Debates of Oct. 24th, 1996

Supply

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

moved:

That this House recognize Montreal as the economic mainspring of Quebec society and, therefore, condemn the federal government's lack of concrete initiatives in supporting the Montreal area economy, primarily: the federal government's under-investment in research and development; its inequitable allocation of federal purchases of goods and services; its lack of willingness to support Montreal as a major financial centre in North America and its termination of Montreal's role as a major transportation centre.

[Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral, Bloc, Laval Centre, QC]

On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wish to inform you that, pursuant to Standing Order 43(2), the members of the official opposition will divide their speaking time in two, each speaking for 10 minutes.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Madam Speaker, in politics, the greatest quality, in my opinion, is sincerity, honesty. When politicians address their electors or the public in general, I believe they have the duty to speak as truthfully as possible about situations as they see them but they must meet certain standards regarding what they say about the reality of the situation.

Yesterday, in this House, we questioned the Prime Minister. A few days ago, he had addressed a group of citizens in Montreal, where he told the chamber of commerce that the federal government was so concerned about the development of their city, that the federal government was so terribly upset about the financial difficulties Montreal is facing and, finally, that the federal government was taking oh so effective steps to support of Montreal's development. That is basically what the Prime Minister said.

As the official opposition, and concerned as we are about what happens to Montreal and even more so about what happens to the people of Montreal, who all too often find themselves jobless and living in poverty, we decided to check whether the statement made by the Prime Minister before the chamber of commerce had any basis whatsoever. Expressing concern about a city's difficulties before its chamber of commerce, in itself, is not enough to solve the problem. It takes more than the Prime Minister of Canada paying lip service to a healthy economy in Montreal, Quebec's metropolis, for economic prosperity to be restored there. It takes some concrete actions.

We asked the Prime Minister if he was prepared to act on this, that or the other issue. We referred to very specific issues that may help restore a healthy economy in Montreal, issues we will discuss in a moment. Not once did we get a clear answer from the Prime Minister, a positive and firm answer like: "In my capacity as the Prime Minister, I undertake to implement this initiative, which will create jobs for the Montreal area". Not once did we succeed in obtaining this kind of a commitment during oral question period.

Yesterday, to my colleague from Hochelaga-Maisonneuve, the Prime Minister gave an answer that spoke volumes about his vision of Quebec development. The hon. member for Hochelaga-Maisonneuve's question was this:

Why does the Prime Minister not agree to making federal procurement in Quebec proportionate to the size of its population?

Why would Canada not adopt a procurement policy based on equity, so that the purchases made with taxpayers' money are distributed according to the relative demographic weight of the various regions? This, I think, would be an interesting way of stimulating the economy in every region of Canada and not always buying, by a strange coincidence, from the same source.

The Prime Minister's answer was this:

Will the hon. member rise in this House and tell the public that, under the equalization payment system through which the Canadian government provides assistance to any region of Canada experiencing financial difficulties-last year, because its revenue was below a certain level, Quebec actually received an extra $500 million from the federal government?

The truth was out. For the Prime Minister of Canada, being fair to a region like Quebec, being fair to Montreal and helping with its development, means equalization payments. For the Prime Minister of Canada, being fair to Quebec means giving Quebec a share equal to the taxes it pays to Ottawa.

For the Prime Minister, real development that comes from producing goods and providing services is good for some regions of Canada, while, for other regions, fairness, material well-being and development mean equalization payments.

What the people listening to us must know is that, indeed, equalization payments are used when a region is unable to generate its own wealth. When a region finds itself in a difficult economic situation, these payments provide needed assistance.

When the Prime Minister comes to Montreal to shed a tear over the issue of development, he does not think about concrete plans or a shift in government policy, about real situations or a new way of looking at things, but about equalization payments.

Even though any economic development the federal government may foster through its purchases and its R and D spending just happens to favour Ontario-90 to 95 per cent in some cases of professional service procurement, while in other cases the figure is 58, 59 or 60 per cent-the Prime Minister tells us: "We have a procurement policy we must adhere to. Would we want to be unfair? The Government of Canada is so honest, so frank, that we call for tenders". But, by a curious coincidence, purchases are always made in the same place. By some strange coincidence, they are rarely made in Montreal.

