House of Commons Hansard #16 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was taxes.

Topics

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:20 p.m.

Reform

Gurmant Grewal Reform Surrey Central, BC

Mr. Speaker, we in the Reform Party have always opposed any further taxes. We think there is a need to give tax relief to the Canadian public who are already taxed almost to death.

The taxes are so high for seniors who are on fixed incomes and their incomes are shrinking. By imposing more tax on them we are making the lives of seniors miserable. There is no way that we can afford to pass this bill with such a tax increase.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:20 p.m.

Reform

Jason Kenney Reform Calgary Southeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, I want to commend the hon. member for Surrey Central for his excellent maiden remarks in the House. His constituents should be proud to be so well represented in the House.

I would like to tag on to the comments the hon. member just made to the question by the hon. member for Qu'Appelle.

The Reform Party believes that all Canadians pay more than their fair share. When we have a tax burden that now consumes over 40% of our gross domestic product, all Canadians are paying more than their fair share.

I want to make one thing clear for the record that the hon. member for Qu'Appelle in his lusty reliving of his sixties class warfare days may not understand.

The federal Department of Finance statistics show that the top 10% of income earners in Canada report about 32% of the income earned and pay 48% of total Canadian taxes. The top 10% pay nearly half of the income taxes. Before the hon. socialist member for P.E.I. stands up, I would like to remind him that this statistic comes from his Department of Finance which also tells us that the top 1% of income earners who report 9% of the income earned pay 18% of the taxes collected in Canada. The top 1% pay nearly 20% of the taxes. The top 10% pay nearly half the taxes. If this is not paying more than their fair share, I do not know what is.

The solution for everybody, whether it is a poor member of Parliament like the member for Qu'Appelle or a Canadian like Mr. Black who is creating jobs, is tax relief so we can have more jobs. Or we could try to tax people out of this country like the hon. member's friends in the NDP in Saskatchewan were so successful in doing in destroying the wealth creation machine in that province by taxing them all into Alberta.

Hopefully we will not do the same thing. Hopefully we will not launch into the same kind of class warfare campaign the hon. member is recommending.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:20 p.m.

Reform

Gurmant Grewal Reform Surrey Central, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member for Calgary South has explained it very well. We support the notion which he tried to express.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:20 p.m.

Reform

Darrel Stinson Reform Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to commend the hon. member on his maiden speech. It was very well done.

He mentioned during his speech that this is a democratic Chamber. I have a couple of questions I would like to ask the member.

He was duly elected in his constituency by the taxpayers of Surrey Central. They sent him here to have his say. The member came down here fully anticipating that this would be a Chamber for debate where he would be allowed to talk on any subject but more important, talk about subjects his constituents deemed important for him to speak upon.

The hon. member mentioned in his speech that Bill C-2 was a pension grab, a rip-off or whatever the member would like to address it as. Personally I think it is a rip-off, legalized theft hidden in government forms. I would like the hon. member to stand up in this House and say to me that underneath the democratic process we have with this so-called Liberal government you were given your chance to stand up here in this House, the greatest house in Canada, to say your speech on behalf of your constituents, that you were allowed that with Bill C-2.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

On behalf of his constituents. The hon. member for Surrey Central.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:25 p.m.

Reform

Gurmant Grewal Reform Surrey Central, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is a good question. I came here with ambitions and aspirations. I came here with the idea that I was going to represent my constituents, but on Bill C-2 I was the next speaker in line. I had lots of things to say about the CPP and Bill C-2. I was astonished when I saw that there was taxation without representation. I could not talk because debate on the bill was closed by members opposite. It is a shame for members opposite that we had so many things to say.

