Debates of May 4th, 1995

Government Spending

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, maybe I did not make my answer clear the first time.

Health Canada and the government have not donated a single penny to the conference in Italy.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we heard yesterday the tragic story of 40 children who were abused both physically and sexually at the Lac Barrière reserve in Quebec. Several of them also have drug and alcohol problems.

In addition, Health Canada spent $150,000 on controlling drug and alcohol abuse, fighting family violence and promoting mental health.

Since the minister assured us just the other day that he was making progress on these issues in Quebec, what does he intend to do about this?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the minister of Indian affairs and the Minister of Health, I will have to take the specifics of the question under advisement.

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, let us try another.

Last year a group from this same Algonquin reserve sent the minister a letter pleading with him to remove the chief, who is unelected and has been convicted of assault.

The minister has a fiduciary responsibility for the personal safety of band members and this tragedy is clearly a violation of the person. What does the minister intend to do about this?

[Jack Iyerak Anawak, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

I apologise. I will take the question under advisement and give it to the minister.

Hughes Aircraft

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in 1989, Hughes Aircraft signed a $380 million fixed cost contract to computerize the Canadian air traffic control system known as CATS. We have learned that the project, which was initially slated for completion by 1995, is far behind schedule and that its implementation has been postponed until the end of 1998 or later, at an additional cost of $250 million to Canadian taxpayers.

Does the Minister of Transport confirm that Hughes Aircraft is unable to complete its contract under the terms laid down, and what does he intend to do about this?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question because it is, indeed, an extremely difficult situation for the government. As soon as I learned about the potential problems with this project, I asked the auditor general to launch an investigation. I have also asked the deputy minister to start negotiating right away with Hughes Aircraft to find a solution that would be acceptable to the Canadian government and especially to Canadian taxpayers.

I totally agree with my hon. colleague. This is a situation that we will monitor very closely. However, I think that we have taken the appropriate measures at this time, and I fully intend to follow this matter very closely.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the minister confirms that he asked his deputy minister, Nick Mulder, to reach an agreement with Hughes Aircraft, could he confirm that Hughes Aircraft plans to reduce the size of its contract by 40 to 50 per cent, which would cost Canadian taxpayers another $250 million?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member indicated in his first question, the contract was entered into some time ago. It is problematic. There are negotiations under way. I can confirm there are problems with the contract, with the delivery time and the cost of the contract. We are concerned about the technology and I

want to assure my hon. friend that every attempt will be made to negotiate a settlement in the best interests of the Canadian taxpayer.

I do not want to confirm or deny the exact numbers being discussed. I do want to share with my colleague our deep concern about a matter which has not been dealt with appropriately in my view which has resulted in some corrective measures being taken with the personnel administering that contract. The deputy minister and others who are interested will be reporting to me and I would be more than pleased to keep my colleague informed about the progress of this matter.

Montreal Economy

[Warren Allmand, Liberal, Notre-Dame-De-Grâce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

A study initiated by the Government of Quebec was published yesterday. The report indicated that Montreal could lose 5,000 corporate jobs if Quebec were to separate.

Given that the rate of unemployment in Montreal is unfortunately already at 12 per cent, how could the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs convince the Government of Quebec to cancel the referendum entirely and work seriously with the federal government to resolve the problem of unemployment in Montreal?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that the Parti Quebecois and the Bloc Quebecois platforms are causing increased economic uncertainty and costing us jobs.

What is even more convincing is that this study was done for a minister of the Parti Quebecois, and it concluded that sovereignty will cost thousands of jobs in the Montreal area and that the platforms of the two parties, up to now, have weakened Montreal's economy.

The federal government was able to help create 76,000 new jobs in Montreal last year. We spent $175 million through phase 1 of the Infrastructure Program, and we are extremely disappointed to again see studies proving that sovereignty is costing thousands of jobs in Quebec and in the Montreal area.

Babbar Khalsa Society

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, three years ago Revenue Canada granted charitable status to the Kamloops based Babbar Khalsa Society.

This militant organization has been dedicated to the violent separation of the Indian state of Punjab for over 10 years. The now deceased founder of this organization is suspected of masterminding the terrorist bombing of Air-India flight 182 in June 1985, which resulted in the death of 329 individuals.

Can the Minister of National Revenue please explain how such a group could obtain and continue to receive charitable status?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, some 72,000 organizations have charitable status and the ability to hand out receipts for tax purposes.

The member should recognize that the vast majority of these act very much in the public interest, carry out necessary functions in this society whether it be with respect to health, education, relief of poverty or other such matters.

Many in this group deal with immigrant groups in Canada. Many of them carry out excellent work. The member is wrong to single out a particular organization of which there may be one or two individual members about whom I know nothing and attempt to blacken the entire charitable status of all organizations dealing with immigrants. These organizations assist them to integrate into Canadian society.

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Babbar Khalsa Society in Kamloops continues to provide financial support to Babbar Khalsa International, one of the few militant groups still committing acts of terrorism in the Punjab.

