Debates of Dec. 2nd, 1997

The Environment

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, at least the Tories had a position. The Reform has no position at all.

At least the government and most of the parties in the House believe that the earth is not flat any more, that there is a globe, that there are international problems, and that we live in the 21st century and not the 9th century.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is not just Ottawa where we have trouble. Kyoto is getting us into a lot of trouble too.

The environment minister said that she wants to regulate radically our cars, our homes and every industry in the country, but she has not once addressed the problem of how much it will cost.

The government wants us to turn the economic clock back to 1990 and then cut 5% deeper than that. Yet it has not estimated how many jobs may be lost in the process.

Could the Prime Minister tell me why the government is so afraid to talk about the cost involved in its kamikaze flight to Kyoto?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have a very reasonable position. It is difficult. Some say we are going too far. Some say we are not going far enough. That is exactly what happens in Canada all the time. We are a very reasonable country, with a very balanced view of things.

We think there is a problem around the world but I know the Reform Party only has some financial interests to protect.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister talks about a very balanced position. In fact the Liberals have come up with three balanced positions. It is a hat trick to Kyoto and I do not think they should be proud of it.

They do not have a plan to pay for the Kyoto deal. They do not have a plan to implement the deal. They do not have a plan to get the provinces onside and they have already been balking, especially Alberta and Saskatchewan.

The only plan the Liberals have worked out is to make sure that the photo ops are there, that they smile and look like they really care about the environment.

Let me ask the Prime Minister this question. How in the world could Canadians trust this government that says this week sign now and pay later? How much?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, Canadian people are aware that there is a very responsible government in Canada. It is a government that realizes we have a problem and that to put our heads in the sand will not cure the problem of climate change in the world.

In the past we have seen some very bad judgment by people who did not want to change anything at all. They made some terrible mistakes. That is not what this government will do.

This government believes there is an international problem that needs some attention. The other parties in the House of Commons have positions on the matter but the Reform Party only has its interests.

Language Policy

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Richelieu, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the latest Statistics Canada census figures, released this morning, confirm that French has lost considerable ground.

The percentage of people speaking French in the home has dropped to below 3% outside Quebec. Everywhere in Canada, with the exception of the Yukon, the proportion of francophones has decreased.

In light of the figures published today, does the Minister of Canadian Heritage see how badly the federal government's language policy has failed?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I think one thing is important: looking at the 1996 census, we see right off that the use of French in Canada has increased, which is good news. The greatest increase, of course, has been in the province of Quebec.

As we are already doing with the minority language program, we wish to maintain recognition of the French language as equal to English, through such actions as supporting TVO's French language broadcasting. Programming must be available in French throughout the country and we hope this will continue.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Richelieu, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the rate of francophone assimilation has increased, confirming the Bloc Quebecois' fears. The number of people speaking French in the home has even dropped by 57,400 since the Official Languages Act was passed.

Does the minister plan to carry out a thorough examination of her language policy, in order to bring it more in line with what the critical situation of francophones outside Quebec requires?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I have already, through my cabinet colleagues, carried out an examination of all of our current funding for minority languages.

[An hon. member]

Send them another cheque.

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Hamilton East, ON]

I find it sad that the Reform is saying “Send them another cheque”. The ability to speak French is not dependent on a cheque, but on the desire of each and every Canadian, and the language has survived for 100 years. Now that we have the institutions, we must continue with them, we must work together within a united Canada to build them. We are well placed to build up French throughout the country.

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

The aim of federal language policy is to allow francophone groups in Canada to live in French. Today the minister is gloating over data on bilingualism, but she remains blind to the increasing problems faced by francophones.

Why does the Minister of Canadian Heritage not consult her counterparts in essentially English provinces to find out how Canada could really allow those francophones to live in French?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I do and I did so in fact last month.

A meeting of the ministers of the Francophonie was held, unfortunately the Quebec minister decided not to attend.

