Debates of Oct. 3rd, 1996

National Defence

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, there is no question that the majority of work that was done in Somalia by our forces was exceptionally good. However, a serious problem has been identified and it is being dealt with by the commission.

This government feels it would be inappropriate to issue such a medal at this time. Those people who will be deserving of a medal will get their medal in due course. However, I think we owe it to the commission and to a sense of fair play and justice to allow the commission to do its work before we proceed on any other matter.

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the government's failure to issue a Somalia medal shows its complete disregard for morale in the Canadian Armed Forces

The Prime Minister is rewarding his bad apples, General Boyle and the defence minister, when they do not deserve it. Through his lack of leadership, the Prime Minister has caused morale in the forces to suffer.

When will the government shift its obsessive and misguided support for the defence minister and General Boyle to recognize armed forces personnel who served in Somalia on Canada's behalf?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I think the Prime Minister and I have dealt with most of these points in recent days.

The hon. member is often talking about the morale in the armed forces. There is no question that when people see television or newspaper reports of the inflammatory rhetoric that comes from the opposition day in and day out, that obviously affects morale.

This is a difficult time for the armed forces. It is time for everyone to pull together and allow justice to take its course. I remind the hon. member, although he should know, a former member of the Canadian Armed Forces, that morale does not come only from leadership. Morale comes from a sense of worth, a sense of mission and a sense of duty to the country.

I have every confidence in the men and women of the armed forces, despite the problems we are facing, that they feel they are getting that sense of worth, that they have a sense of mission and that they are serving with distinction despite all these problems.

Official Languages

[Jean-Paul Marchand, Bloc, Québec-Est, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the report on official languages in the public service, tabled this morning by the President of the Treasury Board, once again confirms that the federal government applies a double standard in its official languages policy.

My question is directed to the President of the Treasury Board. In Quebec, 54 per cent of the positions in the federal public service are bilingual, to serve an anglophone minority that represents 10 per cent of the population. Why are francophones in Ontario and New Brunswick not entitled to the same quality of service in their language?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, I think the opposition member missed the main point of the report. The main point is that the position of official languages in Canada is improving steadily, and the report indicates that progress is continuing in nearly all areas, including service to the public, language of work and equitable representation of francophones and anglophones in the Public Service.

In Quebec, the proportion of anglophones and allophones is nearly 20 per cent, and consequently we have a proportionate number of bilingual public servants which reflects the needs of the province.

In the other provinces, the percentages are much lower, and consequently the number of bilingual public servants is lower but adequate to existing needs.

[Jean-Paul Marchand, Bloc, Québec-Est, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government will not give francophones in the rest of Canada the same services as anglophones in Quebec. How can the President of the Treasury Board be a party to such discrimination, being a francophone himself?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, it is not true there is discrimination against francophones. About 63,000 positions in the Public Service have been designated bilingual. The

total percentage of francophone public servants in the Public Service is 27 per cent, while the proportion of francophones in the general population is 24.9 per cent. So there is no discrimination as far as numbers are concerned.

I would also like to point out that if there is a problem, it is due to the fact that in Quebec, the proportion of anglophone public servants is only 5 per cent, while anglophones represent 13 per cent of the population. We will make every effort to correct this imbalance as we have done in the case of francophone communities outside Quebec.

[English]

Canadian Heritage

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, how quickly the heritage minister forgets her GST promises.

Over the last six months the Minister of Canadian Heritage has announced spending of $20 million on Liberal propaganda, $23 million on flags, $16 million on Radio Canada, and $100 million on a TV production fund. Not one penny of the money appears in the minister's detailed budget but it does add up to a grand total of $159 million.

How can the Minister of Canadian Heritage defend $140 million GST on books while spending $159 million in unbudgeted, borrowed money?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I happy that the member has raised the issue of spending for flags. Over past months I have received a number of requests from across the country for flags. In particular, I received from the constituency office of Jim Gouk-

[The Speaker]

I ask hon. members not to refer to other members by their name.

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Hamilton East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have received faxes from the office of the member for Red Deer looking for flags-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Earlier in the question period I asked that members not use props. Of course, we are going to be referring to material which is written. I would ask you not to use the paper to wave it around or to use it as a prop. I would appreciate you doing that. I will return to the hon. Deputy Prime Minister for a brief response.

