House of Commons Hansard #9 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was percent.

Topics

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Augustine Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

Mr. Speaker, let me take this opportunity to congratulate you on your appointment as Acting Speaker of the House of Commons. I am confident that you will assume your responsibility with great skill, integrity and competence as you have shown so far in your time in the House. You can be assured of my personal support. I wish you well.

I would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate the prime minister and all members of the House on their election and re-election to this Parliament. As parliamentarians we have a tremendous task ahead of us to steer our nation into the 21st century.

I would like to express my sincere appreciation to the people of Etobicoke—Lakeshore. I want my constituents to know that I am determined to work hard in voicing their concerns. I am proud and deeply honoured to be their elected representative for a second time. I will always be grateful for the trust and confidence they have placed in me over the years. It is my pleasure to continue to be of service to them.

I also want to take this opportunity to thank my constituency staff who served me well in the last Parliament and who continue to provide the support I need; my Hill staff, Carole and Donald, my constituency staff, Anne Simone and Phil Sbrocchi, and all who worked to support me in my duties.

Etobicoke—Lakeshore is a beautiful place, a home to peoples of diverse backgrounds, a rich tapestry of multicultural unique neighbourhoods. Etobicoke—Lakeshore is well situated in the greater Toronto area and is in close proximity to the major transportation routes, to Pearson airport, the Toronto Island airport and the Toronto harbour. It is well served by major highways such as the Queen Elizabeth Way, Highway 427 and Highway 401.

The riding is as economically diverse as the people in it. Industries in the riding cut across many sectors. A diverse combination of small and medium size businesses provides services in key industrial areas such as manufacturing, retail and wholesale trade, business and health and social services.

In the late eighties and early nineties the economy of Etobicoke—Lakeshore suffered as companies felt the impact of the recession and the economic policies of the past government. I remember a time when storefronts were littered with for lease, power of sale and going out of business signs. But today we witness a fair degree of economic activity especially in the key sectors of Etobicoke—Lakeshore.

The Liberal government's strong commitment to fiscal responsibility as articulated in successive budgets, the red book and the throne speech has provided a stable political and a strong economic environment to allow these businesses to rebuild and strengthen their positions in Canada and in world markets.

The federal infrastructure program brought under $12 million to Etobicoke—Lakeshore with an estimated 178 direct construction jobs. This resulted in improvements to roads, sewers and other infrastructure of the riding. The federal job strategy program has also had some positive impact on commercial activity and some of the social institutions in the community. I commend these economic initiatives by the government. However, there is still room for greater economic growth in Etobicoke—Lakeshore. The need is still there for job creation opportunities for older workers and for young people.

In last week's Speech from the Throne the government noted that it will continue to take further action to encourage new investments, to create new jobs and to generate the national wealth necessary to assure Canadians a stable and secure future. I am very pleased that the government has made this commitment. There is hope and optimism for the industries and for my constituents in Etobicoke—Lakeshore.

In a consultation meeting with my constituents which I held fairly recently with a mixture of small and medium size businesses in Etobicoke—Lakeshore, I heard that the people of Etobicoke—Lakeshore want a country that is fiscally strong, safe and tolerant. They want a country where youth and adults can find gainful decent employment, a country where young people can realize their dreams. The commitment to invest 50 percent of the budgetary process to these social and economic initiatives shows the government's willingness to practise fiscal responsibility while it addresses these pressing problems.

I can assure the prime minister and the finance minister they will have my support and my constituents' support to stay the course of fiscal prudence and to find opportunities for young people. Our young people are the future of this country. As we head into the new millennium we must ensure that our youth have the opportunity to develop their abilities through education and adequate job training.

In the Speech from the Throne the government placed strong emphasis on these critical issues of concern to young people. Partner initiatives such as the youth internship program with the YMCA and career edge are steps in the right direction in assuring the youth of this nation get on track and stay on track.

I am equally proud that this Liberal government will establish a Canada millennium scholarship endowment fund and will work to reduce barriers to post-secondary education for young people by making further changes to Canada student loans programs. Our commitment to invest in knowledge and creativity must begin with the youth of this nation. Youth in my riding and across the country must be prepared to meet the challenges that lie ahead in a globally competitive economy.

A safe and just society is valued by my constituents and by all Canadians. I have heard from my constituents of Etobicoke—Lakeshore that they want to feel secure in their homes and in their communities.

