House of Commons Hansard #23 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was labour.

Topics

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Ringuette-Maltais)

In my opinion the nays have it.

The division on the motion stands deferred.

We will now proceed to Group No. 3, Motion No. 5.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Reform

Daphne Jennings Reform Mission—Coquitlam, BC

moved:

Motion No. 5

That Bill C-11 be amended by adding after line 29, on page 10, the following new Clause:

"32.1 The Minister shall cause to be laid before each House of Parliament, not later than the fifth sitting day of that House after January 31 next following the end of each fiscal year, a report showing the operations of the Department of Human Resources Development for that fiscal year."

Madam Speaker, this amendment would require the Minister of Human Resources Development to table an annual report in the House.

Bill C-11 as s presented does not require an annual report to be made from the department. I am concerned that this may be just another way for the government to withhold information from the House of Commons and the people of Canada.

I believe it should be mandatory for all government departments to publish annual reports, and for the purpose of accountability they should be placed before Parliament.

As part of the new program review the federal government is changing the production of the estimates. It suggests that in a few years it will make the estimates more user friendly and that more useful and practical information will be included in the estimates. The government suggests that annual reports are so general that they border on being useless.

Every bill which has been introduced to create a new department has been deleted. The government has deleted the requirement for the production of departmental annual reports. Our amendment would require the government to continue producing annual reports for that department.

We are sceptical of the process for improving the estimates. At minimum, until such improvements have been made, annual reports should be continued. Until the estimates are improved, the lack of annual reports will cause the Canadian public to be in a position to receive less information from government.

We all know about the red book promises which said there would be more open government. This is open government? No more annual reports is open government? I do not think so.

Reform exists to change the government. Liberals have an opportunity to demonstrate to Canadians they are willing to open up government to allow Canadians greater access to all information about how it operates. It should not be a secret. What is the government trying to hide?

It is taxpayer money that the Liberals are spending. Canadians should know how and where their money is going. The government, by opposing our amendment, will prove to Canadians that it does not care about accountability or openness. What is it trying to hide? Again there seems to be something fishy here.

Is this just another way for the Liberals to hide their dismal failure on the deficit fight? They will not make public or even produce an annual report for this department.

This department is huge. Canadians, thanks to the Liberals, will not be able to keep track of the developments. Sure, the government says the estimates will be improved, but it said it would scrap the GST, so why should we believe it now?

Is this a case of what we do not know will not hurt us? Maybe that is why the government did not mention the debt in the budget speech. Ignore it and it will go away. The Liberals should talk about it. They should admit that they have been responsible for the growth in the debt since 1968 and honestly attack the debt problem. We are seeing nothing.

I insist we need an annual account of this department. I believe with the inclusion of the amendments the Reform Party suggested Bill C-11 will be a much better bill. The amendments will make the department more forward in its approach to problems and more accountable to Parliament.

Science And TechnologyStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Rose-Marie Ur Liberal Lambton—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Speaker, excellence in the areas of science, technology and mathematics is essential to building and sustaining a more innovative Canadian economy. Canada's future depends on our ability to show innovative technology leadership.

Both the speech from the throne and the March 6 budget highlighted the importance of establishing guiding principles to improve the effectiveness and focus of the federal science and technology effort.

I believe Canada will guarantee its success in these areas if we ensure that our children are taught the skills they will need to meet the challenges.

Last month the Prime Minister announced the winners of the 1995 Prime Minister's Awards for Teaching Excellence in Science, Technology and Mathematics. The awards recognize elementary and secondary school teachers who have had a major impact on their students in these areas.

I take this opportunity to salute one of the winners from my riding of Lambton-Middlesex, Ms. Carol Browne, a grade 1 teacher at Metcalfe Central School.

Light StationsStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Jack Frazer Reform Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, in automating B.C. light stations the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans is reducing marine safety on the west coast.