How can the Prime Minister of Canada explain a vision of economic development based solely on equalization payments? For him and his government, social assistance is the key to Montreal's well-being. That is what the Prime Minister of Canada thinks.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

This is unbelievable. The jobs go to Ontario.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Madam Speaker, we accuse the federal government, its predecessor, and the one before that, of which the Prime Minister was also a member, having been here since the Auto Pact or just about. Federal governments have always made decisions that penalize Montreal.

In the railway industry, federal decisions have cost Montreal 15,000 jobs in the past 15 years. Air traffic has been transferred and, as passengers are now arriving in Toronto instead of Montreal, our airports are in trouble. Government decisions which favour Canadian International over Air Canada will also create problems because Air Canada jobs are located in Montreal, while Canadian's jobs are elsewhere. Indeed, the federal government keeps favouring Canadian over Air Canada.

As for shipping, they are taking decisions which could prove very harmful to St. Lawrence harbours. The Centre for Information Technology Innovation in Laval has lost 80 jobs. The St. Hubert Command Centre is down by at least 480 jobs. The federal government's decision to save $7.5 million means there will be no more research and development in the Montreal area at the Tokamak installation in Varennes. Helped along by the federal government, Atomic Energy of Canada is heading toward Toronto and could take with it some high technology companies in the sector. The creation of a Canada-wide securities commission, which will transfer the nerve centre from Montreal to Toronto, will shift even more activities to Toronto.

But what decisions is the federal government taking that favour Montreal, other than those concerning equalization payments? Last week the Prime Minister was happy to announce for the first time a good decision for Montreal. He was happy, and rightly so, because otherwise he would have had nothing to report. He says he is concerned about the problems of Montreal, about the city's poverty and economic difficulties, but he does nothing.

This is why we chose today to speak about what the government should do, but will not do.

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Secretary of State (Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec)]

Madam Speaker, I first want to thank members of the official opposition for giving the government an opportunity to state its position on the greater Montreal area and to say how it envisions its economic recovery.

Later on, I will have an opportunity to mention the initiatives we have taken in a speech. But I want to reply to the speech delivered by the leader of the official opposition, in which he mentions what concrete measures he would like the government to take. I have the distinct feeling that the leader of the official opposition does not go to Montreal very often if he cannot think of concrete measures taken by the government, because we regularly take action and implement integrated projects that benefit the Montreal region from a national and an international perspective.

In the case of government contracts, the fact is that, in its advertising, the federal government makes sure the private sector has a clear understanding of these contracts which, incidentally, total over one billion dollars in Canada.

As for equalization, why are members of the official opposition against the idea? Because equalization is a basic principle of our political system, of Canadian federalism, and it enables us-and this is something we are proud of-to distribute, in an equitable way, our overall wealth across the country.

What really saddens me is that, once again, members of the official opposition are incapable of rising above purely partisan views. I will not ask the opposition leader to name five projects that were recently announced by the Canadian government in the Montreal region, because he simply would not be able to do so. But I will ask him if he and his head office in Quebec can, in the interest of Montrealers, make constructive proposals based on a vision, in the context of the strategy unveiled this week by the Prime Minister of Canada before the chamber of commerce, something I will come back to later on, in my speech.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Madam Speaker, you will understand that I can hardly keep a straight face when I hear a Liberal like the hon. member opposite telling me that we are not able to rise over partisan politics. In this House, we know all about the government's eagerness to promote its red book, to use government services to promote its funding drives, to appoint its friends everywhere, and the member has the gall to talk about partisanship.

Yes, we are partisans, partisan of development. We are in favour of real development for the Montreal area.

The hon. member is asking for suggestions; I made some and I will make more. The government should have the courage to fairly allocate research and development funding in Canada and to take initiatives for the development of the Montreal area. I think that instead of buying flags for $20 million, the government should invest $7.5 million in the Tokamak project in Varennes, that way it would effectively support the economic development of the Montreal area.

I am in the process of providing an answer.

[The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Ringuette-Maltais)]

The hon. member's speaking time is up. Is there unanimous consent to give the hon. member more time?

[Some hon. members]

Yes.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Ringuette-Maltais)]

The hon. member does not have unanimous consent.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Madam Speaker, it is quite revealing that the secretary of state for regional development in Quebec should thank the opposition for giving him the opportunity to talk about Montreal. Just imagine. He needs to be given that opportunity by the opposition because the government does not give it to him. That is quite something.

