Debates of April 25th, 1995

Quebec

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the Prime Minister for his answer.

Obviously, it is important that Quebecers know how the rest of Canada feels about so-called sovereignty association before any Quebec referendum this fall. It is also quite evident that Quebecers will not get a clear view of Canadian public opinion on that subject through the BQ or the PQ.

How does the Prime Minister plan to ensure that Canadian public opinion on sovereignty association is clearly registered and communicated to Quebecers?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the only thing we have to tell Quebecers at this time is that the project being proposed is the separation of Quebec from Canada. Everybody in Quebec knows that Quebecers do not want to quit Canada. Even the Leader of the Opposition said that two weeks ago.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister knows, one of the most effective democratic mechanisms for registering and communicating Canadian public opinion on a constitutional question is a formally conducted referendum.

Does the Prime Minister see any place for a national clear the air referendum on these issues, particularly if the Government of Quebec continues to delay its referendum and to shift away from outright separation toward some fuzzier option?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I do not have to speculate on that. I just hope that the Parti Quebecois and the Bloc Quebecois will have the courage to ask the very clear question: Do you want to separate from Canada? The answer is going to be no, and there will be no need for any other referendum.

Firearms

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

Yesterday, the Minister of Justice said that those who use firearms for sustenance purposes, particularly aboriginal people, will be exempted from the registration fees for their firearms, thus creating a double standard?

How can the Minister of Justice claim to be in a position to check if those who own firearms use them for recreation purposes or for sustenance purposes, particularly among aboriginal people?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, my statement yesterday was that the existing exemptions from the payment of fees for those who use firearms for sustenance will be continued in the new legislation. That statement is accurate.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Minister of Justice recognize that, by exempting certain firearm owners from paying the owner's permit, he creates two categories of citizens and totally contradicts his statement to the effect that the law must be the same for everyone and must be implemented everywhere?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I find the premise of the question puzzling. We make categories in law all the time. We distinguish between kinds of firearms. We make exceptions for people who use firearms in their occupations, for example.

For many years in the criminal law we have provided that for those who use firearms for sustenance purposes. It does not talk about aboriginals. It talks about Canadians. Canadians who use firearms for sustenance purposes are exempted from the payment of fees. That, of course, is a common sense approach and one which we will continue in the new legislation.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice is attempting to link the horrific situation in Oklahoma City with the firearms situation in Canada in a pathetic attempt to gain support for Bill C-68. I am appalled that the Minister of Justice would try to capitalize on such a heinous crime in order to drum up emotional support for his gun regulations.

In interviews yesterday, the minister defended the proposed firearms registry by saying that registration will provide information to police about whether someone is stockpiling firearms. Will the minister explain to the House how the firearms stockpiling in Oka occurred, how these prohibited firearms were acquired and how registration would have prevented this?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it was while meeting with representatives of the Canadian Police Association last month that the advantages of registration in identifying stockpiling of firearms was first brought to my notice. I referred to it yesterday because of its power as a compelling example of the advantages of registration.

As I said yesterday and as I firmly believe, if people are stockpiling firearms to create their own arsenal that is something the authorities should know about. We permit firearms in this country for good and legitimate purposes, whether it be hunting or farming. If someone has a collateral purpose and is stockpiling firearms that is something the authorities should know about.

Registration will enable the authorities to have access to that information. The police want it. I want to know why the hon. member will not support the police in the work they are trying to do to achieve a safer country.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, surely the Minister of Justice is not so naive as to believe that the registration of firearms will stop terrorist attacks the magnitude of Oklahoma City or the illegal importation of prohibited firearms.

I ask the justice minister why his government does not use the millions of dollars planned for the gun registry and reinstate the RCMP counterterrorist unit which was abolished three years ago if he has any information that firearms or weapons of any kind are being stockpiled in our country?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, we have succeeded at some measure already in this debate. We now have the hon. member referring to registration costing millions instead of billions. We are going in the right direction. Some of the facts are seeping through.

It is terribly important to deal with this issue on the facts. That is why I decry the efforts of the hon. member and his colleagues to distort the discussion with disinformation among the Canadian people.

The Canadian Police Association, representing 35,000 front line police officers across the country, has now joined with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police in asking the government to enact legislation including the registration of all firearms. They know what is in the public interest. They know it is consistent with public safety. Let us get behind the police.

Department Of Justice

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Justice.

Twice this year, on February 10 and on April 5, the Minister of Justice was not able to explain why Quebec individuals and companies get barely 5 per cent of the total value of contracts for professional and special services awarded by his department since the Liberal government took office.

Will the Minister of Justice finally tell us why his department is only granting five per cent of the value of service contracts to individuals and companies from Quebec?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is quite right to remind me of my undertaking to furnish that information. It is under review. The material will be forthcoming.

In order to satisfy the hon. member, I will determine overnight when I might expect to have the information. I will let him know in writing tomorrow when I will have it for him.

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the Minister of Justice's answer. While we are at it, could he also tell us why 99 per cent of the research contracts financed by his department are drafted in English only? Is this a demonstration that French speaking employees cannot work in French in his department?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I am not certain of the numbers to which the hon. member refers.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

We are.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I will add that to the list of assignments I will take from the hon. member to complete.

I am certain of the falsity of the conclusion he offers. The Department of Justice is very proud of its continuing tradition of offering services in both official languages and of the strength of the staff, both professional and otherwise, that we have in the department to serve Canadians in both official languages.

Government Spending

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, access to information has just revealed that the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans has spent over $200,000 for renovations and luxurious items for his Kent Street office in Ottawa, including over $7,000 for art work, $1,800 for a love seat, and some $254 for a brass nameplate.

My question is for the Prime Minister. In view of the economic hardship and belt tightening that most Canadians have to undergo and the Liberal red book promise to cut spending, will the Prime Minister justify the rationale for this outrageous spending by the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans?

[Fernand Robichaud, Liberal, Secretary of State (Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the expenditure for the renovations to the office of the Minister of Fisheries was not unreasonable, due to the simple fact that the office had not been renovated for a number of years.

The current minister of fisheries wanted to use this office at 200 Kent Street to conduct the department's business, unlike previous ministers who used their office on the Hill. What was done was reasonable. We also wanted to take advantage of the fact that the building owner wanted to do some repairs on the floor in order to do the repairs to the minister's office at the same time.

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure the average working Canadian will be very happy with that reply.

While the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans surrounds himself in luxury in Ottawa, he also finds it necessary to move and to upscale his ministerial office in St. John's, Newfoundland. Considering the fact that most Newfoundlanders are being forced to live somewhere near the subsistence level, will the Prime Minister explain to them and all Canadians the rationale in the costs involved in moving the minister of fisheries' office in St. John's to a fully renovated and more opulent surrounding?

[Fernand Robichaud, Liberal, Secretary of State (Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, I have a hard time believing that the members of the Reform Party would use this as an opportunity to attack the minister and undermine his credibility. After all the minister has done to defend the interests of Canadian fisherman of late, I would think the members of the Reform Party should applaud him.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Fernand Robichaud, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

The St. John's offices were moved to another building according to standard procedure, which requires a call for tenders and selection on the basis of the best service at the best price.