There are a couple of local newspapers that publish weekly and bi-weekly which contain columns where the crimes committed on a weekly basis are listed. Those listings do cause concern and do give individuals a sense that their communities are unsafe.

We have to ensure that every citizen and every member of the constituency of Etobicoke—Lakeshore feels safe in their home and in their community.

I know many of my constituents are still apprehensive about their personal safety and their concerns are being addressed through crime prevention programs. They have taken the time to organize community based crime prevention initiatives through federal government funding of $30 million. My constituents will benefit from this initiative and I am proud to be part of the team that believes that our criminal justice system and the safety of Canadians deserve attention and action.

I will continue to work for the people of Etobicoke—Lakeshore who want to see a united Canada. I know they look to me to work with my colleagues here in the House to ensure the future direction of Canada. I challenge all members, irrespective of party affiliation, to help in moulding a nation of which we can all be proud citizens.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Bloc

Stéphan Tremblay Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Speaker, to a person who is just an ordinary citizen, not particularly interested in politics, who turns on the TV to find our colleague across the way on the screen, praising the youth program being developed by the Minister of Human Resources Development, as I heard him doing—the minister seems to be confirming my words—that it is important for people to understand that the youth programs, the Human Resources Development programs, must reflect youth problems as much as possible.

What must be understood is that the problems very often differ from one region to the next. When the federal government comes up with programs, very often the problem is that it bases them on a single reality. I do not know if it is the reality as perceived by public servants or by politicians, but it is the reality of people with a view of the country that is very—

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

An hon. member

Outdated.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Bloc

Stéphan Tremblay Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Outdated, perhaps, but a very global and very uniform view of the country.

I will ask one question of the hon. member across the way. Does she not consider that all of the youth initiatives taken by the government are merely interference in areas of provincial jurisdiction?

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Augustine Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

Mr. Speaker, until the member's last statement I thought he was asking for some way in which we could have uniform programs across the country that would address the needs of young people. I was really applauding him for this.

I represent a constituency which has young people who attend colleges and universities right across this great land from one province to another. They must have their credits transferred. They need the programs of uniformity of credentials. I understood he was referring to the fact that our young people must be given opportunities in all parts of the country to reach their full potential.

It is important to separate out the kinds of squabbles that are occurring right now which do not benefit our young people. While we are involved in these kinds of squabbles our young people are finding it difficult to have their own issues addressed.

I want to compliment the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

October 2nd, 1997 / 3:25 p.m.

Reform

Rick Casson Reform Lethbridge, AB

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate you on your appointment. You look very regal today and I am sure you will rule the House with a fair hand.

I was listening to the member from across the way. She mentioned she has many manufacturing businesses, many retail businesses, small businesses and large businesses in her constituency, as I have. She mentioned that at a recent meeting they were quite happy with what is going on. They are thriving.

This is what I heard when I was campaigning and talking to these people in businesses in Lethbridge. They would really appreciate a tax break. I have been told that if we could give businesses a tax break, they would hire more people, they would reinvest in their businesses, they would expand and they would start new enterprises.

I would like to ask the member if this type of comment has come to her and if there is any plan by this government to do just that.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Augustine Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly the kind of discussion that takes place once small business and business people are brought together.

What help do we need from the federal government to ensure that we have job creation in business? What can we do to help our own businesses to grow and what can we do to help communities so that we could employ more individuals?

Reinvestment, the issue of not having so much red tape, cutting out the bureaucracy, ensuring there are incentives within programs that would assist us are always on the table and those are the issues that I bring to the fore, that I share with my colleagues in the various forums and that the ministers use in their programs.

Their programs are good examples of what we need to do and more voices speaking for the businesses in my riding would ensure that we address some of those concerns.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, this is the first time I have had the opportunity to speak in this new Parliament.

I would like to extend my very best congratulations and good wishes to you on your appointment to this important post. As you have heard from many other members, you enjoy the confidence of this House and we look forward to having you preside over some of these debates.

I would also like to take the opportunity to thank my constituents of Calgary—Nose Hill for their confidence in me and for returning me to this position as their elected representative in the Parliament of Canada.

I take my duties to them very seriously and want to do a good job of representing their interests and of being their voice in these debates.

To my constituents in Calgary—Nose Hill, a profound thank you and a commitment to them to act in their interests over the next term of Parliament.

