Debates of Sept. 24th, 1996

Shearwater Development Corporation

[Ron MacDonald, Liberal, Dartmouth, NS]

Mr. Speaker, 26 months ago the Shearwater Base Adjustment Committee was formed to mitigate the loss of over 700 jobs at CFB Shearwater in the riding of Dartmouth as a result of the downsizing announced in the 1994 budget.

The committee was given only $2 million, an amount significantly less than other bases which lost fewer jobs. Nevertheless the committee members have soldiered on, believing that once the transfer of national defence property occurs, Shearwater can become the premier intermodal site on the eastern seaboard of North America.

For two years, the chairman of the Shearwater Development Corporation has been stymied in his attempts to conclude the transfer of DND property. While I recognize there may have been some explainable delays, the fact remains that not on centimetre of DND property has been transferred to the Shearwater Development Corporation.

This situation is completely unacceptable to me and the people of Dartmouth. The potential inherent in the site must not be lost to departmental infighting on the part of some senior bureaucrats.

Therefore I ask my colleague, the Minister of National Defence, to become personally involved in this effort to clear this interdepartmental logjam so that the SDC can get on with the job of creating jobs for Nova Scotia.

Information Highway

[Jean Augustine, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the constituents of Etobicoke-Lakeshore are great users of the information highway and are increasingly using this new technology to position themselves in the global economy.

In order to build a strong information society, the government intends to use the information highway to promote job creation and to reinforce Canadian identity while ensuring universal access at a reasonable cost.

Initiatives such as Community Access and SchoolNet will bring Internet access to rural areas, schools and libraries across Canada, legislation will be developed to protect Canadians' right to privacy and a national access strategy is planned for 1998.

As a member of our caucus information technology task force, I look forward to exploring the impact of new information technology on our citizens and government.

Asbestos

[Jean-Guy Chrétien, Bloc, Frontenac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on July 3 this year, France announced a ban on the use of chrysotile asbestos on French territory.

Faced with this situation, the Quebec government has prepared a very specific action plan. The strategy includes developing counter-expertise and organizing an international seminar on the safe use of asbestos.

However, the federal government has yet to do anything concrete to save 2,000 jobs directly connected with the industry in my region, aside from the Prime Minister's personal commitment to speak to President Chirac.

Only three months remain before the French ban takes effect. This government's failure to act is trying the patience of the people of Frontenac. The Prime Minister should rally to the Quebec government's action plan and invest the funds necessary to save these 2,000 jobs. This is an emergency, and the Prime Minister should act now.

Disaster Relief Program

[Dave Chatters, Reform, Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my constituents I would like to raise a concern today about the federal disaster relief program.

Although the flooding in northern Alberta did not receive the attention that the flood in the Saguenay did, the damage to homes, crops and businesses was no less devastating to those affected.

In spite of this, many of my constituents have been denied disaster relief funding to compensate them for the loss of a lifetime's worth of work simply because they were forced to pursue off-farm income to keep their farming operations viable.

I and my constituents believe that if the federal government is going to have a program to compensate Canadians for losses due to natural disasters, then all Canadians should be equally compensated for losses incurred.

The people affected by this biased criteria are only victims of circumstance and would have been full time farm operators if they had had a choice. The damage sustained is no less devastating to them and their families.

I have written to Emergency Preparedness Canada and to the Minister of National Defence and received no response. I ask the minister to re-examine the eligibility criteria as described under the disaster relief program.

City Of Burnaby

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last Saturday in Ottawa the city of Burnaby was awarded the 1996 Communities in Bloom prize. This award recognizes the quality of Burnaby's green spaces, the diversity and originality of its landscaping, general tidiness, environmental awareness, heritage and the level of community involvement.

As well, Burnaby has demonstrated its concern for the future development of public areas through land acquisition dedicated to preservation, restoration and recreational activities.

I want to congratulate Burnaby residents as well as city staff, the Burnaby Beautification Committee and elected officials for this terrific national recognition.

This has been an exciting year for Burnaby. In fact, recently Burnaby's Simon Fraser University pipe band won an unprecedented second world championship at the world competition in Glasgow, Scotland.

Congratulations to the champions in beauty and in bagpiping.

