Debates of Nov. 7th, 1996

The Film Industry

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, there is an application under the Investment Canada Act under review.

The provisions of the law prevent us from discussing the contents of that application and I will not do so.

Ethics

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is again for the Prime Minister regarding the ministerial use of government credit cards.

Canadian taxpayers have the right to full disclosure and therefore have the right to see complete copies of credit card statements and supporting documents.

In the interest of openness and accountability, will the Prime Minister direct that these documents be tabled in their entirety?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

No, Mr. Speaker. The House or the members do not have access to personal information of a confidential nature. This is a right of individuals that is protected in our laws and that we will continue to protect.

So that members will know exactly the source, it is under section 19 of the Access to Information Act: "A government institution shall not disclose personal information". That includes Parliament.

The Access to Information Act goes on to say: "The definition of personal information stated under the Privacy Act applies". Personal financial transactions are clearly included under personal information.

The member should apply his time to other types of questions rather than hitting a wall that protects the privacy of personal information.

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Mr. Speaker, clearly when a minister puts personal expenses on a government card, that individual has moved it from the private to the public domain. That is the issue here.

What we want are the facts that are missing. In just the six months for which we currently have some information, at least $9,300 is unaccounted for. We have no documentation for the other two and a half years. This could be cleared up very simply by the tabling of complete, un-whited documents.

Will the Prime Minister direct this openness, that these documents be tabled?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the member is simply and clearly inviting me to break the law. I think this is unethical behaviour.

Tobacco

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

We know that the health minister is so anxious to table a bill governing the use of tobacco that he has urged the public not to

vote Liberal if the bill is not passed before the next election. But we also know that there is another group within the Liberal caucus vigorously opposed to tobacco control legislation.

Can the Prime Minister, who has surely discussed this issue with his minister at the special meeting of cabinet, tell us whether his government will be going ahead with this bill?

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the member is right about one thing and that is the minister has made an unequivocal statement that there will be legislation and that it will follow all the parameters that he has indicated up to this point: the Supreme Court decision, the priority of the health of Canadians, and all the consultations that have followed as a result of the blueprint document.

As to everything else, because we live in a democratic society, people are welcome to present their views, but there is no deviation from the issue that the minister has put forward. The legislation will come and it will be definitive.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while I am all for tobacco control legislation, the major problem of sponsorship of sports and cultural events has yet to be resolved.

Is the Prime Minister aware of this problem and will he undertake to find a solution before the next election?

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health]

But the solution is already there, madam.

Mr. Speaker, pardon me.

The solution is already there. The legislation will follow the indications that I offered to the House a moment ago and it will in no way inhibit any Canadian, whether they be individual or corporate, from making decisions about how they will contribute to and fund any cultural, sporting or recreational activities that contribute to the common good. There will be no indication that anyone will be impeded from so doing.

I ask the member and all members of the House to be patient and wait until the legislation comes forward. Then she and others will see the details.

Exports

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Trade.

Canada has been one of the main proponents in establishing the World Trade Organization and the rules based dispute settlement that goes along with it. This last year the Liberal government could have taken the dispute with the United States on softwood lumber to the World Trade Organization. Instead it has caved in to the Americans and accepted export quotas.

Thousands of jobs in the forest industry will be lost because of this government's misguided, bureaucratic and unworkable quota system. What is the minister going to do about it?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, we went the route of an agreement with the United States because that is what the industry wanted in all provinces. That is what the provincial governments wanted as well. They knew that, in fact, our chances of success at the WTO were very iffy and that we would have years and years of legal wrangling. They wanted stability and certainty.

On top of that, in terms of the formula as to how the allocations were made, it was the industry that brought forward the suggestions on which the allocations were made with the concurrence of the provinces.

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it seems ironic that after only six days of this quota system we are getting a flood of mail from mills that are going to be out of business. If all the stakeholders put together such a good deal, why are all these companies going to be put out of business? What went wrong?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the price of lumber went up substantially in the United States and, seeing a good business proposition, these companies decided to rush the border with lots of lumber, knowing full well that the quota was going to be based on their past experience. They put themselves in the position they are in. They created their own misfortune and put their employees in jeopardy with that kind of action.

Notwithstanding that, we have established a quota bank to give the lumber companies that have used up all their quota an opportunity to draw on it in terms of next year's allocations so they can continue to do business and provide jobs in the lumber industry.

Immigration

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General.

Although the Minister of Justice stated in this House last October 7 that some real progress was being made in the battle against the smuggling of illegal immigrants, we learned again this morning that the Canadian borders seem to have become a real

sieve, and that our country is being used as a means of transit for illegal immigrants from Asia headed for the United States.

In light of the intensification of this problem, can the minister tells us what additional efforts his government is bringing to bear on controlling the Canadian borders more effectively?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I thought the hon. member was going to get up to congratulate the RCMP, the immigration department and the various other police forces for their recent success in smashing a major international ring which was smuggling immigrants.