I am the opposition critic for Human Resources Development, a very large portfolio of government which handles and administers the social programs of this country.

Because social issues are extremely important to Canadians, we have a very important job as official opposition in this House to hold the government accountable for what it is doing on behalf of Canadians and for the administration of their security and their futures.

Canadians take very great pride in our country's social stability and in the security that we enjoy. When we are sick we feel we can be looked after. When we are old we have hope that we will have enough income to have our needs met and to have a comfortable life.

These are only two of many areas where Canadians are proud that there is not the want and the disadvantage and the need as in other countries of the world that are not as fortunate as we have been.

The Reform Party places a very great emphasis on the social safety net for Canadians. Reformers have children to educate. Reformers get sick. Reformers have disasters happen where we become disabled and need additional assistance. Reformers get old and want to have pensions. We are vitally concerned as a party and as Canadians about this important area of Canadian society and Canadian life.

Part of what we have been doing over the last 10 years in trying to emphasize and push Canadian governments into getting our economic affairs under some sort of rational control is targeted to sustain the social security we have enjoyed in the past and enjoy now. Many Canadians see this security slipping away as we are crippled by debt, deficit, runaway programs, and waste and abuse of the resources of the country.

The focus or end target of our strong fiscal message is security and sustaining of the social safety net we enjoy. Sometimes as Reformers we talk a lot about the means but not so much about the end which is vitally important to all of us.

Canadians have a history of hard work, thrift, saving part of our income for a rainy day and investing for the future. These characteristics were essential to the settlement, development and enrichment of this great country. These characteristics are exhibited today by new Canadians, people who continue to come to this country from all over the world to become citizens of Canada in order to build strong futures for themselves and for their children.

Canadians also have a sense of fairness. We like to see those who are disabled, disadvantaged or have experienced unexpected hardships succeed. We like to see the young given a fair start. We like to see those who work, who contribute and who save be rewarded.

Canadians dislike waste. They dislike seeing our tax dollars foolishly spent or abused. Canadians dislike seeing those in greatest need receive too little from the rest of society while some with substantial means receive too much.

I speak for a party committed to a political process which reflects the views and interests of regular Canadians rather than the political elites, a party whose principles and policies are formulated at the constituency level and must be approved by the membership, a party that publishes its principles and policies called the blue book for all to read and to consider.

They know what they are buying when they vote Reform. Often our policies and principles are distorted and misrepresented by opponents, but as we grow in maturity and in strength as a party more and more Canadians know the common sense and the solid policy underlying what we are doing as a party.

I also speak for a party whose leader consults with real people, not imaginary ones, about their interests and needs and has a long term vision for the country based on openness and compassion.

Reform Party principles and policies support a secure and sustainable social safety net including secure retirement incomes, insurance against unexpected job loss, and promotion of research and educational excellence. They ensure that families have the resources to care for their children. Reformers strongly believe that social benefits must be focused on those who truly need them and must be delivered in a compassionate manner.

Reformers also stress that programs must be soundly designed and managed. They must be financially sustainable and administered as much as possible without huge bureaucracies, masses of rules and regulations such as supposed universal benefits which are then followed by complex clawback rules.

All these traditional Liberal practices need to be reduced or eliminated. Co-operative arrangements with provinces, communities and the private sector need to be encouraged and expanded.

Canadians and Reformers are realistic. New realities emerge and Canadians see and understand them. The Liberal Party and the government are slow to recognize new things and even slower to act.

As Canada's opposition party, Reform has a duty and a responsibility to point out areas where the government is not adequately serving the interests of Canadians and to urge government to take corrective action.

The Liberal government is failing to grapple successfully with at least three emerging realities.

The first is that Canadians increasingly understand personal income taxes in Canada are unjustly high. The after tax income of Canadian families has declined by 7 percent since 1989. This translates to a drop in the income of the average Canadian family since the Liberals were elected in 1993 of $3,000. Yet the government continues to waste money and to think up additional non-essential programs while Canadian families increasingly must go without.

The federal government has failed to be specific or to demonstrate convincing determination about cutting taxes for Canadians, allowing them to keep their own resources to care for their families.

A second reality is the consequences of Canada's federal debt. Liberal and Tory governments have gleefully borrowed everything they could get their hands on for the past 25 years. Borrowed money outstanding now stands at $600 billion, with an annual interest bill of $46 billion. This is the largest single item in the government's budget and it looms as a long term threat to Canadian social security. It is a mortgage on our children's future.