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since 1971 the Canadian rate of assimilation has increased from 27% to 37%.

In the minister's region of Hamilton, the rate of anglicization was 68% in 1996.

Does the minister realize the message she is sending by doing nothing is that things are done in English in Canada?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I invite the hon. member to visit my riding and meet people working in Notre-Dame school, in the Georges-P. Vanier school or at a francophone chamber of commerce.

Does he want to come or does he prefer to close his eyes, as did his minister of the Francophonie, who has no interest in francophones outside Quebec, except when it is to his political advantage?

Auditor General's Report

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the industry minister.

The banks have spent millions to plant one question. Can a bank change? It turns out the question should be can a bank count. The federal government, through small business loans, funnelled $6 billion in risk free loan business to the banks. The government claims to get 37 jobs for every $1 million lent because that is what the banks tell it. The auditor general has revealed that the actual count is a paltry seven jobs per $1 million.

Will the minister end this risk free ride for Mr. Banker and ensure—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Industry.

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, not only does the leader of the NDP profoundly misunderstand the program. She does not recognize the fact that the Small Business Loans Act is currently helping 30,000 small businesses in Canada acquire access to capital, one of the fundamental concerns the small business community has brought to our attention.

Day after day the small business community is creating the very kinds of jobs the leader of the NDP claims to want. Why does she not wake up and realize that this is a program that works?

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, we are talking about a free ride for the banks, not small business.

The auditor general found that the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency is mathematically challenged as well. ACOA apparently cannot count how many jobs it has created and maintained either. Instead it has fun with figures by assuming incredibly that each job lasts 10 years.

Will the minister responsible for ACOA stop boasting about assumed jobs and start working with Atlantic Canadians to set targets and achieve targets for an increase in real desperately needed jobs.

[Fred Mifflin, Liberal, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency)]

Mr. Speaker, ACOA is very pleased to note that in his latest report the auditor general explicitly acknowledges the progress that has been made by the agency. I am delighted to be able to stand behind that.

Notwithstanding the auditor general has made some observations. I am delighted to be able to take these observations under advisement and to implement new procedures in ACOA to make sure that we will be more effective than ever.

The Environment

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it has now been 24 hours since the government has announced its position relative to the conference in Kyoto. I want to repeat the question I asked yesterday. Can the government inform the House of Commons today which provincial or territorial governments officially support the position announced 24 hours ago by the Government of Canada?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said before, this government has gone through a long series of dialogue with all of our partners in this country, including the provinces and territories.

When we met in Regina, the provincial and territorial minister counterparts said that they recognize Canada needed flexibility when we went to Kyoto, that as a member of the international community we had to negotiate a convention and that it was in everybody's best interest in Canada that we are at the table and that we have a successful agreement in Kyoto.

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to hear from the minister that she is in favour of dialogue because I would like to encourage some dialogue between her and her colleague from natural resources today, and I will ask the Prime Minister to help them dialogue.

She stated in a radio interview this morning that Canada's commitment in Kyoto would be legally binding and in a direct contradiction her colleague from natural resources said “When our Canadian implementation plan is sufficiently mature, we will turn the page to formal ratification in Kyoto”.

Can the Prime Minister tell us which of the ministers actually has the Government of Canada's position?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member I think misunderstands the legal process that is followed here.

First of all, the parties have to arrive at a consensus in Kyoto about the commitments to which they are prepared to make legal obligations. Then there is the signature process. Then there is a ratification process. Then there is a coming into force process.

So what the Minister of the Environment has said and what I have said are completely consistent. The hon. gentleman just does not understand the process.

Justice

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

Yesterday in Saskatchewan the judge bypassed the law of Parliament saying in the Latimer case that Canada's murder laws are all wrong. The situation begs some signal of intent from the justice minister. Does the Criminal Code have meaning or do judges just select terms to their liking?

What legislative action is the minister contemplating in view of what the judge has done to the Criminal Code in his Latimer decision?