayers will not again get a bad deal and be up for another financial loss?

[Fred Mifflin, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, the CF-5s were bought some years ago as the main fighter and were superseded by the CF-18. As he also knows, the CF-5 fleet is being retired as a result of the white paper on defence and policy review. The intent is to sell them to another country, if possible.

Some countries have indicated some interest, but there is one country in particular where we believe there is a good opportunity to sell the CF-5s. The negotiations are continuing and we hope to have positive results in the near future.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister of Foreign Affairs would agree that the most likely candidate to buy the CF-5 fighters is the Turkish government. The foreign affairs minister has condemned Turkey for bombing civilians. Given these concerns, what reassurances can the minister give us to ensure that these fighters will never be used to bomb civilian populations?

[Fred Mifflin, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is right. Turkey is the country we are negotiating with. The sale of these aircraft to Turkey or to any other country will be subject to the strict rules and regulations that are applied by the Department of Foreign Affairs and other controls that Canada has which preclude the sort of thing the member is concerned about from happening.

Ethics

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

We learned today that the chairman of the National Capital Commission, Mr. Marcel Beaudry, was honourary president at a fund raising dinner held last Saturday in the riding of Chapleau by the Quebec Liberal Party.

How can the minister explain that a senior official of his department can get actively involved in Quebec matters, given the discretion normally expected from public servants at that level?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the chairman of the National Capital Commission is not an official of my department. He presides over a fully independent government agency, which operates at arm's length. Consequently, I have no authority over that official, since he is not a member of my department. I should also add that this person is free to use his leisure time as he pleases.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the fact is that the National Capital Commission is a

crown corporation accountable to the Department of Canadian Heritage. There are all kinds of leisure activities in life.

Does the Minister of Canadian Heritage not agree that this case should be reviewed by the ethics commissioner, so that we know to what extent such leisure activities, as the minister calls them, are acceptable, based on the ethics rules mentioned at length in the red book?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Beaudry is a very respectable person who does not engage in activities without first making sure that they are compatible with his duties.

I am surprised to hear members opposite criticize federal public servants and agencies, considering that they encourage Quebec public servants to actively participate in the referendum campaign.

French-Speaking Countries

[Ben Serré, Liberal, Timiskaming—French-River, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I understand the Minister of Foreign Affairs will attend the next Francophone Summit to be held in Benin, Africa.

Can the minister tell us what the government's priorities are with respect to the French-speaking countries of the world?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to answer this question on this Journée nationale et internationale de la Francophonie.

Indeed, on the initiative on the French minister, Mr. Jacques Toubon, ministers of French-speaking countries will be meeting next week in Paris to discuss ways to better prepare themselves for the Francophone Summit that will take place later this year, in Cotonou, Benin. This summit will bring together the heads of state of member countries of the Francophonie.

Over and above the efforts made in terms of cultural and technical co-operation, we want the Francophonie to play a broader political role in the promotion of human rights, democracy, equality for women and child welfare.

We think the Francophonie has an important part to play in the attainment of these objectives.

Correctional Service Canada

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last Friday, CBC Newsworld broadcast a segment on Fernand Auger. We heard about Auger picking up a 14-year old prostitute in Toronto 10 years ago, putting a gun to her head, threatening to kill her and then raping and sodomizing her.

The program then had an employee of Correctional Service Canada state that Auger's convictions were not viewed as being violent because the victims were prostitutes and this implied a level of consent.

My question is for the Solicitor General. Are these comments reflective of the position of Correctional Service Canada and this government?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I have not seen the program. I am going to get the text and review it. We consider this a very serious and tragic situation. Those comments, if accurately stated, do not reflect the position of this government.

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on June 10, 1994 while responding to a question of mine concerning a similar situation that occurred with Clifford Olson, the Minister of Justice stated that he hoped the allegations of crime are investigated, prosecuted and punished without reference to the lifestyle of the victim.

I ask the Solicitor General, what steps will you be taking to ensure that the attitudes of Correctional Service Canada are consistent with the government's policies and positions?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, again as I have said, I will check into the matter. If what is stated with respect to this broadcast is correct, I will make sure that the operations of the officials in question are consistent with government policy. I thank the hon. member for raising this matter with me.

[The Speaker]

Hon. members, I would encourage you always to address your questions through the Speaker.

Satellite Distribution

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

Not satisfied with a decision made by the CRTC concerning satellite-based broadcasting, the government decided to create a three-person committee to establish behind closed doors its policy on satellite direct distribution.

How can Quebecers affected by this policy trust the recommendations of this committee when the president of the committee, Gordon Ritchie, was among those who stated last week in Toronto that the federal government should penalize Quebecers on the eve of the referendum?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, let us not confuse the public. Mr. Ritchie was appointed to submit a report. He is assisted by two distinguished and widely known individuals. We will judge the report when we read it.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, rather than give the mandate to a small group of government's friends who will work on the sly, if the minister was not satisfied with the work of the CRTC and wanted an objective opinion on the question, why did he not ask for public and open consultations where interested parties in Quebec and in Canada could have been heard?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to reassure our colleague. This group's report will be made public. The documents it receives will be made public. The CRTC is already holding very extensive public consultations on related subjects. Thus, there is nothing mysterious or hidden in this process.