Jobs For Young People

[Denis Paradis, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, some 30 young people from Brome-Missisquoi spent the summer working in other ridings across Canada, while young people from those other ridings came to Bedford, Cowansville, Magog, Farnham, Bromont and the Champlain Lake region.

This was an extraordinary experience for these young people, and I will have the opportunity to elaborate on this in the coming weeks.

But for now I would like to thank my colleagues and their staff for taking care of our young people from Brome-Missisquoi, starting with Pat in Edmonton, Marc in Victoria, and Paul in Montague.

I also wish to thank my colleagues: the hon. member for Edmonton Northwest, the hon. member for Victoria, the hon. member for Timiskaming-French River, the hon. member for Cardigan, Prince Edward Island, the hon. member for Oxford, and the hon. member for Hamilton East.

I join with the people of Brome-Missisquoi and especially these 60 young Canadians in expressing our deep gratitude.

International Plowing Match

[Bob Speller, Liberal, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it was a great pleasure for the municipality of Haldimand-Norfolk to host the International Plowing Match and country festival this past week. This was a wonderful opportunity for the citizens of Haldimand-Norfolk and for all rural Canadians. Even though our fields were muddy, they were friendly.

I would like to thank the chair, Warren Burger and the hundreds of volunteers who invested endless hours of work to make the ploughing match a success.

I would also like to thank the Prime Minister and other MPs for taking advantage of the opportunity to attend the match. By joining us in our fields of friendship they have once again been able to recognize the importance of the traditional values associated with rural Canada, values such as hard work and a commitment to friends and family.

This, indeed, was a match to remember. I call on all members of the House to attend the next one in Simcoe county next September.

Le Mouvement De Libération Nationale Du Québec

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, Raymond Villeneuve, a founding member of the Mouvement de libération nationale du Québec, made totally unacceptable comments about Quebec's Jewish and anglophone communities.

On behalf of the Bloc Quebecois, I wish to condemn Mr. Villeneuve's comments, which are intolerable in a democratic society. I remind him that Quebec sovereignists condemn all acts of violence against others. A dispassionate, rational debate on Quebec's future can only be held in a climate of respect for democracy.

Yesterday, the Bloc Quebecois strongly condemned Mr. Villeneuve even before the hon. member for Saint-Denis raised this matter in the House. The Bloc Quebecois will always condemn those who make racist comments, whether it is Mr. Villeneuve or Mr. Galganov. The Bloc Quebecois urges the hon. member for Saint-Denis to do the same.

Gun Control

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, gun control Bill C-68. Yes, that Liberal attempt to be all things to all people. Let us not be too tough on criminals with guns, but let us make sure those rod and gun club members are watched. And do not forget the farmers and hunters. Why, who knows when they will rob a bank?

Just a few days ago five-yes I said five-people were murdered in my riding. No, the killers did not use sticks or stones or talk them to death. They used guns. I am now searching the gun registry to find out when the killers registered their guns. I also want to search the scene of the crime to see where the killers left the registration numbers of their guns so we can get a match and arrest them.

Perhaps the killers have not sent in their gun registration fee yet. We have to find out all these things to ensure we are protected.

Aren't we fortunate to have a Liberal government that understands how crime is prevented in Abbotsford and Langley, British Columbia?

Crime Statistics

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party has released a brochure called "Do You Feel Safe". This brochure is the Reform Party's attempt to mislead Canadians with false facts and use their fear of crime to add to the party's coffers.

Reformers choose to fuel the fear of crime and ignore the fact that crime in Canada has been steadily decreasing as the 1995 crime statistics clearly show.

Fact: violent crime fell by 4 per cent, the largest drop since 1962. Fact: the homicide rate dropped 3 per cent, reaching the lowest level since 1969. Fact: homicides involving firearms dropped 10 per cent.

Reform MPs stand up in the House and repeat the details of horrific crimes and grandstand in public as tough crime fighters. At the same time they consistently vote against the government's get tough measures such as sentencing reform and gun control. The Reform Party ask: "Do you want to feel safe in your own home and community?"

Actions speak louder than words. The government wants results, not rhetoric. It will continue to focus on substance, not cheap slogans.