This success is an indication of what the federal government is doing, which is to work jointly with other federal departments and police forces to break up the rings which smuggle people and goods. We are working to deal with this serious situation in a way that protects our traditional open borders which are important to the vast majority of people in this country and in our neighbouring countries.

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have no congratulations to offer to either the minister or the RCMP. In early October, one woman died as a result of this smuggling.

In order to put an end to this unacceptable smuggling of people, which may involve accomplices in high places in Hong Kong, can the minister inform us of the steps that have been taken, and the agreements there have been, if any, with authorities in the countries of origin of these illegal immigrants?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I can only repeat that the federal government treats this matter very seriously. It has been intensifying its efforts through joint forces activities involving our national police force, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, our immigration department, and police forces of other countries.

I repeat that I think the hon. member has disappointed millions of Canadians including his own constituents for not congratulating the RCMP and their colleagues for their success in breaking up a major immigrant smuggling ring.

Employment Insurance

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Over the past few weeks the leader of the Conservative Party in Prince Edward Island has promised that if elected, he would out of the EI act obtain an interest free $75 million loan from the Government of Canada to establish a venture capital fund. In my view, this would be highly illegal under the act and Mr. Binns knows better.

Could the minister clarify specifically, can funds be taken from the employment insurance account and given to a provincial government for such a purpose?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the Employment Insurance Act makes it absolutely clear that the employment insurance fund is not a slush fund for the use of this government or any provincial government in the land. The employment insurance fund is there to help Canadians get back to work. It is there to finance active measures such as wage subsidies, earning supplements, self-employment assistance, job creation partnerships and skills loans and grants.

Our government will be working with the Government of Prince Edward Island. Right now we are working on a transitional job fund of about $10 million. However it is not a solution to go to the employment insurance account for such a thing.

Lumber Industry

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Comox—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the government has once again caved in to the American lumber lobby and it is costing Canadians thousands of jobs in our lumber industry.

I am a professional forester and I have spent 25 years in the forestry industry. Never before have I witnessed such secrecy surrounding the allocation of quotas to individual lumber mills; quotas that are far below expected levels and are forcing mills to severely downsize or shut down altogether. What I find most disturbing is that producers have been instructed by the minister not to divulge their individual quotas.

My question is for the minister of trade. To clear this veil of secrecy regarding quotas, will the minister table in the House a full list of quota allocations showing all lumber producers in all provinces?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

No, Mr. Speaker, but if the individual companies want to divulge their own quotas they can do so. If they have no problem

with that in terms of competition and commercial confidentiality, they are quite free to do that but certainly it is not my intention.

The hon. member may have been in the forestry industry for a long period of time, but I do not think he ever got out of the woods or he would soon know that in fact the industry wanted this deal.

We got the industry something that was unprecedented. We got five years of trade peace with the United States in terms of lumber. The problem is that a few of the companies thought this was such a great deal that even though they knew there were quotas, and they wanted quotas, they were still going to rush that border and make as much money as they possibly could. Now of course they are asking what happened. What has happened is there is no more quota.

The companies knew that the quota was going to be based on their traditional exports. They knew what the rules were because their industry gave us their suggestions for the rules. By and large we adopted them and with provincial government concurrence.

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Comox—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, when the minister ran on a platform of jobs, he forgot to tell Canadians that they were American jobs at the expense of Canadian jobs.

Many lumber mills, particularly the smaller ones, are laying off staff or closing down altogether because their quotas did not materialize or they came in far below the expectations. A number of companies in B.C., Alberta, Ontario and Quebec are desperate for help.

This government ran on a platform of creating jobs yet in this case thousands of jobs and livelihoods are being lost.

My question for the minister of trade is plain and direct. What is the minister going to do for the families that he has now put out of work?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

This government, Mr. Speaker, has put nobody out of work. This government has bent over backward to try to make sure that the system which the industry wanted-the industry wanted this protection-is fair and balanced. We have talked with all 600 of those companies that are getting lumber quotas to make sure that we are in fact fair.

If some of them have gone overboard and have used their quota, we are still providing a quota bank to help them in terms of bridging over this period of time so that they can keep the jobs. We also know they can go ahead at the existing prices and even pay these fees which are staying in Canada. They can pay the $100 fee and the $50 fee and still make some money on it.

Canada Information Office

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

In the last supplementary estimates, we learned that the Canada Information Office has a funding budget of $4.9 million, out of its total $20 million budget.

Can the Minister of Canadian Heritage give us the criteria which the Canada Information Office will use to allocate its funding?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, for information on the CIO, I would invite the hon. member across the way to start by going to the World Wide Web site on the Internet, where she will find everything there is available, not only on InfoCan, but also on other components of the department, whose mandate it is to focus on Canadian identity throughout the country.