Debates of Oct. 28th, 1997

Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his remarks and his concerns.

In December 1993, DIAND published an information package on the Mackenzie Valley resources management bill. The package was announced in the northern media in January 1994 and distributed to all first nations in the Mackenzie Valley, other pertinent aboriginal and non-aboriginal groups, communities, industries, federal and territorial government departments.

In June 1994, DIAND officials met in Calgary with the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, CAPP, and with the Canadian Energy Pipeline Association, CEPA; in May 1995 in Calgary again with CAPP and CEPA; in June 1995 in Vancouver with the Canadian Mining Association and Northwest Territories Chamber of Mines; in August 1996 again with CAPP and CEPA; in April and September 1997 with the Northwest Territories Chamber of Mines.

Does the member feel the government has an obligation to the Gwich'in and Sahtu regarding their land claims?

[Darrel Stinson, Reform, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yes, it does have an obligation. It also has an obligation to everybody and to listen to everybody. That is what the House is supposed to be for.

If the member reads through his notes he will quickly realize that the DIAND information session in September 1997 raised many questions that were left unanswered. The ones that were answered were answered with uncertainty, often with the wording that such matters would be settled in court. If legal recourse is the only way to settle matters, it is time to amend the legislation. The hon. member should be aware of that.

We have to look at all of it before we go ahead and just pass legislation. Just because part of it is right does not make the whole right. Why would we pass something that is 50% good and 50% bad? Why would we pass anything that has anything bad in it? It should be 100% good if at all possible. That is good legislation.

Good legislation is not having to go back 10 years from now and having to amend something that we put into place in the House.

[Werner Schmidt, Reform, Kelowna, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I was rather interested in my colleague's comments.

The member referred a bit to the previous speaker, the hon. secretary of state of the Liberal Party. Implicit in her remarks was efficiency. I remember my colleague stating rather correctly that there was an impediment to the establishment of exploration companies and so on. Implicit in the other comments was that this would expedite, make better and make more efficient the decision making process.

Could the member comment briefly on exactly how the creation of four to seven boards—and it is not quite clear how many there will be—would actually expedite and make more efficient the decision making process and thereby make it a more profitable venture?

[Darrel Stinson, Reform, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, at least three new boards will be created. There is absolutely no way that will speed anything up. We all know what happens when we get tied down in bureaucratic red tape.

I sat on the natural resources committee. We looked for a one window shop. Now we have created more than that. We have created more legislation, more red tape, and more headaches for exploration and development in that area in particular and in land management. More bureaucracy is exactly what we are creating. Instead of trying to make something smaller and more simple we are now expanding to make it more complex and more frustrating for everybody trying to do business.

[Werner Schmidt, Reform, Kelowna, BC]

Will it cost more tax dollars?

[Darrel Stinson, Reform, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It will definitely cost more tax dollars. There is absolutely no doubt about that. It will cost a fair amount in more tax dollars for more uncertainty. That is exactly what we are doing.

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am very interested in the recent exchange between my colleagues from Kelowna and Okanagan—Shuswap. I have a couple of questions for the hon. member for Okanagan—Shuswap.

I am a bit confused. If we have worked on these problems for so long we do not want to pass something that is not right. We want something that is simple and that natural resources will understand. We want a lot of things out of the legislation we will obviously not get. We need something that can be worked with, something that is balanced and something that is fair.

I do not think my hon. colleague can have it both ways. There is no way he will be right 100% of the time. We all know that.

I ask the member to explain the term under-resourced, another word that puzzles me. He used that term in his speech. He said something about conditions in the north or development being under-resourced. Could I have an explanation?

[Darrel Stinson, Reform, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will answer the last question first. When we put these boards into place we had to be very aware that it would cost taxpayers a lot more money. It is under-resourced to handle this issue at this point in time. There is absolutely no doubt about that. Taxpayers will have to pick up that cost and we have to remember that.

As for being right 100% of the time, no. I do not think anybody in the House has ever been right 100% of the time, at least no member who is still living. I am not sure about those who have passed away. I have read many times in their speeches that they absolutely thought they were right 100% of the time, and the rest of us have had to suffer for their decisions.

One reason I am here is to make sure those who think they are right 100% of the time take a second look and maybe even a third look, a sober sincere look.

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to address the House on Bill C-6, the Mackenzie Valley resource management act. I am pleased to join my hon. colleagues, the secretary of state and the parliamentary secretary, in speaking in support of the legislation.

I will explain the roles and responsibilities of the new boards the bill establishes and how they will bring decision making to the residents of the Mackenzie Valley.

