Debates of May 30th, 1996

Supply

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I am appalled at their actions sometimes.

Those are just a couple of points which really make it clear, and it should be clear to Canadians, that the government is not serious about doing anything with regard to making our homes and streets safer. The government is not serious about punishing offenders. It is not serious about making those offenders more productive when they are released. It is absolutely astounding.

Probably for the most part the majority of members on that side of the House have never been inside a prison.

[Mary Clancy, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Probably not.

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

It is certainly a learning experience.

[Jean Augustine, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

How long did you spend there?

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

A member across the way just asked how long I have spent in the prison system. I have spent the last two and one-half years visiting the majority of this country's prisons. I invite members on the other side of the House to do the same.

A recent study done by the Fraser Institute identified some economic factors revolving around crime, public safety and security. It put together a list on the costs of crime which included victimization, policing and private security, court and legal proceedings, corrections and shattered lives. The total costs incorporated in the list I have just stated are estimated to be $37 billion

annually. That is almost one-third of the annual budget. The costs of the social impact of crime are almost one-third of the annual budget. The Liberal government has not done anything to make our streets and homes safer. It is another broken promise.

[Bob Nault, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Madam Speaker, in his remarks the member made suggestions about two systems of law and that in certain parts of the country alcohol and firearms are being smuggled in. Those are serious allegations.

The member has some background in the legal system and in law enforcement. I would be interested in knowing whether he has proof of these allegations. If he does, why has he not brought it forward or is it just more Reform rhetoric, taking it to the extreme? There is some smuggling, which is probably true but to make it sound like it is coming in by the truckload to Cornwall, I think is a little far fetched.

Would the member tell us where he is getting his statistics and whether there is any validity to them? Could he also tell us which communities he is referring to? He is being somewhat careful with his wording. My understanding is that he is referring to aboriginal communities. If that is right, then why not come out and say so?

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Madam Speaker, I will be pleased to relate any information which reflects on certain communities in the country. One of course is the Cornwall area.

If the member will recall, approximately six months ago a police report, a joint forces report, was presented to Parliament. It reflected the very point that alcohol, cigarettes and other contraband are being smuggled through those areas. Guns were also included in the list. I am not speaking out of school and I am not speaking off the top of my hat. It was in the police report. There have also been references to such in the news media from time to time. If the member so desires, I can pick up those press releases for him.

Am I referring to a particular group? In this case the member mentioned aboriginal people. Let me put it this way. I am referring to organized criminals. It is a well-known fact that Cornwall is a gravitation point for organized criminals of all stripes because it happens to be a point of entry for contraband.

My concern is with the effects of organized crime and the influence of organized criminals in those regions. That is one and I could reflect on others if the member so desires.

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member chastised the government for its failure to live up to what he says are its promises when he knows there is a list of enactments the House has dealt with concerning law enforcement issues, some of which he has supported and some of which he has opposed. All have been brought before the House in accordance with the promises made in the red book.

I am surprised that with a motion of this kind that does not mention law and order issues he would bring this up. This is one of the areas in which the government has been most active. It has dealt with changes in the criminal law of the country. We have changes in the criminal law itself. We have had changes in the Corrections and Conditional Release Act and so on. We have had many legislative changes in respect of young offenders. Ongoing work is being done in committee in this area as we speak.

I am surprised the hon. member raised this subject. Perhaps he did not clear it with his leader. Could the member tell us whether he is still advocating caning as a means of stamping out crime in Canada? If so, perhaps he could tell us the results of the studies he has conducted in this regard and whether he made it to Singapore to get the true facts on this subject.

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands for the question which gives me an opportunity to clarify a lot.

It is important for the House and those watching to recognize there is a concern about punishment in this country. People are concerned that offenders who have committed all kinds of offences, some violent, are not being punished. I have been to many town hall meetings across the country. The member for Kingston and the Islands has spent much of his time in his own community and has not wandered much beyond its borders. There is a concern that criminals are not being punished for the acts they commit. The matter of corporal punishment has come forward several times.

At no time have I ever advocated corporal punishment. At no time have I ever advocated caning, but I have suggested we study the issue of corporal punishment. That matter has only lately been removed from the Criminal Code.