Today, my colleagues will be talking about a whole series of actions, or non actions, rather, of the federal government affecting Montreal. But first of all, I think it is worthwhile to set some objective criteria to better understand the situation in Montreal.

A very interesting study has been made of 15 big cities in the world, including three Canadian cities, Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal. Various indicators can be used to better assess the situation in Montreal. On that basis, we will see who is responsible for what, and what the federal government is doing or not doing in Montreal.

If we look at labour cost indicators, we see that Montreal ranks third, behind London and Stockholm, for directors general; second, behind London, for secretaries and professional engineers; third, behind London, Stockholm and Vancouver, for system analysts; third, behind Atlanta and London, for laboratory technicians, and fourth, behind Toronto, Atlanta and Los Angeles for electronic assemblers.

We compare very well, contrary to what some would have us believe, such as the militant community paper of the West Island, The Gazette , which paints quite another picture of Montreal for its North American and worldwide readership.

On the business tax indicator, Montreal ranks second, behind Stockholm. On the R and D cost indicator, Montreal is the very first city in the world. On the telecommunications cost indicator, it ranks second, with Toronto, behind London. Montreal has the cheapest first class office space in the world.

On the industrial land cost indicator, Montreal ranks second behind Atlanta. It stands in third position, behind Toronto and Atlanta, on the industrial construction cost indicator. Montreal holds to the third sport, behind Vancouver and Stockholm, on the hydro cost indicator, despite our harsh winter. For natural gas, Montreal ranks fifth in a group of 15 cities, which is not bad.

In terms of the quality of life index, Montreal is third with an index of 1000, behind Toronto and Vancouver, which are about at the same level with indexes of 1002 and 1003 respectively. In terms of public security, Montreal is sixth out of 15 cities. The cost of living index has Montreal in second place right behind Vancouver, with only a point difference. Montreal ranks first for its cost of housing index.

So, these are very encouraging statistics, and yet Montreal faces some serious problems. There are those who would say this is due to political uncertainty. That is the expression they are using these days. In answer to which we argue that there is one certainty, which is that the members opposite are doing absolutely nothing. And we can prove it.

When they talk about political uncertainty, I can still hear the big names supporting federalism, such as Laurent Beaudoin of Bombardier, for instance, who said during the 1992 debate: "You know, political uncertainty is preventing people from investing in Montreal and that is terrible." The same week, he announced the biggest investment Bombardier ever made outside the country. It bought Short Corporation in a city known for its incredible stability, Belfast. Belfast is a very stable city.

When the Prime Minister travels with Team Canada, he goes to visit Russia, another very stable country, Russia is. We see it all the time, the mafia is practically running the whole country over there. The rouble is not worth much. They are out of money. Yes, indeed, a very stable country.

Now we have free trade with Mexico, and is Mexico more stable than the province of Quebec? Do we have something like Chiapas in Quebec? Is the former premier of Quebec in hiding somewhere in the world, because he is accused of fraud and suspected of murder? Come on! Get serious. We are all in favour of trade with our Mexican friends, but do not compare the stability in Quebec with the situation in Mexico. That is pushing it! You might be Liberals, but I hope you can still reason a little bit better than this.

Still on the issue of stability, we are now negotiating a free trade agreement with Israel. That country is on the news every night. Can you compare the political stability in Jerusalem with that of Montreal? Of course not.

They like to use the expression "political uncertainty" and when they do I can see them smiling, because they are glad to see what is happening in Quebec. They say one thing when they are in Montreal and something else when they are in Ottawa. That is what the Prime Minister likes to do. We all know that.

Now we are going to talk about the real things, the real figures, and I guess my hon. colleague, the Secretary of State for the Federal Office of Regional Development, does believe in the work of Statistics Canada. I guess it is a reliable federal institution, graded A+. We will see about that.

Expenditures on goods and services: federal structuring expenditures in Quebec in 1994, 19.7 per cent; grants and subsidies to businesses, 20.5 per cent; capital financing, 18.3 per cent; total structuring expenditures in Quebec, 19.7 per cent; Quebec population, 24.9 per cent. We seem to be short of 5 per cent here. And yet this is published by Statistics Canada and not by the Bloc Quebecois.

Federal investments in Quebec: 1993, 18.5 per cent; 1994, 15.7 per cent; 1995, 15.3 per cent; 1996, 13.2 per cent. These are the figures. These are the facts. Everything else is only rhetoric and lip service on the part of all of the prime ministers, from Trudeau to this one. And I see that the one who is getting ready to take over is sending the same signals, is thinking along the same lines, is backing us into the same corner.