We care about the future of the younger generation on whose backs this government is funding the pension for today's seniors. This was a unique situation I found myself in. I never expected this kind of situation would arise. We warn members opposite and we challenge them to have a debate, to have representation for the people who sent us here to represent them so well. We have every right to represent them. We have every desire to represent them. This situation should never occur. The members on the opposite side should take a serious view of it.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Alex Shepherd Liberal Durham, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have a comment on the issue of hypocrisy. I thought it was kind of unusual in the speeches on Bill C-2 by Reformers that they talked about wanting the time to go back and consult with their constituents. I know we are getting a little off topic but Bill C-2 was presented in the 35th Parliament. The negotiations for Bill C-2, that is to say pension reform, occurred during that period of time. It included the Government of Alberta which has basically signed on to the amendments.

I thought it was really remarkable that Reform Party members wanted to go back and talk to their constituents now, when I and many of my colleagues had town hall meetings two years ago. When is the Reform Party going to get its act together?

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:25 p.m.

Reform

Gurmant Grewal Reform Surrey Central, BC

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-2 presented a 73% tax hike which is the largest tax hike in Canadian history.

I want to ask members opposite why they had to put closure on this discussion. Why could they not have the courage to come to this House and say let us debate the issue and then go for the increase or decrease or do whatever we have to do? We know from talking to Canadians in all constituencies that they do not want a tax hike. We have to give them tax relief at this time. It is shameful when we give them a 73% tax hike without looking into the situation and what people are representing. It is shameful when the Liberals do not have the courage to debate in the House.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Whelan Liberal Essex, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to participate today in the debate on Bill C-10 that among other things amends the Canada-U.S. tax convention. In particular the bill deals with the manner in which residents of Canada receive U.S. social security and residents of the United States receive Canada pension plan payments and OAS.

This amendment is to change a flaw in the U.S.-Canada tax treaty which was negotiated by the previous government but implemented by our government. It is a flaw that we did not catch at the time and that due to the hard work of many members on this side of the House was brought to the attention of the finance minister who undertook to renegotiate the bill with the U.S. government. And renegotiation takes time. I will explain how that came about, what the flaw was and what we have done to deal with it.

The Canada-U.S. tax treaty sets rates at which Canada or the United States can tax pension benefits, U.S. social security being received in Canada and CPP and OAS being received in the United States.

Before 1996 the country that paid the benefit to a resident of the other country could not tax that benefit at all. The country where the recipient lived would include 50% of that benefit in their taxable income. The other half of the benefit was tax free. Thus people residing in Canada receiving U.S. social security benefits would claim half of that amount on their Canadian tax return as income and other half would be tax free.

In 1996 the tax treaty was changed. Under the new rules the country that pays the benefit, the country that issues the cheque, can tax all of it. The country where the recipient of the cheque lives cannot tax any of it. Therefore Canada would tax CPP payments going to people who live in the United States and the United States would tax U.S. social security benefits going to people who lived in Canada.

Canada ordinarily taxes Canada pension plan and old age security benefits going to non-residents at a rate of 25%. Canada also applies the OAS recovery tax, the clawback on high income earners to non-residents as well. However, to ensure fairness in our tax system, any non-resident can choose to file a Canadian tax return and pay tax at the ordinary Canadian rate rather than at the flat 25%. The result is many low income U.S. recipients pay little or no Canadian tax on their Canadian CPP or OAS. The United States also taxes outbound social security benefits at a rate of 25.5%.

Here is the flaw that escaped us as legislators. The United States tax system does not allow any non-residents to file tax returns unless they are U.S. citizens or resident aliens. There are some of those living in Canada. Therefore the 25% tax is fixed and final to Canadians. There is no recourse for non-American non-residents to file a U.S. return and to be able to pay U.S. tax at a lower rate.

It was at this point in December 1995 that I first realized there was a problem when the United States began withholding 25.5%. At that point myself and the other Windsor MPs contacted the office of the Minister of Finance to explain the problem and to ask that it be addressed. I attended meetings with CASSE, Canadians Asking for Social Security Equality in Windsor, the local Windsor group organized to deal with the problem.

