Debates of May 30th, 1995

Bosnia

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we have a defence minister who is sending a double message to Canadians. On one hand he is beating his chest and talking tough about a beefed up mission to Bosnia while in reality his poor leadership and defence cuts have reduced the morale and effectiveness of our military.

The minister cannot have it both ways. Is he going to cut the military or is he going to beef it up?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the critic for the Reform Party says that I have some explanations to give. Perhaps he would like to give an explanation to Canadians as to why he advocated yesterday on behalf of his party that Canadians retreat from Bosnia, leave our hostages there and allow the rest to get him out.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Reformers or Canadians do not leave hostages behind when they conduct a retreat.

This morning, the Bosnian ambassador to the UN commented on the uselessness of the UN operation. He said: "Under these circumstances, the humanitarian mission is over". Considering this, will the Prime Minister admit that no humanitarian aid is getting through and that this reality is a direct contradiction to what he argued yesterday in this House?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps it says something about the state of the Reform Party that the hon. foreign affairs critic seems to know a lot about the science of retreat. Perhaps he would like to edify the House as to how that will apply to other Reform Party policies.

The fact is that we are not going to leave those people in the former Yugoslavia to brutality, to torture or to carnage. We believe we have an obligation as part of the United Nations mandate to help bring some stability to that area. We are certainly not going to do anything to endanger the safety of our captured troops, least of all retreat.

Unemployment Insurance Reform

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

The people of Saint-Siméon and the surrounding area in the Charlevoix riding, are bracing themselves for the unemployment insurance reforms imposed by the minister in the February 1994 budget. These dramatic reforms are hitting them very hard. Entire families have been forced onto social assistance, because of the inadequacy of the unemployment insurance system.

Does the minister realize that his reforms have pushed thousands of citizens, like those of Saint-Siméon, closer to misery, and that he must revoke these cuts in order to stop thousands of unemployed people from flocking to social assistance.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, as I have pointed out in the House in the past, our changes to the unemployment insurance provide a substantially higher benefit for low income unemployment insurance claimants. In the last account I think some 280,000 Canadians, including 80,000 in the province of Quebec alone,

have been able to receive an additional $1,000 per year as a result of the changes we implemented.

I have read the comments of the people of the St. Simeon area and their concern about the design of the UI zone, but that is a very different issue. That goes back to the UI reforms which were brought in by the Conservative government when the hon. member's hon. leader was a member of that government.

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, here is my supplementary question. The time for speeches has passed: it is now time to act.

Does the minister realize that, while he doles millions of dollars out to the Winnipeg Jets, the unemployment insurance cuts made by this government and the one before it, in particular those contained in this government's last two budgets, are making life miserable for the unemployed and unbearable for seasonal workers?

[The Speaker]

Please ask your question.

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will start over again.

Does the minister realize that the unemployment insurance cuts-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

My dear colleague, I could not hear you. Please ask your question.

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, here is my question.

Does the minister realize that, while he doles millions of dollars out to the Winnipeg Jets, the unemployment insurance cuts contained in this government's last two budgets are making life unbearable for seasonal workers and are causing people from Charlevoix to starve?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member could serve his constituents in that area most effectively if he were able to use his powers of persuasion with his colleagues to join with us as we attempt to provide a major modernization of the unemployment insurance system. It will provide the kinds of tools and resources that will enable people to get back to work.

The problem is the Bloc Quebecois has opposed every effort to provide for an improved unemployment insurance system, every effort to give people more resources to get back to work. I would appeal to the hon. member to use his good offices to try to change his party's policies and co-operate with us in trying to provide a much more effective unemployment insurance system for Canadians.

Bosnia

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it seems the government will leave our Canadian forces in the former Yugoslavia.

Our mandate in Bosnia is to assist in the delivery of goods, but the Sarajevo airport is and has often been closed and when convoys do move they are often prevented from reaching their destinations. Last night the defence minister suggested that to reduce our vulnerability we will pull in our observers and concentrate our forces for protection.

Will the minister explain how we are to carry out our mandate when supplies are not getting through and our troops are all hunkered down in bunkered compounds?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. critic for the Reform Party is taking considerable licence with what I said last night.

When we talk about perhaps bringing the UNMOs out of exposed situations, that to me is good common sense. When we talk about concentration of troops as the Prime Minister has explained, this does not necessarily apply to Canada because our troops are reasonably well concentrated at our two posts at Kiseljak and Visoko. But it does make good sense for the UN to continue the mandate to have some concentration of its forces so there is less exposure.