The B.C. coastline has long deep fiords, turbulent, dangerous waters and extensive uninhabited areas. It is unique and studies of other coastlines do not necessarily apply to B.C.

A constant flow of cruise ships, freighters, ferries, commercial and sports fishermen, tourists and pleasure boats passes through the inside passage between west coast islands and mainland B.C. More than 15,000 tankers passed through B.C. waters in 1995.

Human staff provide accurate and timely marine aviation weather reports and can observe coastal activity, while automated stations can only transmit a mechanically derived narrower range of data. Should the system malfunction or fail, which has already happened, we court loss of life and/or ecological disasters.

Spending reductions are important but unjustified when they come at the expense of available safety measures on our waterways. In time of danger there is no substitute for a human operated lighthouse.

Ryerson Polytechnic UniversityStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Graham Liberal Rosedale, ON

Mr. Speaker, today in my riding of Rosedale in Toronto, Ryerson Polytechnic University is celebrating the completion of an infrastructure project which will create 47 person years of employment.

Ryerson is a special institution of learning which offers a unique educational experience to its students. It is a tremendous asset to the city of Toronto and to the country at large.

The ceremony taking place today also illustrates how the infrastructure program initiated by the government has enabled a wide range of institutions to create or upgrade needed facilities. The program which has been criticized by some for being a bricks and mortar program has proven to be much more than that. This particular example shows how the program contributes in a meaningful way to the education of the citizens of this country. The

program is also a concrete example of the constructive co-operation that occurs between the federal and provincial governments.

I extend my heartfelt congratulations to President Lajeunesse and to the entire university community of Ryerson for the successful completion of this important program.

Elimination Of Violence Against WomenStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Bonin Liberal Nickel Belt, ON

Mr. Speaker, this morning, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Canadian Heritage announced, together with heads of Canadian broadcasting corporations, the launch of a national campaign against violence under the theme "Violence, You Can Make a Difference".

This campaign will last throughout the year and emphasize violence against women and children. This multimedia project is aimed at making people aware of the impact of violence on viewers, and of the means available to us to put an end to it.

This project was made possible thanks to the cooperation of a number of federal departments, radio and television networks, community organisations, and Cossette Communication-Marketing. We are pleased to be part of this important initiative, and we urge people to join us in this vast operation to stamp out violence.

CubaStatements By Members

2 p.m.

NDP

Svend Robinson NDP Burnaby—Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, recently the group Pastors for Peace attempted to transport humanitarian aid, namely medical supplies, computers and modems from Canada to Cuba via the United States. The computers were for a humanitarian Cuban medical project, INFOMED.

Last month these goods were seized by U.S. law enforcement personnel using totally unacceptable force under a U.S. law banning trading with the enemy. Five members of Pastors for Peace have been fasting for life since February 21, including Canadian Brian Rohatyn to protest this outrageous U.S. thuggery.

I call on our foreign minister to end his silence and demand the release of these Canadian donated medical supplies, to strongly condemn the illegal and immoral U.S. blockade of Cuba and the illegal Helms-Burton Bill.

The people of Canada must stand in solidarity with the people of Cuba at this very difficult time.

Aéroports De Montréal (Adm)Statements By Members

2 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Mercier Bloc Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC

Mr. Speaker, the transport minister stated in this House that the problems of Montreal airports were not his concern since their management had been transferred to ADM. This is an easy answer to avoid getting involved.

The minister is abdicating his political responsibilities, hiding behind a management agreement he himself negotiated. However, the difficulties faced by Montreal airports are, to a large extent, due to the bad decisions Ottawa has been making on this issue since the 1970s.

In Canada, air transportation comes under federal jurisdiction. Consequently, it is this the government which negotiated and signed the present lease with ADM, thereby giving it certain responsibilities. The government must ask ADM to hold real consultations before making any decision.

Burlington YouthStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Paddy Torsney Liberal Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise in recognition of Burlington youth. Our government has placed a great deal of importance on demonstrating our confidence in Canada and Canadians, especially young Canadians.