The minister realized the problem. He actually travelled to Windsor in September 1996 to meet with members of the local CASSE committee established to lobby the government to renegotiate this change with the United States government. The Minister of Finance then met with his counterpart in Washington, Mr. Robert Rubin, to negotiate with the United States to reopen the Canada-U.S. tax convention to address this problem.

The proposed new rule included in the latest protocol to the tax treaty will give the country of residence the exclusive right to tax social security benefits. This means only Canada will be able to tax U.S. benefits paid to residents of Canada and vice versa.

Under this change, all low income Canadians that the Reform MPs have been talking about today will pay no tax. This change will retroactively ensure that these low income Canadians will pay less tax than the 25% withheld by the United States.

Once this protocol is ratified, several thousand low income Canadians will no longer pay any income tax. Thousands more will pay less tax than they currently do.

The Reform Party member for Calgary Southeast who spoke this morning raised the issue of fairness by comparing the U.S. rate of taxation on U.S. social security in this proposal. The purpose of Canadian law is not to reflect U.S. tax laws. The purpose of Canadian tax law is to ensure that people living in Canada are all treated equally. The purpose of our tax code is to treat neighbours coast to coast equally, not to treat people who live in Canada and work in the United States the same as they would be treated if they lived in the United States.

There are many non-tax differences between Canada and the United States. For example, a person living in Canada has access to the Canadian universal health care system. If that person lived in the United States he or she would have to pay for health care in many cases. That may not be a tax but it definitely does affect income.

I can speak to that personally because I have an aunt who lives in the United States. I know for a fact that while she was receiving U.S. social security benefits before she was of senior's age she was paying over $350 U.S. a month to a private health care system to ensure that she had health care. When she became ill that very health care system, that wonderful system which the Reform Party thinks is great, cut her off. It was one thing after another, from long term care, to medication, to a co-pay of 30% to 70% every time she had any type of test. The sicker she got the more she had to pay. That is how the system works in the United States with a private benefit system where one pays and continues to pay into it while receiving the benefits.

We should be aware that when seniors living in Canada receiving social security go to the hospital that distinction is not made. They are not asked where their incomes come from or where their taxes are paid. We have always treated all Canadians and those who live in Canada equally.

I believe that the changes will ensure that neighbours are treated equally and fairly, which is why Canada will require the U.S. social security recipients to include 85% of U.S. social security as income when they file their income taxes.

As I stated before, thousands of low income seniors, disabled Canadians and spouses and children of those who work in the United States will pay no tax at all due to this change and thousands more will pay less.

There seems to be some allegation that this change is only about seniors. It is not just about seniors. I want to make that clear to the members of the Reform Party. There are thousands of those who work in the United States. There are children of those who work in the United States and there are disabled Canadians receiving U.S. social security benefits. I can speak to this from my own personal experience.

I have an aunt whose husband worked in the United States and is receiving U.S. social security. They have a disabled child who receives U.S. social security. The benefits from U.S. social security are higher than those she would receive in Canada. This change will directly affect her because she will pay no tax as a disabled Canadian receiving U.S. social security.

However, my aunt, who receives U.S. social security, will pay some tax. She has told me that she believes she should pay her fair share in Canada. She is not one of those high income seniors the Reform Party is speaking on behalf of today. When this proposal was first made in Windsor, people should be aware, the first people I have talked to on CASSE thought it was a good change and a good benefit because low income seniors, disabled persons, children and spouses would get their tax dollars back. When they realized they were in the upper income and they would be paying their fair share in Canada while they lived in Canada, that is when they became opposed to this proposal.

This proposal was negotiated with CASSE. It was put forward before CASSE. When its members first heard the proposal they were in agreement with it until they found out how some of their individual cases or situations would be affected and that they would still pay less tax than their Canadian neighbour. That is what seems to escape the Reform Party in this whole debate today.