A third reality is that Canada's social programs need reform. Many of them are badly designed, unsustainable and even dysfunctional. The traditional Liberal, NDP and Tory approaches of throwing additional billions at problems is no longer a realistic solution, even though we see the government continuing to attempt to do that.

Canadians are concerned by what they see happening. How did we get into this fix? Who was asleep at the switch? How will our social programs be repaired? Who will pay for the errors of the past? What is reasonable and fair? These are important questions.

Let us talk about fairness for a moment. Government revenues to pay for social programs such as educating the young or paying for non-contributory benefits for the elderly come largely from taxes levied on those who are working. Canadians have always been willing to support the transfer of funds between generations. Intergenerational transfers, however, must be seen to be fair.

Are the excessive EI premiums levied on workers and businesses today fair? The answer in the minds of many Canadians is no.

Is the excessive tax hike and the resulting burden placed on generations x and even y fair? Again the answer coming back is no.

Government can be evaluated on many things including on how well it looks after the interests of all our citizens and how well it designs and manages programs, especially social programs.

The throne speech led us to expect government legislation during the 36th Parliament on proposed changes to the Canada pension plan, the new seniors benefit, a national child benefit system, the Canadian Labour Code, as well as new programs for people with disabilities, youth training, education and employment, expanding opportunities for aboriginals and health care.

One of the key blocks in our social safety net affecting every working Canadian is the Canada pension plan, so I would like to talk about it for a moment. The Canada pension plan has been with us since January 1, 1966 or almost 32 years.

Canadians are in favour of a contributory public pension plan. That is assuming that such a plan is well designed and managed. Unfortunately the CPP is neither. It is neither well designed nor has it been well managed.

The combined contribution rate for CPP was just 3.6 percent of earnings for the first 20 years of the plan, moved up to 5.6 percent by the 30th year, and will be 9.9 percent prior to its 40th birthday.

The architects of the plan promised Canadians that contributions would never exceed 5.5 percent. Already we see a margin of error of 80 percent in the forecast of the contribution rate. The inevitable conclusion is that the plan has been either badly designed or poorly managed, and in fact it is both.

Designers made huge errors in their projections of birth rate, numbers of contributors and rates of economic growth. The managers, subsequent Liberal and Tory governments, enriched benefits, added new benefits and invested the fund at low yields without adjusting contribution rates.

The first beneficiaries of the CPP received benefits averaging over 11 times greater than the value of their contributions, while those entering the plan today will receive a return of less than one-half of the value of their contributions. One generation receives a return over 20 times greater than another generation, and we have a difficult situation because of that.

Reform introduced a modern new redesign of this important plan which would provide good and fair pensions for all contributors at retirement. Our plan calls for individualized accounts which means that individuals own all the assets in their account and can leave them to their survivors, while still protecting the benefits of retired and near retired Canadians.

If young Canadians knew that each dollar they put into CPP would go into their own personal account and that they would receive it all back, including a fair market return on their investment, they would gladly support the plan. Our plan reduces intergenerational transfers which will become a major source of social stress. We see that already beginning with the current debate on changes to the plan.

Our plan would be open and transparent. Thus each individual would know the value of their assets in the plan at all times.

The transition from the present CPP to our super RRSP, which is what we have called our Reform plan, would take some time. Middle aged Canadians would have to be given options to stay in their present arrangements or transfer to the new plan. Several countries have already made this transition and we believe Canada can do so as well.

What I am suggesting to the government is not to just keep going down the same old road of poor plan design and eventual failure and crisis but to look around, look at new ideas and adopt a plan that would deliver fairness to future generations of Canadians.

This whole matter of the Canada pension plan will be debated in the House starting on Monday. I urge Canadians who are watching the debate today, if they do not watch any other debate the rest of the year—and some of us wonder why they would—to watch the one on Monday. It will affect every working Canadian, especially our children and our grandchildren. It will be a very important debate.

The latest product of the Liberal spin doctors is the seniors benefit which we understand will be introduced in this parliament. Apparently the program is designed partly by officials in the Department of Human Resources Development and partly by a number of focus groups under the direction of a political consulting firm. The political consulting firm essentially gave the government advice on what was politically saleable, but it appears that no one provided advice on what makes sense for Canadian seniors, for Canadian taxpayers or for future generations.