In the riding of Burlington I have had the honour of presenting eight graduating secondary students with an award which recognizes their outstanding contribution to their school, to our community and to Canada.

The recipients of the Paddy Torsney, M.P. Citizenship Award last fall were: Stephen Chiu, Lisa Dawn Moody, Angela Minnett, Danielle Buick, Jessica Kristina Hodgson, James Roberts, Jennifer Craig and Aimmie Halchuk.

Colleagues, please join me in congratulating these fine young Canadians. They are up to the challenge of our future. They are our future.

JusticeStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Reform

Jack Ramsay Reform Crowfoot, AB

Mr. Speaker, much to the dismay of the Robert family of North Bay, Ontario, the Minister of Justice appointed Mr. John Desotti to the Ontario bench. The minister did so despite the fact that Mr. Desotti was still under review by the Law Society of Upper Canada.

Mr. Reginald Robert died one month before his three year old complaint against John Desotti was to be resolved by the law

society. Just 17 days before his wife, Mrs. Valerie Robert, a senior citizen was to conclude this case on behalf of her late husband, the justice minister threw a cloak of immunity over John Desotti. This newly appointed judge was removed from the jurisdiction of the law society and moved beyond the reach of the Robert family.

What did the justice minister have to say about this reprehensible abuse of his power? "If Mrs. Robert doesn't like it, take Desotti to court", was his reply. It is time the Prime Minister stepped in and set things right for the Robert family and dealt with the justice minister who has run roughshod over the rights of a senior citizen of this country.

Tran Trieu QuanStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Bloc

Christiane Gagnon Bloc Québec, QC

Mr. Speaker, Tran Trieu Quan was unjustly condemned to life imprisonment by a Vietnamese court which heard his case in less than a day. However, the Interpol investigation proved that Mr. Quan fell victim to a fraud committed by his client, Excel Cotton International. The Canadian government recognized that the Vietnamese government was making a scapegoat of Mr. Quan.

On March 11, Quebec municipal authorities unanimously adopted a motion stating that the Liberal Party had promised, in the red book, to use its foreign aid policy to protect human rights abroad, and requesting that the Canadian government immediately suspend all financial, cultural and social assistance to Vietnam, until Mr. Quan is released and repatriated.

The Bloc Quebecois supports the resolution of the City of Quebec and asks the government to take action.

Automobile LeasingStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville—Milton, ON

Mr. Speaker, the automotive industry is of critical importance to the Canadian economy. One component of that industry, the car dealers, are feeling threatened today. On average, 40 per cent of their business is based on leasing and this percentage is increasing every year.

Now the chartered banks want our approval for their entry into the lucrative car leasing business. I believe that if we permit the banks to enter we would risk jeopardizing the stability and success of the dealership network in Canada. In the long run, competition would be reduced and thousands of jobs might be lost.

I strongly urge the Secretary of State for Financial Institutions to help those who sell and lease cars by keeping the banks out of the automotive leasing business.

Nisga'A Land ClaimsStatements By Members

March 28th, 1996 / 2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Anna Terrana Liberal Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, on March 22 we made history in B.C. An agreement in principle with the Nisga'a people was signed on their land, the Nass Valley, by Chief Joe Gosnell, Minister John Cashore, and the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

It was a great event for all British Columbians and for those invited participants who attended. I was there. There was a full house. Unfortunately for some reason the member of Parliament for Skeena chose to miss the occasion.

It took the Nisga'a over 20 years of negotiations to reach an agreement. It took hours and weeks of work and talks to arrive at the signing of the agreement. It took 129 years to complete the process.

Mr. Speaker, do you not think we should all celebrate for making a historic wrong right through an honourable process? To call this apartheid, as some of my colleagues in the Reform Party are doing, does not recognize the reality that apartheid was not achieved through negotiation but by decree.