Somebody in a high income bracket living in house A receiving U.S. social security and somebody in a high income bracket living in house B receiving the same income but from Canadian sources will pay more tax than the person in house A. If they live in Canada and they all get the same Canadian benefits, they all should pay for the same Canadian benefits. We are still giving that person in house A, the person receiving U.S. social security, a break, a 15% inclusion in their income. We are recognizing that they did pay tax on their U.S. social security benefit.

For the Reform Party to stand up and say that the amount of taxes that one will pay on their U.S. social security benefit equals the amount of benefits they are receiving today is ludicrous. It is very similar to our Canada pension plan system where people receiving pensions today did not pay into the system what they are getting out. The tax they pay in the United States does not equal anything near the amounts they are getting out. The reason they have that exemption in the United States of $27,000 U.S. is because they do not have a universal health care system and because they do not have the same benefits as we have in Canada for many other things.

I agree with the member for Qu'Appelle when he said that the Reform Party speaks for the high income seniors. Those are the people who are complaining about this change. Those are the people who have problems with this change because they may actually come close to paying what their neighbours in the same income bracket will pay. They are still going to get a break. I am not sure that their neighbours in house B would agree that house A should still get that break because we all have to pay for our Canadian system. We all have to pay for our health care system.

Maybe the hon. member for Calgary Southeast should come and visit Windsor and he would understand what happens in the health care system in Windsor. He would recognize what his colleagues in the province of Ontario are doing to the city of Windsor. In fact, what has happened in Windsor had to do with the lowering of taxes by the province of Ontario. That caused the loss of $4.9 billion in revenues to the province with the first tax cut which was funnelled down to the health care system.

When they talk about lowering taxes and tax relief for all Canadians, I think hon. members on the other side should stop and think about the effects of tax relief and look at what has happened in border communities such as Windsor and Essex county, and try to understand the benefits of today's proposal and recognize that low income seniors, the disabled, children and spouses of those who worked in the United States, the majority of whom will be better off if they are in a low income bracket. Many will pay the same but some will pay more. Those are the ones the Reform Party members are speaking for today. Even those who pay more will pay less than their Canadian neighbours. That is something which should not be lost on the House and not lost to all Canadians.

When the Reform Party says there has been no debate, where has it been? I raised this with the Minister of Finance in December 1995 when the changes first took effect. Where were Reform members when the changes were announced on April 9, 1997? Where were they during the rallies in Windsor in 1996? I was there, but I did not see any Reform members. Where have they been throughout the discussion? When exactly did they decide to jump on to the band wagon and offer their own solutions? We have been talking about this and dealing with people in our communities who have been affected.

The members for Windsor and Essex county, the member for Windsor West and Windsor St. Clair and the members for Kent-Essex and Durham and I have worked on this together along with other members on this side of the House.

I have heard from people in my riding in Essex, which is a border community, from seniors with upper incomes and others. They want to pay their fair share. They want to ensure that the Canadian health care system and other social benefits continue for those who are less privileged. The seniors I talked to recognize and appreciate the benefits they have received throughout the years of working and living in Canada. In order to balance the books all Canadians have to participate.

We hear today that this is a hidden tax increase. That is ludicrous. It is not a hidden tax increase. We are talking about treating Canadians equally and fairly and about tax fairness for all Canadians. I believe it is urgent that we deal with this issue today.

I heard the member for Surrey say that we should not end the debate. I would like him to talk with the woman I spoke with on Saturday in my hometown of Amherstburg who has been waiting for this change. I told her that this would be coming before the House on Monday. I will be happy to go back and tell her that the Reform Party thinks we should debate it a little while longer. This lady is one of the low income seniors that they talk so much about, one of those who because of the provincial government has had her housing costs increase by 10%, while we are still trying to get back the 25%. She would like that money back as quickly as possible, not next year or two years from now. She would like it back as soon as this passes in the House and as soon as it is ratified in the U.S. However, if the Reform Party has its way we will be debating this for months to come. We do not have time.

