Debates of March 23rd, 1995

Rail Transport

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. Leader of the Opposition seems to be operating under a certain misunderstanding of the situation.

When we commercialize the operations and the assets of Canadian National I will not be selling CN. The taxpayers of Canada will be the ones who benefit from the commercialization of CN.

That is why efforts are being put forward to make sure that CN is viable and competitive and that it survives as a railroad from coast to coast. I know the hon. Leader of the Opposition is not very interested in what happens in Canada from coast to coast.

Turkey

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

Kurds in northern Iraq have been under attack for several days by the Turkish air force, supported by 35,000 troops. The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees expressed serious concern over the fate of Kurdish civilian refugees. While

Washington and Moscow chose to turn a blind eye to the Turkish incursion, the European Union sternly denounced it.

Could the Deputy Prime Minister tell us what the Canadian government's position is regarding the totally unacceptable and reprehensible actions by this NATO military ally of Canada?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of Foreign Affairs I should like to inform the House that Canada views the ongoing developments in Turkey with some degree of concern.

We believe that all our NATO allies, as with all countries, should respect normal international rights, procedures and respect of others. The minister is actively pursuing the matter. I believe these views have been made known to our NATO allies. It is subject to further discussion.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, could the Minister of National Defence tell us if the negotiations under way concerning the sale of Canada's fleet of 63 CF-5 fighter bombers to Turkey is Canada's way of protesting against Turkish attacks on Kurdish minorities?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, a number of years ago there was a memorandum of understanding between the Turkish government and the Canadian government about the disposition of surplus aircraft, the CF-104s, that Turkey indeed received.

Obviously Turkey has defence requirements and it shops around quite frequently. It understands that we have surplus CF-5 fighter planes and has made inquiries of Canada. However no deal has been arranged. No agreement has been concluded.

In any sale of surplus military equipment we have made quite clear that the purchasing countries have to give us certain undertakings on the use of the equipment so that it does not infringe in any way upon the rights of others or the equipment is not used in ways that Canada would not approve of.

The Economy

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, since the February budget the President of the Treasury Board, the Minister responsible for Public Service Renewal and officials of the finance department have all predicted that the federal deficit would be eliminated by the year 2000.

The Minister of Finance has yet to deny or confirm the predictions publicly so I ask him if in his meetings with Moody's yesterday, the bond rating agency, he gave a target date for the elimination of the federal deficit.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, what I said to Moody's in the meeting yesterday was what I said I would say in response to the leader of the third party's question yesterday, in fact in response to same question the day before, and I believe in response to the same question a week before.

I set out our very clear intention to balance the books. I also said we would do so through a series of short term targets that would keep pressure on the government which was by far the best way of controlling our spending.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister can keep talking about rolling targets all he wants, but the fact of the matter is that if all the minister told Moody's yesterday was what he said in the House or told Canadians, he is simply inviting a downgrade of the credit of the country.

Even today Dominion Bond Rating Service, a Canadian agency, has reviewed its outlook on Canada's credit rating from stable to negative.

I have a supplementary question. Is the finance minister prepared to take responsibility for any downgrading of the country's credit rating and all the negative effects that will flow from that?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the third party quotes DBRS. In fact the statement from DBRS is: "We expect to be releasing something in the very near future, a couple of day to a week or so. We have not made a decision on the rating of the federal budget yet but we will be doing so shortly".

In fact it is not Moody's, not DBRS, not Standard and Poors; the only person who keeps talking about downgrading the country's credit is the leader of the third party.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister gets cheers in the Chamber for that type of statement, but every time we stand in the House and demand deficit elimination rather than deficit reduction it is investors, lenders and rating agencies that cheer when we make those types of statements.

This is very straightforward. If Moody's does not downgrade it is because the finance minister told it something he has not told the House or Canadians. If Moody's does downgrade it is because the minister's budget does not go far enough fast enough to restore lender confidence.

The Minister of Finance has one way out of this box. Will the minister end the secrecy and uncertainty and tell Canadians how and when he intends to eliminate, not just reduce, the Canadian federal deficit?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, what I told Moody's is contained in the document I tabled in the House when I presented the budget. It is called the budget.