That party, as paleontologists would say, is an exemple of an evolutionary dead end.

To conclude, I move, seconded by my colleague from Laval-Centre:

That the motion be amended by adding immediately after the word "recognize" the following:

"the area of".

[The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Ringuette-Maltais)]

I declare the amendment in order.

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Secretary of State (Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec)]

Madam Speaker, again I thank the official opposition for giving me the opportunity to talk about our vision for Montreal. As my colleague from Laurier-Sainte-Marie said, if the government did not talk about the metropolitan area, why then is the opposition making it the subject of this allotted day.

The Canadian government takes this opportunity to tell the people that it has been and will continue to be present in the metropolitan area. The whole of Team Canada is present in the metropolitan area. Frankly, I must say that I now understand why members of the official opposition, when I ask them to propose concrete and constructive ideas for the strategy we set forward as a government, are unable to make any real suggestion.

The answer comes from my colleague from Laurier-Sainte-Marie. The members opposite are still stuck on statistics, they are still at the drawing table, while we on the government side have been acting for a very long time. We have been working hard so that the metropolitan area can take its place in the province of Quebec and continue to play a major role within Canada, and that Montreal can continue to be the international city all Canadians are so proud of.

This being said, I would like to ask the hon. member for Laurier-Sainte-Marie if he can propose any real solution, today, in terms of our strategy for Montreal. I know that they know nothing about this strategy and, naturally, they are a little bit more eloquent about it. But could the member at least try to tell us that his party is now past the stage of studies and statistics and has gone as far as the government, which has been acting for a very long time. Do you have any concrete solutions?

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Madam Speaker, it is amazing that a secretary of state who wants to become a minister tells us that he does not want to hear about statistics. He should follow the basic political training from the Minister of Finance. He talks about it all day long. I think he knows his subject better than the person responsible for regional development in Quebec. While we do not agree with what he does, at least we understand what the minister says. That, however, is another matter.

The secretary of state asks for suggestions. The leader of our party just submitted some to him. Yesterday, we asked questions. Sometimes, it is better to talk less and to listen more. You can make another effort. Take a pencil and write down my suggestions; or, better yet, I can make a copy of them for you. There are four of them.

Regarding the financial sector, can the government make a commitment not to establish a Canadian Securities Commission? That is one suggestion. That is the first one. Here is the second one. Regarding the development decisions dealing with energy, can the government abandon the idea of transferring-I speak slowly because it takes time to write these suggestions down-the offices of Atomic Energy of Canada from Montreal to Toronto? And will it also undertake to maintain the subsidies to Tokamak , T-O-K-A-M-A-K? That is for the second suggestion.

As for federal spending, will it guarantee with respect to regional development, defence spending and capital spending that Quebec

will benefit from more than 19.7 per cent of development spending? That is the third suggestion. But the secretary of state is not listening, that is why he does not understand.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

He did not write down anything.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

And the fourth suggestion relates to tax equity: will the government sign an agreement regarding the GST, as it did with the Maritime Provinces?

[David Iftody, Liberal, Provencher, MB]

That is not true.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Ma-ri-ti-mes.

That is the fourth one. We made quite a number of suggestions since yesterday. As the day goes by, the secretary of state will have filled all the pages of his notebook. If, one day, he can start listening and taking notes, he will then be able to act. Meanwhile, he does nothing.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Secretary of State (Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec)]

Madam Speaker, I can understand that members of the official opposition have nothing concrete to suggest for our Montreal strategy because I think they have not quite yet understood the big picture with regard to the Canadian government's intervention in the Montreal metropolitan area.

I will take a few minutes to explain our intervention in a region that is vital not only to Quebec but to Canada. When we look at Greater Montreal, it is, in many respects, the economic force behind the whole country.

I like to say this because I think it is true: Montreal is Canada and Canada is Montreal. The metropolitan area is at the heart of our history. Therefore, you will certainly understand that for the Canadian government, which I represent, the development of the metropolitan area is most important and, as such, is included in our priorities.

The government's desire for dynamic intervention in the metropolitan area must be understood and must be put in perspective. It must be understood in the sense that a modern country, a country that wants to have a dynamic economic structure and that wants to be highly competitive, must ensure that its large metropolitan areas are economically healthy.

Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Halifax, Montreal, these cities are all vital to our country, and they all must be in excellent financial health.

Canada is sensitive to the vitality of these cities. We have developed an intervention strategy for the Montreal metropolitan area, as we have done for other regions of Canada. As secretary of State responsible for regional development, I can talk proudly about this strategy. I think it is important for the people who are listening to me today to understand what the Canadian government means to the metropolitan area.

There are 32,500 federal employees in Greater Montreal. This means that the federal government's second largest service centre is in the metropolitan area. That is why this area so important to the Canadian government, and that is also why we can say that the federal government is a major partner in this area.

The salaries paid to these federal employees represents $732 million a year. When we are speaking about development programs, we speak about programs which cost $765 million a year. When we speak about one hundred per cent research and development programs, we are talking about interventions totalling $485 million in 1993.

Therefore, as you can see, our involvement is structured and our presence is enormous. We have chosen for the region of Montreal an essentially horizontal intervention strategy, that is, one which allows all the departments to act in a concerted way, to work, as Team Canada, for the metropolitan region in order to maximize all the different federal programs provided to Montrealers.

We did the same thing in the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean area. We did the same thing recently with certain regional development initiatives, such as the Gatig Fund in the Quebec-Chaudière-Appalaches region. We did the same thing when the time came to help the Lower St. Lawrence-Gaspé region with the ground fish strategy, and we are doing the same thing for other Canadian regions.

To get involved in the metropolitan area means to provide structure and to act with vision. To do this, we have chosen focuses. The Canadian government's intervention is focussed essentially on its fields of jurisdiction, on elements which may lead to a considerable and significant progress for the metropolitan area.

The focuses of intervention are as follows: the development of science and technology; the development of the metropolitan area for the international market; helping the small and medium size businesses; the development of culture and tourism industries, which are fundamental elements; and the social and economic development at the local level of the different communities of Montreal.

These are the structuring measures we are taking in the beautiful Montreal region, and I think that it is important to underline the fact that these measures come within the scope of the major priorities of the government. In 1993, we received a mandate from the Canadian people. We did what we were elected to do and the strategy, of which I just enumerated the five elements, revolves around the government's priorities.

These priorities are, of course, job creation, economic growth, helping businesses to adapt to the new economy and support for Canadian youth.

That being said, I think that we all have a basic role to play with regard to the structuring elements in greater Montreal. The Canadian government gets involved and has its strategy for the Montreal area, but I think that we must understand that the greater Montreal area concerns the Canadian government, the Quebec government, Montreal itself and all the surrounding towns and cities, as well as the private sector.

In greater Montreal there is a whole spectrum of stakeholders who have decided to work in partnership. Now, let me review our interventions with concrete examples.

In the area of science and technology, I made a speech yesterday before the members of the space industry, not the aerospace sector, but a very specific part of it, the space industry. The Canadian government has been involved in the space industry for more than 20 years. We played a major role to help an industrial area recognized not only here in Canada, but all over the world. So, when we talk about the first element, science and technology, we can say that the Canadian government has been a major partner in aeronautics, biotechnology, pharmacology, telecommunications, information technologies and multimedia.

In connection with the elements I have just mentioned, which come under science and technology, a number of companies have sprung up, thanks to the vision of the Canadian government, and thanks also to the infrastructure in the Montreal area, to the quality of the workforce, and to our vision, because we focused on science and technology.

And as for the successes we are seeing today, with respect to concrete projects, I must say that the government is rather proud to be associated with these achievements, because these companies are, in a way, one of the cornerstones of our Canadian society. I will list them for you. There is Bell Helicopter, Ericsson, Biochem Pharma, Merck Frosst, CAE Electronics, Spar, SR Telecom, Harris, Farinon, Lallemand, the Institut Rosell, and I could go on. These success stories are all because of the Canadian government's vision and its strategy for action.

Again, just recently, it was with great pride that we entered into partnership with Bombardier and Canadair in the aerospace field, with the result that the 70 seat stretch CRX jet was finally developed. This will allow us to create or maintain over 1,000 jobs in the greater Montreal area. We are focusing on partnership, and I think that one of the messages I want to get across today is that we are doing so because it is together that we are going to be able to rebuild and recreate the dynamic level of activity that Montreal has a right to expect.