Those low income seniors they speak so highly about do not have time to wait. They have issues facing them right now in their homes and apartments with regard to what they can and cannot afford. They want to know that the tax relief we have promised on April 9, 1997 is coming to them quickly. I want to be able to go back and tell them that this side of the House will ensure they get that money back into their pockets as quickly as possible. They also want to know that they will still have the benefits to which Canadians have become accustomed.

I know that hon. members across the way cannot disagree that low income seniors need that money. Why would they want to delay the debate and suggest that there has not been adequate debate.

I can send them newspaper articles. I can send them letters I have received. I can send them copies of my correspondence if they want to read about it.

They had members in this House in the last two years. They had the opportunity to raise this issue over and over and over again. They had the opportunity to have ample time for debate when they chose what they would talk about on their days of debate in this very House of Commons. Therefore for them to stand up today and say there has been no time for debate I think is a fallacy.

Canadians want to know that these people who are being affected, these 60,000 people who are receiving U.S. social security benefits are going to have the opportunity to get their money back as quickly as possible and that their tax fairness will be restored. Again, I think it should be known that all Canadians want to be treated equally and fairly and all Canadians want to have access to systems.

The people in my riding who are receiving U.S. social security benefits want this resolved as quickly as possible. They want the proposed new rules to come into effect. They understand that it may not be what they thought was the perfect solution. We are not going back to the old system. They knew that from the very first time I met with them. They were told up front that we cannot go back. This is negotiated between two countries. We went too far and now we are going to negotiate back to what is a level of fairness. We took back the taxation to our own country so that there can be that level of fairness in this country.

They knew from the first day that this problem was raised that we were not going back to the old system, that the old system was not fair to their Canadian neighbours receiving Canadian benefits. The old system was not fair to everyone in Canada as well as to those in the United States.

Finally, I want to emphasize one last time the fairness this change will effect. This change will be retroactive for people living in Canada. If they would not have paid any tax in Canada, they will get a full refund. If they would have paid less tax with the U.S. 25% flat rate, they will get a refund of the difference. If they would have paid more than the 25% flat rate that the U.S. withheld, the Canadian government in fairness will not pursue those taxes for those two years.

I want to conclude by saying that the change was a mistake. Once the mistake was recognized, Windsor and Essex county MPs, those from Windsor West, Windsor—St. Clair, Kent—Essex and myself, as well as many other members on this side of the House, particularly the member for Durham, worked very hard to ensure that the Canadian government renegotiated the Canada-U.S. tax treaty as fast as possible and that it would be retroactive to the day this is implemented. Those in need will get that money back. Those who have had to borrow from their friends and families will be able to pay those dollars back. Those living on a tight income will finally see some relief that they need.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:45 p.m.

Reform

Gary Lunn Reform Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member for Essex has recognized there was a problem and that they have attempted to fix it.

I am going to reiterate my earlier comments that this is a tax grab. I will explain to the member why the Minister of Finance is smiling these days. He continues to take bites out of our wallets.

What concerns me the most is that—and I am saying this after the House has been in session for only three or four weeks—the government seems to be stuck on the number 70%. In Bill C-2, the largest single tax grab, they are going to raise the taxes of the working Canadians by 70%. There will be a 70% increase in those premiums, over 70%.

The inclusion rate was 50% in the 1984 protocol which was up until 1995, but now we are going to see that 50% inclusion rate raised to 85%. What does that amount to? A 70% tax increase. This government is stuck on raising our taxes by 70%.

The member for Essex keeps bringing back the rich versus the poor. In Bill C-2 it was the working against the retired. This is not what this is all about. It is about arithmetic and the numbers do not add up. This party stands for the poor, believe me, more than anyone on that side of the House.

There are tax provisions that we wanted to implement. We would have taken people making below $30,000 right off the tax rolls.

We are not suggesting that low income people should pay tax on this at all, by no stretch of the imagination. What we are suggesting will ensure that this will be dealt with fairly and that is not what is being done. It is another tax grab.