Among other things, in order to deliver extra dollars to the finance department so it could claim great success in its deficit fighting measures, some believe the tax back rates on this new federal seniors benefit will be irrational but certainly excessive. It will force Canadians to change their economic behaviour in other ways to avoid this penalty.

When people change their economic behaviour and hide retirement income, it simply increases the load on government with more demand for social programs.

The measure will be debated in the House and I urge Canadians to be alert to these changes. We believe there are many flaws in this proposed seniors benefit. For example, the provinces will lose a fairly large source of future tax revenue because the present old age security is taxable and the new seniors benefit is not taxable by the provinces.

We in the Reform Party will work hard in the committee and in the House to ensure that the seniors benefit legislation is right for seniors, taxpayers and for all Canadians.

Canadians are seeking a fresh new vision and plan to replace the failed directions of the past. The Reform Party was formed because the old parties no longer serve our interests. I am sad to say that includes four of the parties in the House.

The Reform Party was formed because the people want good jobs with good incomes as their best social security. They want generous help to be there for the disabled and those in need. However, they are fed up with programs that reward not need, but greed.

Younger Canadians want affordable education and fairness in their tax load. All of us want prompt, caring medical help when illness or accidents strike. We want a safety net if disaster befalls us, but believe we could better protect ourselves and our families against that if there was less government meddling in our lives, however well intentioned.

The Reform Party is finding new and better ways to deliver these results for Canadians. We are seeking out the best thinking and creative alternatives, both here and internationally, to preserve the security and well-being Canadians want and deserve. We will be a positive voice of new ideas and fresh directions as our country moves into the next century.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Reform

Paul Forseth Reform New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC

Mr. Speaker, while there is much on which I would like to comment, I will make a comment and then pose a question and ask for further expansion from the member for Calgary—Nose Hill.

Earlier today we heard a member from the NDP talk about fairness in taxation. I call their use of the phrase tax fairness a buzzword. We know the buzzword of fair taxation from that party brings with it a political agenda that somewhat represents the politics of envy, taxing the rich and what they used to call the corporate welfare bums and all the philosophy that goes with it.

However, now there is a Reformer talking about fairness in tax load. I would like the member to explain and expand on the difference between the Reform approach to tax fairness versus the typical NDP approach.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, that is what is called hardball. There is an important point of debate here that Canadians are considering, which is the whole notion of transfers between different groups of people.

As the member just pointed out, the former debate was on what would be a fair transfer from people who have more resources to people who have fewer resources. There is now a shift on the axis of the debate because the transfers increasingly have been coming to Canadians who are older from Canadians who are younger and who are just entering the workforce.

The simple fact is that Canadians are an aging population right now. Being one of them I hesitate to belabour the point, however it does need to be made. By the year 2030 I understand there will be 40 percent more seniors than there are now. That means that 40 percent more of the Canadian public will be looking for publicly funded pensions and seniors benefits that have been promised.

Forty percent more Canadians will be making increased demands on our health system. I have already noticed that as you get older a few rust spots appear and you need more body work. This is one of the new realities we have been talking about. There will be some real tension if we do not realize there has been a paradigm shift.

Because of the generous social programs, older Canadians have had a lot of advantages that younger Canadians cannot even hope to have. I urge the government to be very clear. We need to sort this out and to balance it out quickly before there is some real social stress that will cause difficulty in our country.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Lorne Nystrom NDP Qu'Appelle, SK

Mr. Speaker, does the hon. member really believe that we have tax fairness in this country, that the Conrad Blacks and other wealthy people pay their fair share of taxes?

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Reform

Jason Kenney Reform Calgary Southeast, AB

They pay more than their fair share.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Lorne Nystrom NDP Qu'Appelle, SK

Now they are saying they pay more than their fair share.

Does the hon. member for Calgary—Nose Hill agree that the millionaires pay more than their fair share in taxes? Does she agree with that position? Is that the official position of the Reform Party, that the millionaires in Canada pay more than they should be paying? Is that the kind of party that is representing people in this House? How can that relate to the ordinary people in my riding that live in the inner core of the city, that are suffering from day to day to put milk and food on the table?