Bill C-6 will establish a total of six new boards, two of which will have jurisdiction throughout the Mackenzie Valley. The other four boards will be regional institutions, two in the Gwich'in settlement area and two in the Sahtu settlement area.

Under Bill C-6 each of the Gwich'in and Sahtu settlement areas will have a regional land use planning board composed of two nominees from the aboriginal beneficiary group, two from government and a chairperson. Support services will be provided by a small technical and administrative staff.

This board will be responsible for land use planning for all lands and waters within the settlement area, except for lands in national parks or within the boundaries of a local government. As the parliamentary secretary has stated, the purpose of this planning will be to protect and promote the social, cultural and economic well-being of the residents of the settlement area.

Aboriginal organizations, governments and the general public in each settlement area will have an opportunity to comment on draft land use plans or any proposed changes to the plan. The plan must be approved by the affected aboriginal group and the federal and territorial governments. It will be reviewed every five years.

The land and water authorities in the settlement area will conduct their operations according to the approved plan. Each board will monitor the implementation of its land use plan and will determine whether development proposals conform with it.

From time to time these regional land use planning boards may participate in co-operative planning exercises with similar institutions in adjacent areas. Of course, it is hoped that eventually the Dogrib, the Deh Cho and the other Treaty 8 areas of the Mackenzie Valley will become part of this overall picture.

A regional land and water board will also operate in each of the settlement areas. These boards will consist of five members: two from government, two from the aboriginal beneficiary group and a chairperson.

The regional land and water boards will issue, amend or renew land use permits and water licences for all lands and waters in the settlement area, except where these powers are already exercised by a local government. Support will be provided by a small technical and administrative staff.

These boards will not issue licences or permits for projects that are not compatible with the land use plan for the settlement area. As well, proposals must have been subjected to an environmental impact assessment before a licence or permit will be issued. This permitting and licensing process takes into account certain protection and guarantees for waters that lie on or flow through settlement areas granted by the Gwich'in, Sahtu Dene and Metis land claim agreements.

Bill C-6 also includes provisions for inspections, for fines and for prison terms for persons who contravene any regulations made under this legislation or who fail to comply with the terms of a permit. The board may also order that compensation be provided to a First Nation with a claim agreement for any substantial change in the quality, quantity or rate of flow of waters through or adjacent to the settlement lands of the First Nation.

This bill obviously takes an ecosystem approach to this problem, similar to that which we have in conservation areas of other provinces.

In looking beyond the settlement areas, of which there are five, these regional land claim agreements foresaw the need for a co-ordinated system of resource regulation throughout the Mackenzie Valley. Toward this end, Bill C-6 will authorize the governor in council to establish the Mackenzie Valley land and water board to promote co-ordination and consistency in the regional permitting and licensing process.

This valley-wide board will deal with issues or projects whose impacts may cross settlement areas or will be outside settlement areas. Special panels may be established for this purpose. The land and water board of each settlement area will become a permanent panel of the larger valley-wide board.

The sixth board which will be established under Bill C-6, the environmental impact review board, will also exercise jurisdiction over the entire valley. This board will be located in Yellowknife and will have up to 11 members, including a chairperson. It will have equal nominees from government and aboriginal groups, including at least one member from each of the Gwich'in and Sahtu organizations.

The environmental impact review board will assess and, where necessary, publicly review all development proposals in the Mackenzie Valley. Based on these assessments and reviews, the board will recommend rejection or approval of projects to the minister. Its members will be supported by a small environmental and administrative staff.

The objective of the board is clear: to ensure that the environmental impacts of development proposals in the valley receive careful consideration before actions are taken. The board will also ensure that these development proposals do not cause significant adverse affects outside the valley. It will ensure aboriginal organizations, government and the public have the opportunity to express their concerns during the assessment and review process.

Bill C-6 stipulates that preliminary screening, assessments and reviews of development proposals are to be carried out in a timely and expeditious manner. As an initial step, all proposals will be screened to determined whether an assessment is required. The assessment will determine whether a full scale review is required. It should be noted that the minister may order that a review be undertaken even if the board decides it is not necessary.

When a review is undertaken, the review panel must have at least three members. Aboriginal people will have guaranteed representation on the review board when the proposal is within a claim settlement area.

Once an environment review has been completed under Bill C-6, the minister has a number of options. The minister may accept the recommendations of the review panel; refer the recommendations back to the panel for further consideration; accept the recommendations, with modifications, or reject them.

The minister's decision on how to proceed with the board's recommendations may be augmented by information that was not before the review panel or on matters of public interest not considered by the review board. Once a decision has been made, it will be implemented by the appropriate regulatory authorities.