Other examples. In biotechnology, there is the Biotechnology Research Institute of greater Montreal, founded in 1983, was the impetus behind a good number of technology firms that are international successes today. Think of Ibex Technologies, Bio Signal, or Quantum Biotechnolgies. The institute has such a reputation that we are now attracting international investments. There is also the Dutch company Bio Intermediair.

This has all been made possible through the National Research Council of Canada. And again, recently, proud of the assistance it has provided, proud of its contribution to science and technology, the Canadian government, through my colleague, the Minister of Industry, has announced a $20 million expansion of the institute, which will make room for 20 additional firms. This is what we mean when we talk about structuring activities.

The second area is international development: 40 per cent of the jobs created in 1995 are related to international development, the conquest of new markets by our small businesses. Naturally, we play a role by providing advice to these businesses, helping them to fine-tune their export capabilities, but we also play an international role with our added value, which is the pride of Quebecers, in the form of our network of embassies and consulates in over 126 countries, with their trade advisors, who are there to assist our small businesses.

On the international scene, we seem to forget that the Canadian government has been very dynamic in its promotion of Montreal as the site for certain secretariats. Whether with the secretariat of the North American Commission on Environmental Co-operation, the secretariat of the United Nations Convention on Biological Diversity, or the secretariat of the Convention to Control Desertification, we have been doing our level best to help Montreal consolidate itself as an international region. And what about the Centre de conférences internationales de Montréal, which we support not only through its operating budget, but also through funding for international development.

Those are fundamental interventions, in some cases involving partnerships with the Government of Quebec and the private sector. We shall shortly be announcing Montréal international, another developmental element, one which will enable Montreal to fully assume its deserved role in terms of international endeavours.

The third concerns the development of small and medium business. The right balance between small and big business must be struck. In my opinion, announcements such as the one by Bombardier and Canadair are full of promise for small business, because they will lead to sub-contracts, which are good not just for the

metropolitan region but for all regions of Quebec, for sub-contractors are located just about everywhere in Quebec.

The Government of Canada intervenes with small and medium businesses, first of all to help them adapt to the new economic context, but also to ensure that young entrepreneurs can get help starting up and becoming competitive. We do so-and I feel this is an important point-because the new government is one which offers support and expertise, for instance via such programs as Strategis for small business.

And then we could also mention the Centre d'entreprise et d'innovation de Montréal, just another example of how we are, always have been, and will continue to be, major partners in the development of small business in Quebec.

The fourth bridge is development of the cultural and tourist industries. Such elements as the Vieux Port, the parc des Îles and the Pointe-à-Callière museum are all of importance to the metropolitan region. Tourism, for instance, represents 40,000 jobs in greater Montreal. We play our part in this sector through the Canadian Tourism Commission or the OCTGM with which we entered into a $2.5 million partnership.

In the case of local communities, we act with the greatest respect for their realities and needs in terms of development, through CDEC, for example. All those examples show that the Canadian government has been and continues to be major partner.

If you will allow me a few more minutes, I referred, as part of this intervention, to a horizontal strategy and I must emphasize the collaboration of all the federal departments, which contributed their share to metropolitan Montreal and are working in close collaboration, be it Industry Canada, Heritage Canada, Transport Canada, to name just a few.

When we refer to partnership, this means we also count on the collaboration of all stakeholders. I know that there will be a socio-economic summit at the end of this month in Quebec. In this regard, I will quote what the Prime Minister said this week when he spoke before the Montreal Chamber of Commerce. He said: "Premier Bouchard will host an economic summit. It is very important that tangible results come out of it for Montreal and the rest of Quebec". This is what the Canadian government is: a partner with a vision, a partner that lends a hand and that is present.

In short, we play our part, for instance the way we did in Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean. I wish to emphasize, in closing, as the Prime Minister did so well this week, that there is something important we have to do and it is to get rid of this sword of Damocles, which we have over our heads at this time and has a damaging effect on Montreal as well as on the rest of Quebec.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Secretary of State for his speech. He is aware of my concern about the situation in Montreal. I am very confident speaking about these issues since I am a Montrealer, born and bred in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve. I have always lived there and cannot imagine living anywhere else. However, I cannot say I share the optimism of the Secretary of State.