Could the minister please explain to the citizens of both Canada and India why the Canadian taxpayer is subsidizing terrorist activities in India?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has made allegations for which she has given no substantial support in this House by way of evidence.

It is important for her to recognize that there may well be organizations that have activities overseas that are difficult for Revenue Canada to supervise and check. We have an ongoing program within Revenue Canada to examine the charitable status of all organizations that are involved in the charity or non-profit area. We do this on a continuous basis with the resources that we have.

There may be some activities overseas of some organizations on which I would be happy to receive information so we can check further. Under those circumstances, I would be grateful if the hon. member would provide that information so that investigations can be carried out rather than simply making allegations of the type she has made today.

Seasonal Work

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Rejecting the proposals for unemployment insurance reform tabled by the Minister of Human Resources Development, the task force on seasonal work recommended, as did the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development, dropping the provisions in his green book that discriminate against women and seasonal workers.

Considering the broad consensus that has developed on the discriminatory aspects of these two proposals in the green book, will the minister promise to drop them immediately?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, the consultation around the whole issue of social security reform, including unemployment insurance, is probably the broadest public consultation ever undertaken in this country. Over 100,000 Canadians, in a variety of ways, responded to a number of initiatives so their interests and views could be heard.

The committee report of the House of Commons is the key document. We supplemented that, as the hon. member said, with reports on seasonal work and other areas we have been working on. We are simply examining all the representations at the present time.

No decisions have been taken, but I can assure the hon. member that we will take very seriously the concerns and issues raised in both the Commons report and in the seasonal workers' report.

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister apparently is in no hurry to answer the question, but aside from this evasive reply, does the minister not realize that discrimination, whether it is directed against women, seasonal workers or young people, is entirely unacceptable and has no place in his proposals for unemployment insurance reform? It seems to me he could at least say that today.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I have no problem in saying that any reform we want to propose to unemployment insurance will seek the ultimate in fairness and distribution of opportunities.

However, I want to repeat to the hon. member something which I think he knows is important because he was very active on the committee. There was a very large and overwhelming consensus in the country by all those who reported that we must shift the emphasis from unemployment insurance simply as a payment of benefits to providing investment in individual Canadians to help them get back to work. Perhaps the most fair, just and equitable thing we can do is give every Canadian a chance to work.

Immigration

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I asked the immigration minister what he was going to do to stop abuse of Canadian generosity by Sri Lankans who claim to be refugees but then take vacations in Sri Lanka.

Unbelievably, the minister said that he had not been told about the problem. He did not know that all through 1994 immigration officials had been identifying people in Sri Lanka who had refugee status in Canada.

Was the minister aware that bogus refugees were being identified in Sri Lanka? If he was, why did he not do anything about it?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the member just said bogus refugees in Sri Lanka. The member cannot prove that individual refugee claims that may have been placed years ago were bogus. People were accepted as refugee claimants, became landed residents and ultimately became Canadian citizens. They had the ability to travel and with different clans persecuting other clans, circumstances changed. Conditions do change.

If a person makes a refugee claim, is granted asylum as a refugee and immediately turns around and goes into the area where he or she had been persecuted, of course I do not condone that. In fact applications have been revoked for that very reason.

However, one cannot in perpetuity suggest that somehow a refugee claimant at one point in time is not permitted to travel to any other part of the country. A number of legitimate refugee claimants take their security into their own hands. It may be because they have to go back to bury their mother or father. They may want to go back to take possession of the homes and

properties that were confiscated when they were persecuted. There are a lot of mitigating circumstances and we should not draw blanket conclusions.

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canada's humanitarian missions should be to seek out the needy and weed out abusers. Too bad the minister does not share that vision. His compassion extends to special interests and only second to real refugees.

If the minister did not know about the Sri Lankan abuse then what about the 380 Israeli claimants from democratic Israel who were accepted as refugees in Canada by his friends at the IRB?

When will this minister wake up, stop the abuse and protect real refugees who are being bumped back in the queue by these frauds? Quit talking and do your job.

[The Speaker]

I would ask members to please address the Chair in all of the questions and in the answers.

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the problem with members of the Reform Party is they subscribe to jungle justice. Moments ago we heard from a member who undermined an entire organization operating in Canada because of guilt by association. If a person from the legion in British Columbia is guilty, does that mean we should say the entire legion is guilty? If a Canadian of Italian extraction commits a crime does the whole community have to pay?

Mr. Speaker, how do you know who is a refugee and who is not?

Infrastructure Program

[Walt Lastewka, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Mr. Speaker, recently the provincial NDP government in Ontario wrote to 833 municipalities and alleged the federal government was not following through on the financial commitments of the infrastructure program.

I can tell the House the letter from NDP minister Ed Philip created a great deal of concern among mayors and municipal councils in the province.

Can the minister tell me what steps have been taken to reassure Ontario's municipalities of the federal government's intentions regarding the Canada-Ontario infrastructure works program?