I would like to take exception to what the hon. member has been saying in terms of the discharging of the mandate in Bosnia. The fact is that for most of the last three years those flights have operated with Canadian Hercules from Ancona to Sarajevo. That has been a lifeline which has kept those people fed. The other convoys have been getting through. Of course in the last couple of weeks things have been difficult, but the last couple of weeks does not tell the tale.

I continue to be completely surprised as to how members of his party stand in the House and offer a plan to retreat when they should be offering the Canadian people a plan to retrieve our peacekeepers.

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party is suggesting a withdrawal.

Will the government acknowledge that withdrawal at this time does not mean abandonment of the region but rather opens the door to other options which are currently unavailable because of the threat of hostages? For instance, has the government considered replacing withdrawn ground forces with an air squadron, thus continuing Canadian presence and providing a needed capability?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the logic of Reform Party members is incredible. They stood here last night and told us to get out of there and basically gave us detailed plans for a retreat. Now the hon. member is asking for the application of air power.

I would like to ask him to please make up his mind and be consistent? At least the official opposition is consistent and we respect and are grateful for its support. However, let us have some consistency of opinion in this whole matter.

Canadian Security Intelligence Service

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the solicitor general.

The action taken by the RCMP and CSIS against Pierre Laberge, a retired RCMP employee who came down in favour of Quebec sovereignty, was apparently not enough for Normand Chamberland, Director General of CSIS in Quebec, since he has just fired Mr. Laberge's wife for no reason after 10 years of service.

How can the solicitor general let Normand Chamberland, who planted bombs in Quebec in the 1970s, be so unfair to Mr. Laberge's wife, simply because Mr. Laberge expressed his support for Quebec sovereignty?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is a well known fact that CSIS is cutting staff. It seems that the employee in question is part of the cuts. I have been told that this decision has nothing to do with opinions she or her husband expressed.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it so happens that Mr. Laberge's wife was the only one not wanting to leave and that the job cut, effective June 1, was announced last Tuesday. The fact that the government condones this action suggests that she indeed was fired.

Is the government so worried about the outcome of the referendum campaign that it condones such acts of pure intimidation against people whose only crime is to have a sovereignist spouse?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I do not accept the hon. member's allegations. As I just said, the decision is due to the staff cuts at CSIS and has nothing to do with the opinions in question.

It is sometimes not possible to lay off only those employees who want to leave. In cutting staff at CSIS and in other services, it will not be possible to get everybody who has to leave to do so voluntarily.

As I just said, this layoff has nothing to do with the opinions in question.

Customs

[Walt Lastewka, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Revenue.

My constituents have expressed concern over line-ups at border points for tourists and for people working on both sides of the border. We must make border crossing between Canada and the United States easier for tourists so they will feel welcome to Canada.

What is the minister doing to relieve congestion and frustration at the border points?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of measures being taken. I would like to thank the hon. member for his concern in this area, which he has expressed on a number of occasions most forcibly.

We are in fact proposing that we make a change to the $300 exemption paperwork at the border so it can be done without filling out a form. This initiative is a proposal at the present time. Consultations are ongoing but if the consultations are successful we expect to bring it in by August 1 of this year.

It is an initiative that is consistent with the U.S.-Canada border accord that the Prime Minister and the President of the United States signed last February. It will streamline clearance procedures, save approximately 16 person years of time for Revenue Canada and will be one of a series of measures to make our border more user friendly and less of a hassle for the honest border crosser.

Bosnia

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, since the defence minister is so certain about the security of our Canadian troops, maybe he would like to suggest exchanging himself for the 55 Canadian peacekeeper hostages in Bosnia.

The Prime Minister and the Minister of National Defence have stated that Canada is not prepared to commit any more resources to the former Yugoslavia. In fact, Canada has no more resources. Maybe we should talk about the lack of helmets or the lack of flak jackets or our outdated, obsolete armoured personnel carriers.

My question is for the Minister of National Defence. I would also like to remind him that we have troops who have spent three and four terms in Bosnia. Will the minister admit that Canada has no more resources to commit, that we are stretched to the limit and that we should be out?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member who just asked the question was a participant and a member of the special joint committee. That committee made certain recommendations about the availability of Canadian forces and those recommendations were followed in the white paper. That means that in certain circumstances for conflicts of this nature we should have ready additional personnel if required. The white paper calls for that and those people are there. We are taking steps to address the fact that we have been engaged quite frequently in peacekeeping missions by putting 3,000 more ground troops into the sharp end.

Before the hon. member makes these outrageous assertions in the House of Commons, perhaps he should read his own committee's report, which he signed, and the defence white paper.