The Mouvement De Libération National Du Québec

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, is it just a coincidence or a skilfully organized stunt? That is what we find ourselves wondering following the recent run-in the BQ leader had with the Canadian Jewish Congress, and the threats uttered against the Jewish community by Raymond Villeneuve.

In La Tempête , the Mouvement de libération nationale du Québec or MLNQ newspaper, Raymond Villeneuve stated: The B'nai B'rith lobby is now calling for the resignation of Michel Gauthier, the Bloc leader, after he requested that Jewish organizers distance themselves from the actions of activist Howard Galganov.

We pressed the Bloc leader to condemn the MLNQ president's statement, but he only timidly distances himself from this extremist movement. Are we to conclude that the Bloc and Raymond Villeneuve's movement have more in common than the Bloc leader would have us believe?

Family Trusts

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, on the issue of the family trust scandal, we now have the Minister of National Revenue, while still refusing to shed light on the flight of capital out of the country, accusing the opposition of being on the wrong track for wanting to shed light on the decisions made in a panic on December 23 to allow a wealthy Canadian family to transfer to the U.S. more than $2 billion without paying a penny in taxes. According to the minister, it is a mistake for the Bloc to want to get to the bottom of this.

How can the revenue minister accuse the opposition of being on the wrong track for wanting to know the truth about these tax loopholes, when the auditor general, experts with no connection to wealthy Canadian families and Canadian editorial writers join with the official opposition in demanding that light be shed on this tax-free flight of capital out of the country?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, let me begin by reiterating what I said in the House yesterday.

First, the government took very seriously the report of the auditor general and reacted quickly. It sent the report to the finance committee for its full review and for its recommendations. That committee has made recommendations that the Minister of Finance is reviewing and taking very seriously.

As the minister of revenue, I am glad to have received the recommendations which said that my department must act with transparency, make consistent decisions and have full documentation.

I am glad that the committee also noted that we have begun to take action in that regard and that it praises the government for ensuring integrity for the Canadian citizen.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, as everyone saw in the newspapers, the minister is accusing the opposition of barking up the wrong tree, because we want to know the truth. We want to know what happened, period.

The minister explained that these tax loopholes are maintained because the law applies not only to the rich, as she said, but also to ordinary people.

Does the minister realize that what the auditor general condemned was that over $2 billion was taken out of the country, tax free, by a single Canadian family, and that it is on this case, and other similar ones which may have occurred in the past and which may occur in the future, that we want to shed light? It is clear, simple and logical to me.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, I will not engage in speculation about what may or may not have happened.

What I would like to do is quote from the report that was received by me and the Minister of Finance: "The committee heard no evidence that these transactions have already cost the Canadian fisc any actual tax revenue". The committee notes that the auditor general and his officials were able to identify any significant new tax avoidance opportunity created for other taxpayers by these rulings".

The auditor general could only speculate about tax laws. It is beyond me why the members opposite are so definite about this. If they have information that they presented to the committee, can they present it to this House?

My understanding is that when asked outside these walls by the press, they were unable to substantiate the claims they are making in this Chamber.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, allow me to summarize.

The auditor general told us about over $2 billion leaving the country, tax free. This is the first element. The opposition has been condemning this situation for three years, because we knew, we realized this was a possibility. This is fact number two. The third point is that the Deputy Minister of Revenue, Mr. Gravelle, told the finance committee that there may have been other similar occurrences. This is not just anybody. Her deputy minister said there may have been other such cases.

My question is for the minister. Does the minister not realize that she is making a mistake by attempting to cover up what happened with this December 23 ruling, by attempting to hide behind the report of the Liberal members of the committee to avoid shedding light on this issue? All Canadians want to know what happened, and we will find out.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, let us recall that this decision happened in 1991 with a former government, not a Liberal government, a Conservative government.

When this was drawn to our attention, we acted very quickly and rapidly. As minister of revenue, I placed a moratorium on any further rulings on taxable Canadian property while the finance committee was doing a very important review, the first review of this piece of the Income Tax Act in 25 years.

As well, upon receiving the report of the finance committee, I have extended the moratorium on any further rulings to do with taxable Canadian property until such time as the Minister of Finance has had an opportunity to review the recommendations and make decisions on making changes that are appropriate and in line with the kind of government that we are.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the previous Conservative government is responsible, then what do the Liberals have to worry about if light is shed on this episode? What do they have to fear? Are they afraid that, if we scratch the blue, we may find some red underneath?