I can understand that the leader of the third party has not read it because when I presented it in the House he was not here. He was out trolling for media clips.

Transfer Payments

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, Dominion Bond Rating Service confirmed the misgivings the official opposition and the Quebec government had about Quebec and Ontario being hit hardest by most of the cuts in transfer payments announced by the federal government in its last budget.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Will the minister confirm the Dominion Bond Rating estimate that Ontario and Quebec will have to absorb 71 per cent of the reductions in transfers announced in the last federal budget?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, the DBRS analysis did not take into account tax points, which play a very important role in our transfers. Second, their projections for 1997-98 are nothing but pure speculation because, as you know, we did not indicate in the budget how the cuts would be apportioned.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, be that as it may, can the Minister of Finance deny that, to preserve his own image as a good manager and his own credit rating, he knowingly and deliberately jeopardized the credit ratings of Quebec and Ontario by transferring his budget problems to these provinces?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps I should quote from the DBRS report-I will translate for you. According to DBRS, justice, equity and improved efficiency are the guiding principles of our reform, as far as transfers to the provinces are concerned. In other words, DBRS is saying that what we have done in fact is follow the principles of equity and good management.

In terms of Quebec or Ontario there are models they could follow.

For the first time since it has joined Canada, a Newfoundland finance minister has tabled a balanced budget. Other provinces could follow Newfoundland.

Rail Strike

[Dale Johnston, Reform, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in April of last year the government commissioned Paul Fraser to prepare an independent report on labour issues at CP, CN and VIA Rail.

If this report is worth anything at all, why were the recommendations not implemented in time to save the collective bargaining process and have the parties come to an agreement on their own without having to resort to back to work legislation and a $3 billion hit on the Canadian economy?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, the minister's special advisor passed on his opinion and advice on a regular basis as the situation evolved. I think he has done his best to bring the parties together and, as we speak, Mr. Fraser's mandate has not expired yet. Therefore, no report has been tabled so far.

[Dale Johnston, Reform, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it would certainly be nice if Canadians could see Mr. Fraser's report. We are becoming all too familiar with the secretive and rather stalling tactics of presenting these reports in the House.

Will the Minister of Labour tell the House if this report actually contains any anti-replacement worker legislation?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, I can only repeat that Mr. Fraser's mandate is not over; therefore, he has not yet tabled his report.

Suicide In Aboriginal Communities

[André Caron, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Indian Affairs.

The federal government was criticized by the Canadian Human Rights Commission mainly for doing nothing to curb the alarming incidence of suicide in aboriginal communities.

In light of the fact that the government was reminded time and time again of how serious the problem of suicide among aboriginal people is, how can the Minister of Indian Affairs explain that, 16 months into his mandate, he still has not done anything to remedy the situation, forcing the commission to take him to task once more?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we have done considerable work with aboriginal communities on the very serious problems that plague some of them.

Let me remind the hon. member that despite some of the communities we hear about there are many others functioning very well. Health Canada has set up a number of initiatives to address the very serious problem of aboriginal suicide in some communities.

[André Caron, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, over a six month period last year, in the Ontario reserve of Pikangikum alone, out of a total population of 1,600, 50 young people aged 15 to 24 attempted to take their own lives and, sadly, five others succeeded.

In the face of this tragedy, how does the minister explain his stubborn persistence in uprooting young aboriginal people at a cost of thousands of dollars instead of building a local assistance centre, as requested by the community?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we are now in the process of selecting three sites for solvent abuse treatment. We certainly hope to have some of these sites selected by early this spring so that construction can begin.

This is a very serious problem for aboriginal communities. If hon. members have any other suggestions, feel free to come forward. We will do whatever we can to address this serious concern.

Indian Affairs

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday Ovide Mercredi, national chief of the Assembly of First Nations, released contents from the minister's speaking notes surrounding his secret $5 million policy paper on inherent right to self-government.

Can the minister confirm that after 16 months of consultation his policy of self-government is based in the municipal style espoused by the Reform Party?