I ask them to show us the numbers. The Minister of Finance can show us those numbers. I am sure it is another tax grab by the government.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Whelan Liberal Essex, ON

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the comments of the member opposite and I wondered when he said that it is not an issue of the rich and the low income earners. It is not an issue of the rich and the low income earners. I said very clearly throughout my statement that it is an issue of treating all Canadians equally, Canadians from coast to coast.

We have a tax system in Canada. Our income is placed in the tax system to determine the level of tax that is payable.

The numbers are out there, if the hon. member cares to know. Someone with a $14,000 income or lower will pay no tax. Does he care about those people? I am starting to wonder.

They talk of $30,000 as some magic cut-off. We know what happened in Ontario with the magic tax relief its government gave to people. It took with one hand and it took back with the other. Low income Ontarians are now realizing that the tax relief they thought they were getting is not there. There is no such thing. The moment the teachers go out on strike, the low income people will have to pay for child care. Why will those teachers go out on strike? Because the province of Ontario did not listen to them. Tax relief is not necessarily what it implies.

We are talking about fairness, fairness and equality for all Canadians from coast to coast.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:50 p.m.

Reform

Jason Kenney Reform Calgary Southeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, the remarks of the hon. member for Essex are shameful. She admitted that there was a flaw in the bill which her party voted for.

The Liberals were asked whether this would increase taxes on U.S. social security recipients. I am sure that before the 1997 election they were asked about it. The deputy prime minister said no, that it would be revenue neutral. He misled those people. The government said it would not increase taxes and it did. She asked where we were in 1986. We were right here believing the government when it told us there would not be a tax increase, just as her constituents were.

Why are we opposing this measure today? Precisely because the hon. member for Essex and the other members from Windsor will not represent their constituents. I have a file full of letters from her constituents, letters to the papers in her riding, opposing this bill and this tax grab.

Let me get one thing perfectly clear. The member suggests that we are somehow trying to raise taxes on the lowest income people and trying to drag out debate on this issue to prevent them from getting their cheques. Let me say to her what I said to the hon. member for Durham. We will agree to vote for this bill and pass it right now if the government would agree to our amendment, which we will be proposing, which would treat all social security recipients equally in what they receive in terms of the inclusion rate in the United States.

The proposal we made in the election was to take the bottom one million taxpayers off the tax rolls altogether.

Why will the member not allow those cheques which are now being withheld to be sent out to the low income people while at the same time reduce the inclusion rate to what it was in 1995?

Does she deny that Bill C-10 will increase federal revenues?

Why is it falling on me to represent her constituents? Shame on her. Shame on the government.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Whelan Liberal Essex, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like the hon. member for Calgary Southeast to know that I do represent my constituents. I represent the majority of my constituents. And the majority of my constituents who are low income earners have told me that they accept this change. They want this change and they want it now.

If the Reform Party wants to be led by the special interest groups and the high income seniors, go right ahead. I will go to sleep at night knowing that I represent the majority of my constituents. I represent all of my constituents, not just those receiving U.S. social security. All of my constituents want to pay equal taxes. Not just those receiving U.S. social security should get a break.

The hon. member should know that when the deputy prime minister made that statement he asked a very specific question. The question to the finance department was based on those who were paying income tax. However, there was a group of numbers that was missing. We have recognized that error. There was no misleading in any election campaign. The statement was made after the campaign. The member should know that as soon as we recognized that error, and we have recognized it, we began negotiations with the United States to make that change. That is why we are here today. It is to make that change.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Ken Epp Reform Elk Island, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that prior to this bill being passed, that is under the rules that are now in place, 50% of the security income was taxed and now 85% of that income is going to be taxed. If we are going to tax a greater proportion of the income, it seems to me that will result in a tax increase. I would like the member to explain if that is not so, how that would come about.