The member has given me a book on Singapore and the corporal punishment issue there. He is obviously supportive of it because the book is supportive of it. I suggest the member pursue the matter a little further.

[Mary Clancy, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Madam Speaker, I really do not want to change the subject but I would like to get back to the topic. I read the resolution put forward by the hon. member from the third party. The resolution shows the hon. member is certainly talking through his riding name, Medicine Hat.

There a number of things that need to be addressed in response to this opposition motion. I will discuss job creation, which the third party seems to think is a broken promise. I will throw a few words around like infrastructure. The number of infrastructure projects in my riding alone has created an incredible number of jobs over the last two years, water and sewer projects, highway projects, bridges, et cetera.

I will not talk about in Halifax the construction of the new Neptune Theatre which is not just creating jobs but a magnificent cultural centre in the Atlantic region. I will not even talk much about St. George's Church, one of the great historic sites in Canada that was nearly destroyed by fire. Through a variety of funding sources, and not an inconsiderable source from the federal government, jobs were created in Halifax in the north end of Halifax where jobs are crucial and necessary. We created very special jobs, bringing back old trades, old arts and crafts and artisanship that we would have lost in Atlantic Canada and in Canada across the board. The department of heritage was really doing something to ensure this part of our heritage was preserved.

I want to talk for a minute when it comes to job creation, in which the member for Winnipeg Transcona is interested, about ACOA in my region, the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, which has created 80,000 jobs in our region in the last two and a half years. Again, the hon. member is clearly talking through his head covering.

The same money from ACOA that created 80,000 jobs has seen over the last two and a half years a two dollar return in taxes in Atlantic Canada for every dollar spent. I ask everyone in this House, is that value for money? I'll say it is. Is that good investment? I'll say it is. Is that keeping our promises in Atlantic Canada? I'll say it is.

I have two words for hon. members across the way about safe streets, gun control. I could not be happier that I was a part of the party and the government that saw that law passed to increase the safety of Canadians on our streets and on our country roads.

[An hon. member]

Why is crime up?

[Mary Clancy, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

I remember on television somebody asking who will you believe, me or your own two eyes? The words are, crime is not up in Canada, it is down.

That does not fit their agenda. They do not like it. It only happens to be the truth. To get back to my mutton, what have we done on safe streets? We passed the hate crime legislation, which they did not support. We passed amendments to the Young Offenders Act, and the justice committee as we speak is going around the country consulting with Canadians to see how we can better-

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

We are home.

[Mary Clancy, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Yes, I know. I was being alliterative. I know the hon. member opposite and other members of the justice committee will soon be travelling again, listening to and consulting with Canadians on further amendments to make the Young Offenders Act a better act and to ensure we make the kinds of interventions that stop young people before we lose them entirely.

Crime overall is decreasing in Canada, but that is not a good news agenda our colleagues in the third party want to hear about. When it comes to things they note in this unusual and rather silly motion, I and a lot of other Canadians are getting a little tired of this. We have a government in which ministers are responsible to the country, who consult with the country, who listen to Canadians and who respond. They even respond to some of the unusual and bizarre questions put forward by the third party. Let us talk about integrity in government. Let us talk about Sheila Copps.

The promise that was made in the red book was kept. I am tired of the members opposite and their bad news agenda. I am tired of sanctimony. I am tired of judgmental attitudes and a meanspirited reaction to any and all people who do not share their narrow, rigid, blinkered view of this country and its people.

Did Sheila Copps go far during her campaign? Yes, she did. Did she go further than the red book promised? It can be suggested she went too far. The hon. member over there called her toast. I suggest the hon. member wait until the day after the byelection. We will see who is toasted the day after the byelection.

Those of us who are proud to call Sheila colleague know that her energy, her commitment and her sheer exuberance can sometimes cause her to say and do things that may be over the top for the duller of wit and slower of eye that sometime sit in the House. I say God bless Sheila. God bless her fearlessness. Without her the country would be without a powerful, articular and courageous advocate.

With regard to her action in the wake of her own private promise, perhaps those in the Reform Party do things without consulting their executives, their colleagues and their families. Sheila made her decision, the correct one, after consulting and informing those people who were, are and will be in future part of her team. She did it right. She marched to her own drummer. She said she would resign. Because she could not keep the promise she made, she resigned. She never said she would not reoffer, because the people of Hamilton deserve and have a right to the best representative they have ever had and every could have.

