Debates of Nov. 3rd, 1997

Deficit Reduction

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the member knows very well that there was a two-year gap between our first expenditure reductions and the reductions in transfers to the provinces. The member knows very well that tax points have to be considered and that the federal cuts have been much deeper than the provincial cuts.

He knows very well also that since we took office, we have reduced employment insurance premiums every year. He knows also that we have invested a lot of money in research and development, in job creation and in young people and that we will continue to make investments for the future of Canadians.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is not the issue. The issue is that the Minister of Finance has taken $35 billion from the pockets of the less privileged and that his own efforts to reduce spending in his own department amount to about $2.4 billion. That is the real issue, and I am using his own figures. He should answer the question instead of trying to evade it.

My second question is this: How can the minister say that he has done his job properly when in fact he has confiscated $35 billion from the provinces, from the unemployed and from retirement funds, when he himself has only reduced spending by $2.4 billion?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the member knows very well that these numbers are completely wrong. One thing that is clear, however, is that the province of Quebec has cut transfers to its municipalities by 6% compared to our 3% cut to provincial transfers, that is to say, Quebec has cut transfers to municipalities by twice as much as we cut transfers to the provinces.

Government Spending

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in a poll released this weekend a majority of Canadians said no to new spending after the budget is balanced, but nearly half said their top priority is to pay down the debt, while a third said it was tax relief.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Does he agree with Canadians that any future surplus should be directed to debt reduction and tax relief and not to new spending?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is from Alberta. I would have thought that he would have taken note of the Alberta growth summit in which Albertans said that their priorities were exactly the same as the government's, that is to say health care and education.

Yes, we have made it very clear that we do intend to reduce the debt. In fact in the last six or seven months we have reduced close to $13 billion of marketable debt.

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in the same poll a whole 7% of Albertans said they want new spending from this government which is planning to spend half of the future surplus on new spending. In fact more than half of those surveyed said they are worried that this government is going to get us back into a deficit situation again through new spending. This government promised in the throne speech 29 new spending programs and not a single tax cut.

Will the Minister of Finance admit that he has misread public opinion? Will he agree to give Canadians the tax relief they are demanding today?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, we already began to provide tax relief of over $2 billion over a three year period in the last budget.

What Canadians have made very clear is that they do not want to see tax cuts paid for by a $3 billion reduction in old age pensions which is in the Reform platform, or from a $3.5 billion cut to health care which is in the Reform platform. Canadians do not want to see the social programs of this country gutted and eviscerated by a Reform Party which has no idea of what it is that makes this country work.

Foreign Investments

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister for International Trade.

Since 1995, OECD member countries, including Canada, have been negotiating a multilateral agreement on investment, aimed at clarifying the rules governing foreign investments.

Can the government assure us that the future agreement will include adequate clauses to prevent countries from lowering their environmental protection and labour standards in the hope of attracting foreign investments?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the whole goal of the negotiations for an MAI is to set clear rules, clear regulations and above all, the highest standards possible that will govern both investment into Canada as well as outward investment across the world.

What we want to avoid certainly from our country's perspective is that investment flows to the lowest standards in the developing world. That is why I have been saying that after the OECD we must transfer the whole issue of negotiating a multilateral agreement on investment to the WTO so that we can standardize business in the third world as well.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let me try again and see if I can get a clearer answer.

Will the government also pledge to ensure that cultural protection measures included in the agreement will be negotiated in a manner satisfactory to Quebec and Canadian cultural groups?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, I thought I made myself crystal clear in the first answer. I hope the member was listening because we also said many times that as far as culture is concerned, Canadian culture is off the table at the MAI.

National Defence

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, access to information documents reveal the pathetic state of our helicopter fleet. In the last three years alone there have been 6 accidents, 256 separate incidents, 48 injuries and 2 deaths. The Labradors and Sea Kings need to be replaced now.

Will the minister of defence continue to delay and dance with disaster or will he show that he really does care and announce a delivery date today?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we really do care. That is why we want to make sure that we get the proper helicopters that are going to meet the operational needs for those fine dedicated men and women who go out and conduct rescues under some very trying circumstances. We are very close to doing that.

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of defence promised that he would have an announcement before the end of September. It is now December and there has been no announcement. It has been four years. What is the hold-up? Why can the government not make up its mind on replacing the helicopters?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, one of the problems hon. members opposite have is their research. They do not even know what month they are in.

We certainly want to make that decision as quickly as possible. We want to make sure we get the best value for the taxpayers' money. We want to make sure that we provide equipment that is going to be the best operational equipment for the people in the Canadian forces who conduct 1,000 search and rescue missions a year.

Algeria

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Algeria is sinking into anarchy and chaos, before the eyes of a powerless international community. But, increasingly, we hear voices saying we must not remain indifferent to this tragedy. These voices include a coalition of religious and union organizations, including Mr. Allmand's group.

Is the Canadian government prepared to follow up on that coalition's request to establish a commission of inquiry or, contrary to what it is doing in the area of land mines, is it not going to stick its neck out?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I share the hon. member's grave concern about the situation in Algeria.

I had several discussions with Algeria's foreign affairs officials to inform them of the great concern of Canadians and to develop a program. I also promised to meet with interested groups, and I hope such meeting will take place soon.

Land Mines

[Jacques Saada, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

We are now one month away from the Ottawa conference on the elimination of land mines. Given the extremely powerful leadership role Canada has taken in this regard, I would like to know what specific measures are being taken, both for the conference itself and in terms of post-conference follow-up?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is very important that we work very hard to get as many countries as possible to come to Ottawa next month. More than 100 are coming now. The Prime Minister was able to recruit others last week at the Commonwealth conference. He will be at the francophone meetings next week, and I am going to the Middle East to undertake a campaign to get more countries to come.

It is also very important to enlist the entire House of Commons and the Senate in trying to ratify the treaty at the same time as we sign it. That would be a very important signal to the leadership of Canada. Clearly we must begin dedicating serious resources to the implementation of the treaty.

Passports

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this spring two men were charged with the possession of stolen passports. This past weekend we had 25 blank passports produced by a secure printer in Ottawa.

Does the minister know about this? Does the minister care about this? What is the minister going to do about this?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I know about it because I was the one who informed the security forces that they could start investigating the matter.

I was a little ahead of the hon. member. He is only about six months late in asking the question. Not only did he not get his research right, he seems to be out of date in his questions.

It is now being investigated actively and the problem will be properly handled by the police authorities.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the member has had six months to do something about it. Last month he assured us that passport security was going to be taken care of. Now we find passports being used as currency in the drug trade.

How many more of these kinds of scandals must we have before the minister does something about our passports?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member is engaged in a little sleight of hand.

The question we faced last month was the use of forged passports. It had nothing to do with this incident. People forged Canadian passports.

On the second issue, when we found out there was a security breach, we asked for an investigation. The police have it in hand. We can do no more than make sure those who have undertaken that are properly charged.

Education

[Bev Desjarlais, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Mr. Speaker, last week the industry minister warned that companies are leaving Canada because of a shortage of skilled workers, yet the finance minister claims to be doing more for higher education than any other government. A human resources development department study suggests tuition fees are so high they are deterring potential students.

Will the government explain why it is actuality deterring potential students and driving jobs out of the country when it claims to be doing so much for education?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, this is absolutely wrong. We are working very hard these days talking with lenders, talking with the provinces, and talking with student associations. We are well aware of the problem many students have in being able to borrow money. We are addressing the situation by talking with everyone that has a say in the matter.

We need an accurate and helpful solution, not just this kind of statement that does not make any sense.