Yet here is the Reform Party saying that millionaires pay too much in taxes. Millionaires pay too much in taxes is what they are saying. Does she agree with her fellow member that millionaires pay too much in taxes, those poor Conrad Blacks, those poor Frank Stronachs? Does she agree with that?

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, I think I got the gist of the question in the first 30 seconds but I am sure with the additional rhetoric that we really got it.

The NDP unfortunately is really out of touch with reality. NDP members keep going on and on about the Conrad Blacks. The fact of the matter is there is a bare handful of individuals like the person referred to by the member. These entrepreneurs and risk takers employ hundreds if not thousands of Canadians and pay enormous amounts of taxes.

If the member cares to look at some of the figures from the government he will see that the top 10 percent of income earners in this country pay half of the taxes. Mr. Speaker, do you know how much you have to earn to be in the top 10 percent of earners in this country?

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

NDP

John Solomon NDP Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

That's not true, Diane.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary Nose Hill, AB

I hope the member is listening to me. I hear some noise back there but I assume he does want to hear this information.

To be in the top 10 percent of earners in this country you have to earn $50,000. If the member thinks that is big money then perhaps he should try to look at the cost of living. The people in this country who earn $50,000 and more pay over half the taxes and they are in the top 10 percent.

I think the NDP needs to be a little more realistic when it comes out with some of this—

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Provencher.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

David Iftody Liberal Provencher, MB

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to join this debate. I have a two-part question for the member from Calgary.

Recently it was reported in the Globe and Mail that the good people of Alberta had been consulted on the proposed spending changes by the Klein government. I know that on the first round there were focus groups. The second round of discussions occurred at a forum. I saw people such as the former minister of finance, Don Mazankowski, as well as others, there. Average people from Alberta were consulted in this three day session. The conclusion was that they advised the Government of Alberta not to go for tax cuts. They said that they wanted instead more focus on health care and education.

Having gone through this exercise in Alberta and consulted with the people of Alberta, does the member from Calgary agree with the conclusions of this conference that the people of Alberta do not want any more tax cuts, that they want expenditures in health?

Are people wrong in their evaluation and how does she sit with that?

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure that Albertans would be too flattered to be classed in with Don Mazankowski as an average Albertan. I am happy to correct the hon. member.

The consultation with Albertans did not lead to the results and direction that he says they did. The majority of Albertans in the consultation said that any surpluses in the Alberta government coffers should go toward paying the debt of the province. They do not want a mortgage on the province, on our children and on our future.

The member may be referring to a particular group or interest lobby that held a meeting and came out with those other conclusions. There may be such groups, but the majority of Albertans in the consultation done with every household in the province came down four square for using that money to get rid of the mortgage on our future and our children's future. This is the way Canadians across the country would want the government to act and I urge them to consider that.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Rick Laliberte NDP Churchill River, SK

Mr. Speaker, the average income in the hon. member's riding of Calgary—Nose Hill is about $63,000. In my riding in northern Saskatchewan the average income is about half of that, but the high prices of living in northern Saskatchewan is a reality.

Four litres of milk in some locations in northern Saskatchewan cost $8.50. To try and supplement people's education and future is sometimes out of touch. Any hard time that we feel, there is always warmth and compassion with the New Democratic Party. We will find this in history.

Would the minister consider a fair and equitable portion of a tuition free education for all Canadians?

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, warmth and compassion are good commodities but they do not put milk on the table. What puts milk on the table is money and money comes from having a good job with a good income. It also comes from having a fair tax burden so you can keep enough money to look after your family.

The thing that will not put milk on the table is the emerging multitude of government programs that take money away from working Canadians and leave little for them and their families.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

The Speaker

On a point of order, the hon. government whip.

Special Joint CommitteeGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Kilger Liberal Stormont—Dundas, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think you will find unanimous consent for the following motion:

That the Members of the House of Commons to sit on the Special Joint Committee considering the various aspects of the draft resolution concerning the proposed amendment to section 93 of the Constitution Act, 1867, concerning the school system in Quebec, be the following: Reg Alcock, Peter Goldring, Mauril Bélanger, Rahim Jaffer, Gerry Byrne, Marlene Jennings, Paul DeVillers, Réal Ménard, Nick Discepola, Val Meredith, Sheila Finestone, Denis Paradis, Christiane Gagnon, David Price, Yvon Godin, Paddy Torsney.

Special Joint CommitteeGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Special Joint CommitteeGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to)