To the member for Medicine Hat, the author of this funny little motion, I will wager anything he would care to wager, name it, that Sheila Copps with her great heart, with her great spirit, with her courage, her determination, most particularly with her horror of bigotry, with her horror of racism, with her horror of injustice, will back in the House. She will shine in the House when the third party

is a dusty footnote in a dusty textbook on a forgotten bookshelf. I leave my wager open to the hon. member for Medicine Hat.

[The Speaker]

It being 2 p.m., we will now have Statements by Members and we will take up this very interesting debate after question period.

Student Connections

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about an important measure the government has taken, a concrete measure to create jobs.

Industry Canada together with Dalhousie University and the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada has begun the student connection program. This program will send out 2,000 senior university students across the country to introduce small and medium size businesses and voluntary organizations to the Internet. They will train people in middle and upper management in these businesses to use the Internet to support their own decision making processes. They will be taught how to use Internet sites like Strategis, the largest Canadian source of information on business on the information highway.

All Canadians are concerned about jobs, especially the young. This program is aimed not only at helping business use information technology but at creating jobs for young people, a very worthwhile goal.

Since we took office as a government the economy has created 636,000 new jobs in Canada. The student connection program alone will directly create 2,000 work term jobs.

Northern Quebec Cross Country Trek

[Bernard Deshaies, Bloc, Abitibi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Fernand Trahan, a businessman from my riding, just finished crossing Quebec's northern region from west to east, covering 4,000 kilometres alone on his snowmobile.

Mr. Trahan, who started his expedition in February and recently made it back to Val-d'Or told us: "It was hard, but I always believed I would succeed".

Mr. Trahan deserves the congratulations of this House for his achievement, having survived the cold, blizzard conditions and wolves. He also deserves our admiration for his courage and his desire to surpass himself.

His trip did not go unnoticed among Inuit people. They welcomed him and he had the pleasant surprise of being able to speak to them in French, which is the second language chosen by many young Inuit.

Regions whose environment and climate are harsh build strong people. Mr. Trahan is one of them and he is a model for all residents of the Abitibi region.

International Banking Centres

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, when the Minister for International Trade was mayor of Toronto, he was angered when the federal government designated Montreal and Vancouver as international banking centres while the city of Toronto was refused this status.

The former mayor called the decision: "Crass politics at its worst. All this adds up to is bad news for Toronto because we have been openly discriminated against by the federal government".

On June 8, 1994 during question period I asked the finance minister when the government would designate Toronto as an international banking centre. His answer: "When we have completed the examination I will be delighted to respond to the member".

Three things are now clear. First, the minister has had nearly two years to examine the question, but this Liberal government is continuing to ignore Ontario.

Second, with the election of a new government in Ontario last year, the province said it is open for business. Why will this Liberal government not insist in getting out that message.

Third, although there are currently 94 Liberal MPs from Ontario, it is obvious that we do not need any more in Ottawa. Voters in Hamilton East have an opportunity to tell the Liberals what they think of ineffective representation.

B.C. Election

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the political culture of Canada took a step back from the prevailing dangerous imbalance when the NDP was re-elected in B.C.

The truth of the matter, to use a hockey analogy, is that the right wing, neo-Conservative, neo-Liberal corporate agenda has been enjoying a breakaway in Canada since 1993. Federal Liberals have been out-torying the Tories, provincial Liberals in B.C. and New Brunswick look and sound like Reformers, Klein and Harris out-reform the Reformers and the provincial Tories in Manitoba quietly outdo them all.

Reformers and Tories talk about unifying the right wing. The right wing is already unified under the Liberals. Liberals, Reformers and Tories, it is all the same agenda.

The B.C. NDP ran against that agenda and won. There is somebody on the blue line and in the net after all. It is the NDP. The NDP is the alternative to the Liberal-Tory-Reform coalition and we will restore political balance to this place and this country come the next election.

The Economy

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canada is among the top 10 countries in the world when it comes to economic competitiveness, according to study of 49 countries released yesterday by the World Economic Forum.