There is something we should all remember. I am sure the Secretary of State is aware that a few days ago, the mayor of Montreal, who is not a Bloc member and has no sovereignist leanings, appeared before the committee on taxation. In his brief, and I am sure the Secretary of State had occasion to read it, the mayor reminded us of an undisputable fact, which led the opposition to move the motion before the House on this opposition day. He reminded us that as a result of the government's neglect, and I would challenge anyone on the government benches to prove otherwise, today Montreal is the poverty capital of Canada.

I may recall a quote from a report by a federal agency. In his brief, the mayor of Montreal said: "A recent report by the Canadian-and I insist on the word Canadian-Council on Social Development shows that in Montreal, the poverty rate is at 22 per cent, the highest of any Canadian city. According to the report, in Montreal one child out of five lives in poverty". I am not the kind of political demagogue who believes that poverty is the individual's fault. That is not what we are discussing today.

Will the Secretary of State admit that a number of measures deliberately introduced by his government have helped to make Montreal a city where poverty is widespread? I am referring to the unemployment insurance, now employment insurance reform. In Quebec, both the Fortin report and the Bouchard report indicated there was a connection between the reform and the fact that people were going on welfare. Will the Secretary of State rise in the House to tell us that the government admits that this kind of measure is helping to pauperize Montreal?

Finally, I would like to quote from the red book, which has now become the black book for Montreal, in which the government made three promises. I would like to hear what the Secretary of State has to say on the subject. It said that the government would promote the use of community groups and partnerships to revitalize local economies. Would the Secretary of State agree that the proposed reform in which he was very much involved has helped to pauperize Montreal?

The red book also referred to revitalizing the housing industry through a renovation program that would be of particular benefit to old neighbourhoods. That is all very well, but today, the federal government is not putting a cent into subsidized housing. It has withdrawn completely. Will the Secretary of State work actively in

his caucus on obtaining compensation for Montreal? That is my question, and I ask it as a friend.

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to answer the question asked by my colleague for Hochelaga-Maisonneuve. with whom I had the opportunity to work this summer. I will come back to this.

The mayor of Montreal was mentioned earlier. I must say that the mayor of Montreal is exceptionally co-operative as far as the intervention strategy is concerned. He is a man who does a great deal for his region, who is committed and with whom we work very well because he also understands that we can develop the metropolitan area in partnership.

I listen to the members of the official opposition and, what I like about the question of the member for Hochelaga-Maisonneuve is that he has given me the opportunity to be more specific. When one talks about the fifth intervention in the area of economic and social development at the local and community level, my colleague knows very well that the Canadian government is one of the major partners in the metropolitan area in terms of respect of the community development, of intervention, of partnership.

Think of the CDEC network, think of the pilot project conducted jointly with the Minister of Finance. The Réseau Centre-Sud has just been established in order to be able to adapt development-after the disappearance of some big corporations in about 20 years-to adapt development to regional realities. I say to the Member for Hochelaga-Maisonneuve, think of the Société de développement Angus.

This summer, I received a call from my colleague who was asking me to see what can be done in his region in terms of revitalization or local development, but always in a perspective of tourist or cultural economic development.

That is what the Government of Canada can and must do, and that is what we did together. We visited his community together, meeting with stakeholders. He knew very well that the Government of Canada had not only the structure and the capacity, but also the necessary concern about the various neighbourhoods of the metropolitan area, because such is our role.

That is why I want to conclude by saying to the official opposition that, in statistical terms, we are far past the stage of the drawing board. It seems to me the the strategy of the members opposite is to slow down government action which has proved effective in the past in the greater Montreal region, and which will remain effective, because we are eager to work for the benefit of the everybody in the metropolitan region and in Quebec, as well as in the rest of Canada.

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Madam Speaker, I want to ask a question and make a comment. I hope the secretary of state will pay close attention.

If he is to be believed, the federal government is doing everything for Montreal. What a lot of rhetoric. He said we are way beyond the drawing board or the planning stage, statistics are irrelevant now.

I would like to ask the secretary of state a few questions. Given the statistics we heard earlier, it is clear that every time Montreal gives a dollar to Ottawa, Ottawa returns $0.75 to Montreal. That means Montreal is receiving three quarters for each dollar it pays.

The secretary of state will have to admit that, according to Statistics Canada, and its figures should be reliable, all those accomplishments he just listed are nothing but a description of the way those three quarters are spent. What about the fourth one? Is it that generosity, that charity, called equalization? Montrealers do not want charity; they want jobs.