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Hamilton East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there are further faxes from the member for Port Moody, British Columbia and further faxes from the member for Capilano-Howe Sound.

[Some hon. members]

More, more.

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Hamilton East, ON]

Faxes, Mr. Speaker, from a number of members of the Reform Party who obviously believe that the flag program is a popular and useful program.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I do not quite understand the minister's point.

Is she saying that Reform members should not be acting on behalf of their constituents when they come into their offices? She is simply trying to deflect the fact that when she was told that her Liberal propaganda office was going to cost $20 million, she said: "Oh, that's only a cup of coffee for every Canadian". That is a typical Liberal answer.

How can the minister justify this spending, wrapping herself in the flag and doing all of these things while at the same time leaving the tax, the GST, on books?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the third party obviously has a very strong affiliation with the flag program as well because in his constituency over 1,000 people have called the government concerning this most popular program ever.

Over the last seven months the government has received over three million calls. Those same individuals in the Reform Party who stand day after day in the House of Commons complaining about the flag program have no shame in demanding that they receive flags for their constituents. Unfortunately for the Reform Party they cannot have it both ways.

National Defence

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence.

The embezzlement scandal at Valcartier continues to cause a stir. The lead witness in the inquiry into this matter contends that Public Works and Government Services Canada simply ignored schemes to bypass the tendering process. Clearly, the military police investigation was not very thorough. While this has been a widespread practice for at least 15 years, only 4 charges have been laid.

Given the very serious nature of the allegations and since this form of corruption is apparently commonplace in several other bases across the country, will the minister launch an independent inquiry into this other scandal?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, regarding the allegations the hon. member referred to, of course it is understood that, if certain things are not as they should be, the authorities are prepared to investigate as required.

As far as the news report he mentioned is concerned, I have asked my officials to fill me in on what happened. I am told that a contract that could be extended for more than one year was awarded. During the first year of the contract, additional work was requested and performed. Later, the department asked for an explanation for this work and an explanation was provided. The work had to be paid for since it had been done; there was no choice.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

This does not sound very reassuring, Mr. Speaker. Taxpayers have the right to know how their money is used.

My question is for the Minister of Defence. Does the minister not realize that, by not calling an independent inquiry into this matter, he is lacking transparency and indirectly condoning a fraudulent scheme which, I remind him, is said to be widespread in several other bases, costing taxpayers in Quebec and Canada a fortune?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I said last week, we are obviously aware of what has been going on there and disciplinary action has been taken. Certain charges have been laid and other charges may be laid.

The way to deal with a problem, no matter how regrettable, is to allow the normal course of justice to go on. Those people who have committed an offence will be dealt with appropriately.

As to the allegation about this series of events which have gone on at Base Val Cartier being prevalent across the country, I would invite the hon. member to give us evidence of that. Is this just wild speculation? If he has evidence then he has an obligation to bring it forward to me or to others so that we can investigate it.

Foreign Affairs

[Sarkis Assadourian, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

The final post-election statement on the recent Armenian presidential elections concluded that very serious breaches in the election laws took place affecting the outcome. Over 250 opposition members, including eight members of Parliament, have been arrested.

Can the minister assure the House that the government will review its policy toward Armenia to guarantee the protection of the democratic process and the physical safety and human rights of Armenian citizens?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for Don Valley North for bringing to the attention of the House a serious breach in election law that took in Armenia.

Canada is one of the few countries that actually sent observers as part of the OSCE team. We have now undertaken to represent to the OSCE that there should be a full scale assessment given to the government of Armenia and ask it for a clear answer to the criticisms of that breach of the process.

We have also conveyed directly to the Armenian ambassador here our very deep concern about the breach of the rights of certain people in the assembly in Armenia and we hope to have a response from that government soon. If we do not get a response I can assure the hon. member and other members of the House that we will take all the actions necessary to make sure the democratic process is respected in that country.

Canadian Heritage

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, spending priorities say a lot about a government. This summer while hospitals were closing, while universities were cutting back on classes, while seniors prepared themselves for the benefits clawback, while the GST was being levied on the books and while the debt climbed up toward $600 billion, our heritage minister dug deep into taxpayers' pockets and found another $23 million for flags.

I realize that the broken GST promise has probably harmed her future leadership bid, but does she really think that taxpayers would prefer cutting in health, education and other priority areas while spending moneys on a flag program?