This reinforces the message to foreign investors that Canada is an excellent place to invest. It also offers a positive sign that Canada can expect continued strong economic growth over the next decade.

Among its G-7 partners, Canada is ranked the second most competitive and much of the credit for this goes to this Liberal government. Since assuming office, the government has taken concrete steps to get Canada's fiscal house in order. Inflation and interest rates have remained low and personal taxes have not been raised. Furthermore the deficit is on its way out.

Further, the new national sales tax harmonization initiative will lower costs for businesses and increase the competitiveness of Canadian products and services in the global marketplace. In short, the government is creating the ideal climate for real and sustained economic growth and job creation.

I congratulate the Liberal government on the steady and sure progress it is making in ensuring opportunity for Canadians and Canadian businesses all over the world.

National Unity

[Glen McKinnon, Liberal, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, in 1870 Louis Riel fought for the recognition of a province that was split between the English, French and Metis peoples. Riel understood that while divided in number, these people were united in purpose.

Today we know that it is these feelings of tolerance and compassion that still unite us. This nation has thrived because of differences and not in spite of them. We have been able to draw together, to work together, for the betterment of Canadians and the country as a whole. We have stayed together all these years because it is the desire of Canadians to do so.

As we approach our nation's birthday and our third millennium let us look at our achievements and our growth and let us be proud to be Canadians.

Alliance Of Manufacturersand Exporters Canada

[Morris Bodnar, Liberal, Saskatoon—Dundurn, SK]

Mr. Speaker, 125 years ago the Canadian Manufacturers' Association was founded and 94 years ago, on May 15, 1902, Parliament passed an act incorporating the CMA with objectives to promote Canadian industries and to further the interests of Canadian manufacturers and exporters.

Fifty-three years ago the Canadian Exporters' Association was founded to promote Canadian international business and to advance the interests of exporters.

Today these two historic associations, which have helped to form the fabric of Canadian industry, are merging into a new organization to be known as the Alliance of Manufacturers and Exporters Canada. They bring together their respective strengths and the commitment to support Canadian manufacturers and exporters in a globally competitive economy.

The new alliance will, in due course, request Parliament to amend the original act to formally adopt the new name and to continue to advance the interests of Canadian manufacturers and exporters.

I ask the House to endorse the new association, Alliance of Manufacturers and Exporters Canada, and to extend its best wishes for every success in the future.

Young Offenders Act

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on behalf of the constituents of Okanagan-Similkameen-Merritt in the aftermath of Tuesday's school bus hijacking by two teenagers. The school bus was loaded with young students who were taken on a horrific journey from one part of my constituency to another. It was a relief for all of us that the incident ended without injury or loss of life.

Canadians want the rights of victims placed above the rights of the accused in the justice system, but these two perpetrators are protected by the Young Offenders Act. Their identities are protected. Canadians feel that regardless of age, kidnapping, hijacking and the use of firearms in the commission of an offence should be dealt with in an adult court.

The Liberal government has promised to make significant changes to the Young Offenders Act. So far it has only tinkered

with it. This is pure balderdash. The Liberals promised to get tough on crime and violent crime in particular. The present government has failed to make Canadians' homes, streets and schools safe.

Day Care Services

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, parents, educators and politicians are all concerned by the theme of the Quebec week for day care services: "Give me time to be a child".

This theme reminds parents that they must let their children live their childhood, in spite of life's demands.

As for educators, it reminds them that their daily responsibility is to take care of our children, at a time when they learn values and also how to behave like members of a society. The dedication of the qualified and competent staff in Quebec's day care services must be emphasized.

Finally, the theme reminds politicians that, in these times of budget restrictions, children must remain a priority, and the services provided to them must be exempted from budget cuts.

Canada Trust Scholarship

[John Bryden, Liberal, Hamilton—Wentworth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I know you are always interested in meeting people whose good works and public spirit are an inspiration to all Canadians. I would therefore like to draw your attention to 21 young people visiting the House of Commons today who this morning were honoured by the Governor General as recipients of the Canada Trust Scholarship for Outstanding Community Leadership.

With young people like this, we in this House can rest assured that the future of Canada will be well taken care of.