I know there are some concerns on both sides, but let us be proud of this achievement. Let us all work together as equals.

Lincoln Fabrics Ltd.Statements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Walt Lastewka Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to inform the House on the quality initiatives of Lincoln Fabrics Ltd., an SME in my riding of St. Catharines.

Lincoln Fabrics are weavers of international fabrics, broad woven fabric mills, man-made fibre automotive trimmings, apparel findings and related products. Lincoln Fabrics is a supplier to many multinationals and the Government of Canada.

I congratulate Lincoln Fabrics on its achievement of the quality awards, QS-9000 and ISO-9002. It is the first fabrics supplier of this type in North America to achieve these high levels of quality manufacturing and quality management.

Congratulations to Lincoln Fabrics president David Howes, manufacturing vice-president Michael Loney and all the employees on a job well done.

Seizure Of Computer Equipmentdestined For CubaStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Bloc

Maud Debien Bloc Laval East, QC

Mr. Speaker, on January 31 and February 17, American customs officers seized computer equipment en route to Cuba. It was being sent to Cuban hospitals under a World Health Organization program.

Furthermore, on March 21, a Canadian government representative in San Diego said he had no intention of intervening to have the equipment released. Also, for more than 36 days now, four members of Pastors for Peace and a Canadian driver have been on a hunger strike to have the material returned.

What is the foreign affairs minister waiting for before he will take a hand in the defence of humanitarian assistance organizations helping Cuba, as he did yesterday in Washington for Canadian companies engaging in trade with that country? This is just as hard to understand as it is hard to know where human compassion has gone within this government.

SomaliaStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Reform

Bob Ringma Reform Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Mr. Speaker, the shredding of Somalia documents by officers at national defence is further evidence of cover-up but this is only the latest incident to plague the defence minister.

February: The minister describes his chief of staff's pronouncement that Canada is not prepared to fight as "consistent with government policy".

January: Somalia investigator has files stolen and is threatened with action for charging that generals who impeded the investigation acted inappropriately. Somalia commission expresses concern that DND lawyers were intimidating potential witnesses.

April 1995: Public affairs director general breaks the minister's gag order to disparage a confidential autopsy report.

March 1995: The minister replaces the Somalia commissioner Anne Doyle because of conflict of interest charges saying he should have been better informed.

January 1995: Video shows airborne soldiers making racist remarks to Somalis and engaging in hazing rituals. The defence minister ignores advice from officials and disbands the regiment in an act of political expediency.

Mirabel International AirportStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Mr. Speaker, at a time when calls for solidarity and cohesion are heard on the issue of Montreal airports, the Bloc Quebecois is displaying its political expediency and adding to the confusion about the future of Mirabel.

Yesterday, the Leader of the Opposition once again displayed his poor knowledge of political issues in Quebec when he referred to, and I quote: "the more recent decision to build Mirabel airport, which did considerable harm to Montreal's air traffic".

How can the member for Roberval condemn Mirabel in such a way, claiming that it has harmed Montreal's economy, when members from his own caucus have publicly expressed themselves in favour of the survival of Mirabel airport? Are we to understand from the Bloc leader's remarks that, as usual, the statement he made yesterday is simply a way to pave the way to the decision his leader, Lucien Bouchard, is preparing to announce?

ViolenceStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Albina Guarnieri Liberal Mississauga East, ON

Mr. Speaker, violence against women and children affects all of us in our communities and as a country. I am pleased that the federal government continues to take positive steps to prevent violence, working with other sectors of society who are active partners in this effort.

The Canadian Association of Broadcasters deserves special congratulations for its launch of a new national campaign aptly named "Violence-You Can Make a Difference". Through co-operation between private broadcasters and several government departments, the message will reach every community across the country.

In the Toronto Star a recent series featuring family violence depicting real life tragedies accentuates the importance of this issue in all its aspects.

I hope these insights will encourage all Canadians to become part of a national effort to stop violence before it happens.

