Debates of Sept. 23rd, 1996

Sydney Tar Ponds

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to first thank the member for the question he poses and for his steadfast co-operation in dealing with what is a very complicated and very troubling situation.

The truth of the matter is that my colleague the health minister and I, together with provincial colleagues and the local member of Parliament had a very successful meeting with residents from Sydney this summer.

One of the things we established is that governments must work with communities rather than simply giving them the solutions at the last minute.

When the Reform Party suggested this is a problem that should be cleaned up in one year's time, that is a very irresponsible statement and a statement that builds and fuels cynicism from the community.

What we have said is that there is a long term solution in finding the viable technology to clean up this mess. We also said, as did the community, that there are some short term immediate steps such as a possible fencing in of the areas. When we were there we had protective foot gear and lo and behold a number of students came in their running shoes. That is an idea that comes from the community.

It is time we level with communities rather than play with them like the Reform Party.

Churchill Falls

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the premier of Newfoundland has just stated that he would rather shut down the hydroelectric power on Churchill Falls than sell it to Quebec at a loss.

This dispute has continued to fester because the federal government has abdicated its responsibility in interprovincial trade.

Will the Prime Minister do the fair thing for the people of Newfoundland and do what he can to ensure the renegotiation of this contract?

[The Speaker]

I am trying get the mesh here with the responsibility of the minister on this question. However, I saw the hon. minister getting to her feet and if she wishes to answer this question, I will permit it.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, as undoubtedly the hon. member knows, there is a contract in place between the Governments of Newfoundland and Quebec. This is a contract dispute that has been ongoing for some time. The federal government is not a party to that contract. Therefore it would be singularly inappropriate for the federal government to interfere in what we hope is the successful resolution of points of disagreement between the two contracting parties.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member and the Prime Minister do not seem to find it inappropriate to intervene when it comes to rerouting the Sable gas resource through to Quebec. All of a sudden it is inappropriate in this case. Why does the Prime Minister refuse to step in and prevent Hydro Quebec from picking Newfoundlanders' pockets to the tune of $1 billion every year?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot let the comment made by the hon. member in her question go unchallenged.

The Prime Minister on behalf of the government has made it very plain that in relation to the Sable Island gas project normal regulatory processes will be followed and whether and when that project goes ahead will be dependent on market conditions.

I want to clarify the record. The government is being quite consistent. In relation to Newfoundland and the Government of Quebec there is a contract in place between those two parties. It is for those two parties to negotiate any disagreements.

The Cbc

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

Some time ago, the Minister of Canadian Heritage criticized the CBC for not doing enough, in her view, to promote Canadian unity.

Are we to understand that the budget cuts imposed on the CBC, which incidentally are deeper than those made in other government operations, are a reflection of the government's discontent and anger with the CBC for apparently not doing enough to promote Canadian unity?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, if we used the same logic as the hon. member, we would have to conclude that Ms. Beaudoin does not support Télé-Québec.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I wish the Minister of Canadian Heritage would change her tune, let Quebec deal with Quebec problems and focus on managing the affairs of the country. That should be plenty.

Does the Minister of Canadian Heritage not realize that, had she not wasted $45 million on all kinds of gadgets to promote national unity and sunk $100 million into a broadcast fund she wants control over, the $127 million in funding she just took away from the CBC could have been maintained? How much more does the minister plan to divert from cultural institutions just for her propaganda purposes?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Canadian Heritage]

First of all, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's claim that the cuts imposed on the CBC are deeper than those to government operations in general is simply not true. The CBC cuts amount to 23 per cent, which is less than the cuts sustained by individual government departments.

That said, the Bloc Quebecois criticized time and time again the broadcast fund. The funny thing is that this fund has received the support of Rock Demers, Les Productions La Fête, Éliane Doré of Ciné Gestion Inc., Carmen Bourassa of Téléfiction Inc., Charles Bélanger, president of the CFCF broadcasting group, Louise Baillargeon of the APFTQ, and Christiane Gagné, to name a few.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, speaking of the CBC, the Reform Party has a very clear vision of a publicly funded CBC radio and a privately funded or a privatized CBC television. The massive cuts this minister undertook at the CBC last week shows she has absolutely no vision for the future of the CBC. That lack of vision has created across the board cuts that threaten both radio and television.

Will she admit to the House that she again has broken a Liberal election promise with respect to the CBC funding?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party says the cuts took place last week. The cuts were announced last February and amounted to a total cut to the corporation of approximately 23 per cent, something which certainly is going to be very difficult for the CBC to carry out. It is something that I believe, with the creativity of the management and the board of the CBC, will certainly be within their power to carry out.

