Debates of Oct. 10th, 1997

Rcmp Investigations

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, they can stop the melodramatics. When the minister says that they are “well organized”, does this mean that a minister's office which is under investigation might be informed of a search ahead of time? That is the question.

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, I am saying that what is important to know is how the Conservative member, who disclosed the information in the House, had found out? That is the real question.

[Chris Axworthy, NDP, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Mr. Speaker, we have heard a lot about Liberal influence peddling over the last few days. You know what they say, if you throw a rock and you hear a squeal you have probably hit a pig. And we have heard a lot of squealing on this—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Go directly to your question, please.

[Chris Axworthy, NDP, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. When did the arm's length relationship with the RCMP and the government end?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the relationship continues as it was in the past. The arm's length relationship is still there as it should be.

My hon. friend in his squealing has not made a valid assertion. He should look at himself in the mirror before he presents these unwarranted premises to his questions.

[Chris Axworthy, NDP, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister and the President of the Treasury Board indicated that they knew what the RCMP was doing.

Why did the Liberal government call in the RCMP on this investigation? Why did it not call in the Sûreté du Québec, the provincial police, which should be looking into this question? Is it because the government knew it would get better, more regular reports from the RCMP than it would from the sûreté?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this is an unwarranted slur on one of the finest police forces in the world. The assertion, which is false, is particularly strange coming from the hon. member who comes from the province of Saskatchewan, the historic home of the RCMP.

I think his constituents will soundly criticize him for this unwarranted slur. It is totally unjustified. It is perfectly logical that the hon. minister thought that since these allegations related to matters—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in response to my question about a search warrant at his Montreal office, the minister told me it was irrelevant. Then he said that the warrant may have been executed. He then said that he knew of a warrant that may have been executed. Finally he said, and told us again today, that he learned about it from me. This does not sound well organized.

It is obvious that the minister does not know or does not want us to know anything about this matter. Can the minister at least clear up one thing for us today? How can a field organizer know about pending applications, the stage of the applications and the fact that they were on his desk?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the real question is how did the member know. I learned about it from him in the House. The Conservative member mentioned at the same time that there was, which I do not know. The member also mentioned the number of the search warrant which I do not know.

The real question here is how did he know the information about there being a search warrant?

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question again to the minister is very simple. Will the minister come clean and tell us—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I am having a difficult time hearing the question and I know we all want to hear it.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Can the minister come clean and tell us by whom and how Mr. Corbeil was informed that applications awaiting approval by the government were sitting on his desk? Can he tell us that, please?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, can the member come clean and tell us how he had information that was supposed to be confidential?

Taxation

[Eric C. Lowther, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Liberaldom was rocked yesterday by the comments of New Brunswick Premier Frank McKenna. Now free from Liberal office, the premier can honestly say that federal transfer payments and income support had become the opiate of the Atlantic region. The premier instead suggests that maritime businesses be stimulated by lowering taxes. Imagine that.

My question to the finance minister is, will the minister take this frank advice and make broad based tax cuts this government's number one priority?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to see this last minute conversion by the member for the Reform Party.

In the last House the great advantage of the harmonized sales tax was that it substantially reduced taxes for small and medium size businesses in Atlantic Canada. That is why the then premier called for it and the other premiers in Atlantic Canada called for it. It was to lower the tax burden on those who were creating jobs. I am delighted to see that the hon. member now recognizes the wisdom of that approach.

[Eric C. Lowther, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Premier McKenna said that he can finally speak his mind now that he has stepped down from office. I wonder if the minister across the way can actually say the same. To point to harmonized tax cuts does not at all address my question.

We have a national unemployment rate of 9%. It is time for the government to take off its rose coloured glasses and look at real solutions.

Will this government listen to the millions clamouring for tax relief or is it still stuck with the old vision of big government spending?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the member undoubtedly saw this morning that there were in fact 16,000 new jobs created and over 279,000 new jobs created since we have taken office. More important, the vast majority of those jobs have been permanent full time jobs. Not only that, but we have just come through the best four month period of job creation for young Canadians since 1990. This government is creating jobs. Canadians—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Bonaventure—Gaspé—Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Pabok.

Fishing Industry

[Yvan Bernier, Bloc, Bonaventure—Gaspé—Îles-De-La-Madeleine—Pabok, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

Last July, during a visit to my riding, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans said, and I quote: “It is clear that a certain transition will be required for the Atlantic groundfish strategy ending next May”.

Now that the auditor general has made public the failure of government policy, which is tarnishing the reputation of coastal communities, can the minister now tell us what transition measures he intends to put in place?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. I did visit his riding, Gaspé, as he indicated. I pointed out at that time in discussions with fishers in that area that we have too many boats and too many fishermen out there chasing too few fish. We have not had the recovery of northern cod stocks in particular that we would like. Therefore it will be necessary to continue with rationalization of the fleet and a reduction of the number of licences. These are programs that will come forward in due course. I should point out however—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member Bonaventure—Gaspé—îles-de-la-Madeleine—Pabok.