My second question is with respect to the retroactivity. The government claims that its bill is going to be retroactive. I would like to know what specific procedures are going to be followed to make sure under the retroactive rules that those who have paid taxes will no longer be accountable for how they will get their refunds or rebates and how they will be looked after.

These are two very serious questions and I would appreciate a response.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Whelan Liberal Essex, ON

Mr. Speaker, first and foremost I have never said that all people receiving U.S. social security will pay less tax. I have acknowledged from the very beginning that low income Canadians receiving U.S. social security will be better off under this change. I have acknowledged since the very beginning that those in the upper end who are including 85% of their income will probably pay, or some will pay, more tax. However they will still pay less tax than their Canadian neighbour with the same income level.

I have also been working very closely with the finance department to ensure that this process will happen quickly once this is passed in our House and in the United States to ensure that those people who need to get refunds and who are entitled to refunds will get them in a very timely fashion. It is my understanding that the process is in place the moment the legislation is passed in both houses.

Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997Government Orders

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

As it is almost two o'clock we will proceed to Statements by Members.

Bus AccidentStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Rick Casson Reform Lethbridge, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise today on behalf of all Canadians to reach out to the citizens of St. Bernard-de-Beauce in Quebec. The families and friends affected by the tragic bus crash have been in the thoughts and prayers of all Canadians.

It is imperative that safety concerns be immediately addressed and it is encouraging to see the Quebec government is doing just that. This is of little consolation to the deep pain and sadness engulfing the community of St. Bernard-de-Beauce but if stronger safety standards can avert another disastrous accident, they must be implemented.

The families of the 43 victims of the accident will need time to heal from their terrible loss.

Mr. Speaker, I ask for a moment of silence to pay our respects to those lost in this tragic accident and to those whose reserves of courage are desperately needed at a time like this.

Small BusinessStatements By Members

October 20th, 1997 / 1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Sarmite Bulte Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

Mr. Speaker, this week is Small Business Week.

Small business is the engine of our economy. Today in Canada there are more than 2.4 million small businesses generating over 40% of Canada's economic output. Small business employs over 44% of the labour force.

As a founding member of the Women Entrepreneurs of Canada and as a member of Les Femmes Chefs d'Entreprises Mondiales, I believe it is important that we acknowledge that a large majority of successful small businesses in Canada are women owned.

The success of Canada in the global marketplace requires that we support the growth of small business, and the government is doing just that.

The student connection program and Strategis are two initiatives that Industry Canada has undertaken to help small business make the most of the new technologies of the Internet.

Partnership between government and small business creates a fertile environment for innovation and entrepreneurship, the winning formula for Canada's continued economic success.

Stratford In BloomStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

John Richardson Liberal Perth—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise on behalf of the people in the riding of Perth—Middlesex. I am honoured to pay tribute to the city of Stratford.

This month the home of the Stratford Festival competed in an international competition in Madrid called Nations in Bloom. Cities from Italy, England, Ireland, the Netherlands and the United States were invited to compete against one another to achieve the status of the most beautiful city in the world.

The competition is designed to highlight good urban landscaping, to encourage investment in city improvements, to promote international standards and to celebrate excellence in quality of life.

I am proud to inform the House that our own Stratford has been named the most beautiful city in the 10,000 to 50,000 population category.

Stratford was in tough competition. The finalists were Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario, Botany Bay, Australia, St. Bruno, Quebec and Fairhope, Alabama. Stratford's finish is certainly impressive. What is more impressive is that three of the five finalists were Canadian cities, proving that Canada is the best and most beautiful country in the world.

Land MinesStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Janko Peric Liberal Cambridge, ON

Mr. Speaker, prior to my election to the House of Commons in 1993, I spent 25 years as a member of the Canadian auto workers union.

I was pleasantly surprised to read a recent article in the Globe and Mail announcing that the CAW had offered $1.25 million for the removal of land mines in Mozambique.