Yesterday, the revenue minister systematically refused to shed light on the family trust scandal. Instead, she attacked the official opposition which, according to her, was perpetuating a myth. When $2 billion leave the country tax free, it is far from being a myth to taxpayers.

How can the revenue minister claim that the report of the Liberal majority of the finance committee shed light on the issue of tax leakages when, in fact, this report served only two purposes: to cover up the issue and to discredit the auditor general, who has become an embarrassment to the government?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, I fail to understand how the opposition can talk about any kind of lack of integrity. We received the response from the auditor general with open arms and then asked the committee, on which the hon. member sits, to review it in its entirety for the first time in 25 years and to make real recommendations not on issues upon which they speculate but on the reality of taxpayer migration and how we should tax that circumstance. We want to have a tax system that is fair and that the Canadian citizenry can have a sense of confidence in.

We have taken those actions. We have received the recommendations. There is a moratorium on further tax rulings. The Minister of Finance is looking at the recommendations that fully point to the policy in specific. As the minister of revenue, I have taken specific actions in terms of improving the manner in which my department operates.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the first thing the Liberal government did when the auditor general denounced it was to try to cloud the issue, never to get to the bottom of it, to the bottom of this scandal.

I put the question to the revenue minister: Why refuse to clarify? Why refuse to tell Canadians what really happened on the evening of December 23, 1991, and what may have happened since then, because you have set a dangerous precedent?

[The Speaker]

My dear colleagues, I would remind you that you must always go through the Chair.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, let me be clear on a number of issues.

When I reviewed the report of the auditor general I spoke to him directly and said: "Are you concerned about the integrity of my department?" He said to me: "No, I am not". When I spoke to my deputy minister and asked him if we have a right to be concerned about the integrity of the Department of National Revenue, he said: "No, we do not". When the chair of the finance committee spoke to the auditor general and to the assistant auditor general about this issue he received this response: "There is no evidence of wrongdoing or interference in the decision making process here".

Yesterday the hon. member for Capilano-Howe Sound said: "In spite of serious efforts on my part, in no case could I discover any evidence of wrongdoing".

Mr. Speaker, our government does not engage in any kind of witch hunts. If the hon. member has proof that he has not yet made public, please ask him to do so.

Canadian Armed Forces

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, retired Major-General Lewis MacKenzie is one of this country's most distinguished soldiers. Even the government acknowledges that. No one disputes that Major-General Lewis MacKenzie cares passionately about the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces. Today he said: "There is a morale crisis in the Canadian forces and my plea is that the political leadership accept that and do something about it".

Does the Prime Minister accept that there is a morale crisis in the Canadian Armed Forces and will he do something by replacing the chief of defence staff and the Minister of National Defence?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, of course, like a lot of people, I respect very much Major-General MacKenzie. I know him personally. But the reality is there is an inquiry going on at this moment on what happened in Somalia. Let the inquiry do its job.

In terms of the operation of the armed forces, today they made a decision to have a new function established to make sure that grievances from troops will go straight to the highest level possible in the army. That is the way to solve problems. Just shuffling people around does not solve problems. We are trying to reform an institution that is going through a very difficult time.

We had to close bases. We had to reduce the number of generals from 120 to below 80. It is very difficult for the people who operate in that situation to understand that it is difficult for everybody, not only for the soldiers who have to live with that and the managers of the department, but it is tough for us too. We do not make these cuts and readjustments just for the pleasure of doing them. It is because they are needed to make sure that the finances of the nation will be in proper shape.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if the Prime Minister does not act at the top others are forced to improvise down below.

Lieutenant-General Maurice Baril has become tired of waiting for General Boyle to appoint an inspector general. So he has created his own position of command inspector to investigate charges of poor leadership and morale. He says: "I can't wait six months. I want to find out immediately, did the leadership fail". The leadership did fail and it continues to fail.

How long do the soldiers have to wait? How low does morale have to get before the Prime Minister does the right thing, as distinct from the politically expedient thing, and fire General Boyle and the Minister of National Defence?