Land MinesStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Reform

Keith Martin Reform Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Mr. Speaker, earlier today I rose to reintroduce my private members' bill calling for a ban on the import, export and production of land mines and anti-personnel devices in Canada. The purpose of the bill is for Canada to take a leadership role in banning these heinous devices which have no place in modern warfare.

This was supported today by the International Committee of the Red Cross which released a study that examined the military use and effectiveness of anti-personnel mines. This document shatters the idea that mines are effective in military operations and concludes that the limited military utility of mines is far outweighed by the appalling humanitarian consequences of their use in actual conflicts. I congratulate the ICRC on its study.

I invite all members in the House to join with me in supporting my private members' bill which calls for a ban on these heinous devices.

Canadian Armed ForcesOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, when we questioned the government on May 12, 1995, on the events in Somalia, the Minister of Defence stated as follows: "This government wants to make sure that all of the troubling accusations surrounding the Canadian forces deployment to Somalia are brought to light. This government has nothing to hide. This government wants the truth". Now, less than a year later, the information commissioner informs us that certain military officers deliberately falsified or eliminated information concerning this affair.

My question, a very simple one, is directed to the Minister of National Defence. What we want to know is: Who are the DND personnel who falsified documents, what are their ranks, under whose orders were they operating, and what sanctions were imposed for these actions?

Canadian Armed ForcesOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Don Valley East Ontario

Liberal

David Collenette LiberalMinister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Speaker, as I said yesterday, the facts in Mr. Grace's letter parallel the facts that have been raised by a military police investigation. Certainly we view these allegations with severity.

In fact it was the departmental officials, the deputy minister and the former chief of defence staff who alerted Mr. Grace, the information commissioner, to this problem. It was the department that did it once it found out about these irregularities.

We are certainly concerned with what he has found out in his letter, but given the fact there is a military police investigation with all it entails, and given that the facts in the military police investigation are consistent with those outlined in Mr. Grace's letter, it would be very wrong for me, in case I were to prejudice the jurisdiction and the legal proceedings of any individuals, to answer the hon. member's question as he has posed it.

Canadian Armed ForcesOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, it is always like pulling teeth to get information in this Parliament on anything involving the armed forces. We would really like to see evidence from the government, once in a while, that it is in charge.

Now that we know documents have been falsified by Canadian army personnel to cover up the truth, what credibility can we give to the 450,000 pages of documents DND provided to the Somalia commission? What credibility indeed?

Canadian Armed ForcesOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Don Valley East Ontario

Liberal

David Collenette LiberalMinister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I can give you and members of the House the assurance that the Department of National Defence has and will do everything in its power to make sure that every single document relevant to the inquiry is handed over to the inquiry.

There is a bit of an information overflow because there are tens of thousands of pages of such documents. It has caused difficulty for the department in collating them and getting them to the commission. It has caused difficulty for the commission, but we are working with the commission to surmount these obstacles.

The hon. member has talked about not getting information out of the department of defence and being dissatisfied with my previous answer. This government is concerned with the fundamental principles of justice and we have to be concerned that none of those principles of justice are transgressed with respect to any individuals who may be involved in this matter.

Canadian Armed ForcesOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, I understand the government is concerned, but so are we all when the government's concerns have no effect on what is going on in the armed forces. The minister ought to be aware of that.

We want to know, because it is the public which pays for the Canadian Armed Forces, whether extremely reprehensible actions have taken place, as this is a very serious matter.

Does the Prime Minister not realize that there is a problem of credibility, the credibility of his government even, when the Minister of Defence refuses systematically to reveal any information whatsoever concerning events of this gravity, particularly when one considers that absolutely every time we have raised any question here in the House concerning DND we have just about had to hold a parliamentary inquiry to get things moving? The minister is always talking about his serious concerns, but never does

anything concrete about those concerns. There are never any real steps taken to remedy matters.