These boards establish a comprehensive system of checks and balances for resource management in the Mackenzie Valley area. They do this while meeting the spirit of the recommendations on co-management put forward by the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples.

Having mentioned that document, I want to review with all members the four principle bases on which the commission says we must deal in the future with aboriginal people. Those principles are recognition, respect, sharing and responsibility.

In pursuing Bill C-6 we will find that the original inhabitants of this part of Canada and the north have been recognized and have been dealt with as partners. They have been dealt with with respect by their required appointment to these various boards and by the rights they have negotiated under land claim agreements. They are sharing with us in the co-management of development and resources. We are saying to them “You have major responsibilities in this area to protect not only your settlement area but the whole of the Mackenzie Valley resource, be it natural or human or aesthetic”.

I have letters from the Premier of the Government of the North West Territories, Don Morin, approving and supporting Bill C-6. I have letters from the Gwich'in Tribal Council and its president, Willard Hagen, a letter from the Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated from the president, Larry Tourangeau, a letter from the president of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers and a letter from the Canadian Energy Pipeline Association all approving Bill C-6.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-6 is partially in response to those who wanted resources management in the north to be accessible to northerners. This is a more open, visible and locally responsible form of managing resources.

Having original panels of a board with meetings and hearings held in regions is expected to be more cost effective than holding meetings in Yellowknife. In this integrated system, the developer will apply for land and water authorization in only one place. If the development is wholly within a settlement area, the developer will obtain the authorization from the original panel.

My question is the following. Does the member feel that the creation of a regional land and water panel and a valley-wide board is a duplication or an increase in bureaucracy?

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question from the parliamentary secretary, although I only heard about one-third of it. I think he said something about the number of panels. I explained that there were six. Of course, when we get the other settlement areas there will have to be another two panels for each one. I do not know how we can get away from panels if we are going to share responsibility and get input from the people who care about the place they live, about its future and its development.

I do not know if I have answered the parliamentary secretary's question, but that is my point of view.

[The Speaker]

We will return to the debate after question period. It being almost 2 p.m., we will now proceed to statements by members.

Aboriginal Peoples

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, what has institutionalized apartheid created in Canada? An infant mortality rate 1.7 times higher than the rest of the population, a tuberculosis rate 7 times higher than anybody else, a youth suicide rate 8 times higher and an environment where sexual abuse is rampant.

The Government of Canada is directly responsible for this by creating separate developments and an institutionalized welfare state among aboriginal people that would rot the soul of anyone. It has kept the boot on the throats of aboriginal people, preventing them from integrating into Canadian society and becoming self-sufficient.

Endless reports from the auditor general to the royal commission have all condemned the government for pursuing courses that have simply failed.

This will not end until aboriginal people have the responsibility and power to manage their own affairs, just as it is for the rest of Canada. The government must stop the separate development of aboriginal people, stop apartheid in Canada—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Scarborough East.

Wilber Sutherland

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on September 3, Canada lost a great visionary in the person of Wilber Sutherland. He had a great gift for bringing people together so that they could express themselves in creative ways.

One of his projects was the national ad hoc interfaith working group's preamble to the Constitution, which reads in part:

We affirm that our country is founded upon principles that acknowledge the supremacy of God, the dignity of each person, the importance of family and the value of community.

We recognize that we remain free only when freedom is founded upon respect for moral and spiritual values and the rule of law in the service of justice.

Wilber is up for a nomination of an Order of Canada. I am hopeful that his name will be considered favourably.

Breast Cancer

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, throughout the month that is now coming to an end, a number of public events have been held to make people aware of the plight of over one million Canadian and Quebec women who have breast cancer.

I remind the House and the public that breast cancer does not strike only in October; but hits thousands of women every minute of every hour of every day, throughout the year.

For example, in 1997, over 18,000 women will develop breast cancer. One woman in nine will be diagnosed with the disease. Over 5,000 of them will die, including 15 today, in spite of all the efforts made in recent years.

Research and prevention are the keys to a better understanding of how to treat breast cancer. I urge the government to keep this is mind.

Hillowe'En

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton West—Mississauga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this afternoon the attention of this House will be diverted by a much stickier matter. I am sure that every member is aware of what awaits them this evening, the fourth annual confectionery caucus Hallowe'en party.

Hillowe'en provides an opportunity for Canada's value added confectionery manufacturers to display their products and raise awareness about this century old Canadian industry's contribution to our economy.

As a member of the confectionery caucus, I am proud to be associated with an industry that supports the direct employment of over 7,000 Canadians and generates over $1.6 billion in factory sales annually.

My riding of Brampton West—Mississauga is home to one of Canada's largest confectionery manufacturers, Hershey, which employs 1,600 people across Canada.