To suggest that the minister would carry out the cuts would indeed be a gross abrogation of the arm's length policy which must de facto exist to protect the integrity of the CBC.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, speaking of integrity, I really wonder why this minister not only at the CBC but with national parks, indeed throughout the heritage department, announced cuts way back in February and has a sword of Damocles over thousands of people in the employ of the CBC and national parks throughout the entire department. The reality is there was an election promise of funding.

Was the $400 million cut an example of a Liberal double cross or just the minister's incompetence and lack of commitment?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, to clarify Mr. Martin's budget in February, the cut was $100-

[The Speaker]

I know the Deputy Prime Minister would not want to use one of our members' names.

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Hamilton East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the cuts the member refers to is $127 million. The fact is that the federal government continues to support the CBC directly and indirectly to the tune of $875 million per year.

If someone actually took a page out of the Reform Party's book and took the deficit to zero in three years, which was its proposal, there would be no CBC.

Fisheries

[Harold Culbert, Liberal, Carleton—Charlotte, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

Reports of sightings of increased cod stocks off the Atlantic coast are causing great and positive excitement in Atlantic Canada. Can the minister tell the House today exactly what the current scientific evidence and findings are? Will these new findings provide for our cod fishery next year?

[Fred Mifflin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, to best respond to that question I can tell the House the results of the scientific and the sentinel surveys this year compared to last year. A number of things were determined.

Sentinel survey is actually done by fishermen in just over 100 sites around Newfoundland, Labrador and the gulf. There are a number of things this year compared with last year. First of all, the catch rates were better. In the sentinel survey in some cases the catch was double to 25 times greater than last year. The fish are larger and the size range is greater.

Scientists have indicated that the decline has ceased. The environment is better for the fish and the recruitment has indeed begun, although very slowly.

I have a caution. These sentinel surveys are controlled sites. They are inshore and there is no competition. We will be looking at some possible tests offshore in the near future.

The fisheries resource conservation council has done consultations in Newfoundland, Labrador and Atlantic Canada. It will be coming forward in October with a recommendation to me.

For the time being, cautious optimism.

The Irving Whale

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment.

The operation carried out this summer to raise the Irving Whale will cost taxpayers in Quebec and Canada over $31 million.

At a time when the federal government is slashing health care, education and unemployment insurance, is it not absurd to take $31 million out of taxpayers' pockets to clean up the damage done by the multi-billion-dollar Irving corporation and, to add insult to injury, to give them back the Irving Whale, which they are thinking of using again? Will the Liberal government make Irving pay for the operation, yes or no?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her question.

It has to be understood that there was overwhelming support, as I mentioned to her last week, both from Îles-de-la-Madeleine as well as from residents of P.E.I., to get this environmental ticking bomb up and out safely from the bottom of the ocean, which is exactly what happened this summer.

The Irvings have agreed, which they did not do last year, to destroy the PCB contaminated fuel. This can cost anywhere between $2 million and $10 million. That will be absorbed completely by the Irving company.

The Government of Canada and I support very strongly the polluter pay principle. That is why, once all the bills are in, estimated at between $30 million and $35 million, we will make an application to the oil pollution fund. In that way we can recoup on behalf of the taxpayers every single last penny of that $35 million.

Goods And Services Tax

[Daphne Jennings, Reform, Mission—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the finance minister or in his absence for his representative.

I remind the House that in the October 1993 campaign the Deputy Prime Minister said: "Food isn't subject to GST because it's a necessity and so are books". A year earlier the government whip stated: "GST on reading material is a bad policy and undemocratic. It creates more unemployment".

Have these members forgotten they made these statements and that Liberal policy during the campaign affirms a tax free status on reading material?

When is the government going to live up to its election promise and remove the tax on reading?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, the question of the tax base is an important one. The member of the Reform Party should be aware of what her party has said.

The Reform Party has said that it would include a policy that would tax food and drugs, which would make the GST more effective. That is the policy of the Reform Party.

Now the hon. member has complaints about the tax on books. Where would the money come to replace those funds? That is the question I have for the Reform Party.

Canada Pension Plan

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. It concerns the attempt by the Liberal government to push through a package of cuts to the Canada pension plan benefits, including cuts to people with disabilities, by early October.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister listen to New Democrats, including the governments of British Columbia and Saskatchewan, who are calling on Liberals to back off, take the time to consult seriously, study more carefully the impact of their regressive proposals and look at progressive changes to the CPP instead of hitting the most vulnerable beneficiaries of the system?

[Bob Nault, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the short answer to that is yes, we will continue to consult.

When we are done consulting we will have the best program we possibly can within the financial means of all the governments, both provincial and federal.

Income Taxes

[Stan Dromisky, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Atikokan, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

On August 22, a Globe and Mail article alleged that the Liberals had increased the personal tax burden by more than $12 billion in just three years.

Can the minister tell Canadians why he has vehemently claimed that personal taxes have not increased when it was reported that the government has gouged Canadians for $12 billion?