Having just returned from Bosnia-Hercegovina where I was an election observer, I can say land mines have had a devastating affect on many innocent civilians in that region.

I would like to compliment my union brothers and sisters on this honourable initiative and I encourage other such organizations to be as proactive.

StrategisStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Walt Lastewka Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Mr. Speaker, this past summer Strategis went platinum. Over one million Canadians have opened the door to the government's online business information source.

In fact, Strategis has become one of the top 4% of the busiest Internet sites in the world. Industry Canada is working to bring even more Canadian businesses in touch with Canada's largest business site through the student connection program.

Under the student connection program college and university students show business people how to use the Internet and make the most of new technologies like Strategis.

This being Canada's national science and technology week, it is fitting to promote the proactive work the government is doing to help businesses. Together we are working to ensure Canadian businesses are on the leading edge of information and technology and are ready for business in the 21st century.

HealthStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Reform

Grant Hill Reform Macleod, AB

Mr. Speaker, some people say that all Canadians are apathetic. Today I have an example that proves this is not true.

Kevin Crigger believes that natural supplements are too important to let bureaucrats artificially remove them from the shelves in Canada. He walked all the way from Dryden, Ontario to Ottawa for that issue. Thirteen hundred kilometres of blisters on his feet tell me whether he thinks this issue is important.

He is typical of many young Canadians who say that bureaucrats shall not be the ones who control health supplements in Canada without good reason. He knows that an informed consumer is a far better judge of our health care needs than some distant bureaucrat in Ottawa.

Kevin is in the gallery today. I salute him for his fortitude, his dedication and for his willingness to speak out.

PovertyStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Judi Longfield Liberal Whitby—Ajax, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise before Parliament today to pay tribute to the United Nations Association in Canada and to commend it for promoting the international day for the eradication of poverty.

The Government of Canada takes poverty very seriously. The new national child benefit system and the announcement in the Speech from the Throne that we will double our additional investment in this initiative for Canadian children are reflections of our commitment to eradicate the conditions among our youngest citizens that can lead to lives of deprivation and despair.

From our earliest days as a nation, Canadians have always understood that ensuring our mutual welfare is critical to the survival of the country. We have consistently responded with compassion.

Today in this country we are being called on to wage a battle against child poverty and I have every confidence that Canadians will rally to the call.

The international day for the eradication of poverty is a time to rededicate ourselves to this crucial cause. I urge all members of the House to help ensure a brighter future for Canada by working with this government to take steps to eradicate poverty

Governor General's AwardsStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Mr. Speaker, I was proud to attend the 1997 Governor General's Awards in commemoration of the Persons case earlier today. The awards are given annually to individuals who have made an outstanding contribution toward promoting the equality of women in Canada.

The awards were established in 1979 to commemorate the lengthy legal and political battle by five Alberta women for Canadian women's constitutional right to be recognized as persons. On October 18, 1929 the British privy council declared Canadian women to be persons.

The recipients of this year's award are Dr. Marguerite Ritchie from Ottawa, Ontario; Hedwidge Landry from Caraquet, New Brunswick; Sheila Genaille from Edmonton, Alberta; Dr. Margaret Fulton, Salt Spring Island, British Columbia; and my friend Nancyruth from Toronto, Ontario. I know my colleagues in this House and all Canadians join me in congratulating the Famous Five of 1997.

Lieutenant-Colonel John McCraeStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Reform

Peter Goldring Reform Edmonton East, AB

Mr. Speaker, national treasures ought not be marketed to the highest bidder. They belong in our nation's museums for public viewing and contemplation.

Few examples of inspirational significance have been born by the horror of human conflict. “In Flanders Fields” is one. The author, Lieutenant-Colonel John McCrae, penned this poem in the thick of battle 82 years ago. Now his medals, the recognition of his heroism and symbols of his service to Canada whilst he moulded these words, are on the auction block. Why?

As the poem says if ye break faith with us who die, we shall not sleep. The House should listen to these words.