Please join the members of the confectionery caucus, the Manufacturers' Association of Canada and me for an evening of fun and sweets.

[The Speaker]

I understand that's going to be a Hill of a party.

Mississauga Fire And Emergency Services

[Steve Mahoney, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I bring to the attention of members that last month the Mississauga Fire and Emergency Services won first place in the overall competition at the 14th annual international auto extraction competition held in Vancouver.

Twenty-five teams representing Canada, the United States, England and Australia, to name just a few, took part in this three-day event. The two series of tests consisted in freeing dummies from wrecked vehicles with hydraulic equipment and portable tools.

The Mississauga team won the competition with the fastest reaction times.

I wish to take advantage of this week's annual meeting of the International Association of Firefighters to extend congratulations to the Mississauga extraction team on a job well done.

Cavalier Textiles

[Claude Drouin, Liberal, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to mention that Cavalier Textiles is the main supplier of specialized spun yarn and strands in Canada.

The company develops, produces and markets a full range of synthetic yarn and cotton products considered to be the best on the market. The company is reaffirming its leadership by investing $14.7 million to modernize its four Quebec plants in Sherbrooke, Drummondville, Montmagny and Saint-Georges de Beauce.

As part of this investment, the Canadian and Quebec governments will grant a refundable loan of $2,868,000 under the Canada-Quebec subsidiary agreement on industrial development. The loan will allow Cavalier Textiles to speed up its own investments, which will result in the creation of close to 50 new jobs, while preserving existing jobs.

This is yet another illustration that there is strength in unity and that, together, Quebec and Canada can help our businesses.

Justice

[Gary Lunn, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to commend Victoria provincial court judge Brian MacKenzie.

Last Friday Judge MacKenzie sent a clear message to individuals breaking into homes in greater Victoria. He sentenced Raymond Caziere to seven years in jail for breaking into the home of Elizabeth Kitchen and terrorizing the 73-year old with a butcher knife. He gave Caziere a further two years for a total of nine years for other crimes he committed.

Judge MacKenzie's ruling clearly puts the interests of victims first. The nine year sentence is longer than most people get for manslaughter. Judge MacKenzie is sending a message to predators such as Caziere that Canadians are no longer going to tolerate this type of action.

Most important, I would like to encourage the Minister of Justice to follow Judge MacKenzie's lead and start getting serious about punishing criminals. Three cheers for Judge MacKenzie.

Cametoid Advanced Technologies Limited

[Judi Longfield, Liberal, Whitby—Ajax, ON]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I had the honour to announce a repayable loan investment of $450,000 through Technology Partnerships Canada to Cametoid Advanced Technologies Limited, a company in my riding.

Cametoid is a world leader in the development of protective coatings for the aerospace industry and this investment will help Cametoid move forward and develop new technologies that will enhance Canada's capabilities in this very important area.

Developing advanced technologies is one of the goals the federal government has identified for Technology Partnerships Canada, creating meaningful employment is another. Once the project has been successfully completed and the firm moves to full commercialization it is expected that about 17 new direct jobs as well as 10 to 20 indirect jobs will be created in my riding.

With creative partnerships like this one with Cametoid this government is helping to build the kind of economic development that we need in the coming century. We are developing the foundation—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Vancouver Kingsway.

Arthur Lee

[Sophia Leung, Liberal, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Arthur Lee, a Chinese Canadian, donated $400,000 to purchase John McCrae's medals.

Mr. Lee believes it was his duty as a Canadian to make a contribution to his adopted country, Canada. What a noble expression to show his love and appreciation to Canada.

I wish to point out to my opposition colleagues that many Asian immigrants have made special contributions to Canada like Mr. Lee. They built the railway for Canada and they defended Canada in the wars. Today many Asian immigrants contribute to our economic growth and social development in Canada.

I wish to recognize their special contributions like those of Mr. Lee.

Justice

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a man sexually assaulted his step-daughter for 12 years beginning when she was a child. An impaired driver killed his friend. A woman tried to hire someone to kill her daughter. A British Columbia man was convicted of abducting and sodomizing a single mother.

None of these criminals served time in jail. Why? Because of the Liberals' conditional sentencing law. In case after case violent criminals are being freed by the courts of this country to walk our streets.

This is wrong. It is an injustice in the eyes of victims and Canadians all across this country, and it is an injustice in the eyes of crown prosecutors.

In Alberta, B.C. and Ontario case after case involving conditional sentencing is being appealed by the crown. If the justice minister would simply amend the law limiting the use of conditional sentencing to non-violent offences the Liberals would not once again find their legislation under attack in the courts and our justice system would not be held in contempt by a growing number of Canadians.