Debates of Dec. 8th, 1997

Employment Insurance

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, under the pretence of fighting poverty, the federal government is trying to get involved once again in areas of provincial jurisdiction. But let us talk about unemployment insurance, which comes under federal jurisdiction.

Will the Minister of Human Resources Development recognize that the reason there are way too many Canadian children living in poverty is that many parents are no longer eligible for unemployment insurance following the minister's cuts to the program?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the issue of poverty must be tackled by all levels of government. It should not be strictly a matter of provincial jurisdiction, as the hon. member claims.

As for employment insurance, our government did what it had to do by adjusting a system which was detrimental to a large number of workers, and which had to better reflect modern labour market conditions. As you know, our legislation provides for a follow-up report on the impact of the reform. This report should be submitted by the end of the month, or in January.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when the Liberals took office in 1993, 65% of the unemployed were collecting unemployment insurance benefits. Now, the proportion has dropped to 41%.

Does the minister realize that, had he not made these cuts, at least 335,000 unemployed workers who are currently excluded would be eligible for unemployment insurance? Do your job!

[The Speaker]

Questions must always be directed to the Chair. The Minister of Human Resources Development.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I want to tell the hon. member for Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques that his predecessor, Maurice Duplessis, was opposed to unemployment insurance and felt we had no business in this area. Such were the orthodox and dogmatic ideologies of those people.

I looked at the employment insurance figures.

I also note that, in recent years, unemployment has dropped from 11.4% to 9%. This is how we measure the system's efficiency.

I can also tell you that we are closely monitoring our bold and modern reform. We will talk again about all this in January.

Justice

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals' legal loophole called conditional sentencing has allowed convicted rapists and other violent offenders to walk straight out of court and not serve a day in jail. We asked the justice minister if she would close the loophole in the law and she has refused. Now the B.C. attorney general is making the same demand, citing over 900 cases in his province where this legal loophole has been applicable.

Will the justice minister close this legal loophole and ensure convicted rapists and other serious violent offenders are jailed and not allowed to walk free?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows full well that it was never the intent of the conditional sentencing provisions introduced by my predecessor to apply to violent offenders or those guilty of sexual assault.

My provincial colleagues and I had the opportunity to discuss this issue on Thursday and Friday in Montreal. We have all agreed that we will continue to monitor the use of conditional sentences very closely.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, obviously the justice minister is unconcerned about innocent men, women and children who are being victimized by these people and there is no deterrent whatsoever in the law. In fact, a briefing note from the minister's own office indicates that not only are the conditional sentences not being monitored but also there is no offence for a breach, which is unacceptable.

We ask the justice minister one more time. Will she amend this loophole in the law and do something about this dangerous piece of legislation and protect the innocent people of this country from these dangerous offenders?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me say again that my provincial colleagues and I had the opportunity to discuss this issue in Montreal last week. We have agreed in principle that conditional sentencing is working well. However, we have decided to monitor the use of conditional sentences very closely. I want to reassure the hon. member here this afternoon that if it becomes necessary to amend the provisions, I will do so.

Employment Insurance

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when the Minister of Human Resources Development makes cuts that deny 335,000 individuals EI benefits, he is plunging many children into poverty.

Instead of singing us his usual tune, could he not, with Christmas approaching, show a little more compassion towards poor children by making it easier for their parents to qualify for EI?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot understand why members of the Bloc Quebecois are objecting to what we are doing to help low-income families with children.

I hope that Quebeckers are paying attention today, because these people are not promoting the interests of poor Quebeckers in the country right now.

I am astounded that this question comes to me from a female MP. If anyone needs the system to be improved, it is women working part time. We have changed the system from one based on weeks to one based on hours in order to help women working part time, who are now covered by the system.

Justice

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Oak Ridges, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians would be shocked to learn that someone could be arrested in a province and be released even when there is an outstanding warrant in another province for a crime such as armed robbery. This is referred to as non-returnable warrants.

My question is for the solicitor general. What steps is he taking in co-operation with other jurisdictions to ensure that offenders arrested in one province are returned to another province where there is an outstanding warrant for their arrest?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the member's question underlines the need for governments to work together. That is why this government has taken a number of actions, including our statement on organized crime.

We spent two days last week in Montreal with colleagues dealing with these very issues. Under the Criminal Code—

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, I am having difficulty, as I know many of you are, hearing the answer. I would ask that you please keep it down.

I am returning to the solicitor general.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, that is the reason why the governments are working together. Under the Criminal Code you can exercise a warrant anywhere in the country. The final decision is left to the provinces. That is the reason why the federal government and the provinces have to work together.

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on September 7 Canadians learned that our parole system failed us once again.

Cecilia and Tammy Grono were murdered in my home town of Summerland, B.C. The prime suspect is Kevin Machell. He failed to report to his half-way house while on parole and Corrections Canada officials failed to report his disappearance for 24 hours. That month the solicitor general stated that an investigation would be conducted and a report would be filed.

The solicitor general has had three months. Where is the report and why did the parole system fail?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question.

The report is imminent.

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that is little comfort for the pre-school children of Tammy Grono. This parole system has failed Canadians and this minister continues to defend it.

It failed when Tammy Grono informed Corrections Canada of death threats made by Kevin Machell. It failed when there was a restraining order against Kevin Machell. It failed when Tammy Grono wrote to Corrections Canada asking to be informed of a change in status of Kevin Machell.

The minister's parole system favours the criminal. Canadians want a system that favours victims and law abiding citizens. When is this minister going to dump the current system?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I am equally committed to the safety of Canadians. That is why when there are incidents of this kind they are thoroughly investigated and changes are made to the processes in the interest of the safety of Canadians.

Fisheries

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of 40,000 Canadians in Atlantic Canada and Quebec, we would like to thank the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans for his comments last Friday regarding the TAGS program. I quote “We felt it was important to support these people, help these people, and we will continue to do so”.

My question for the minister is now that he has committed the government to a continuation of the TAGS program, will he now tell us in this House the details of the government's new objective?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is confused about the situation.

This government has always supported individuals who, through no fault of their own, find themselves in the type of difficulty that the Atlantic fisheries found themselves in some years ago.

We are now studying how to continue to assist those people. To suggest that a particular individual program will continue, as he has, is simply wrong.

Pay Equity

[Angela Vautour, NDP, Beauséjour—Petitcodiac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, today workers across this country have again been disappointed by the government with no agreement on pay equity. This government has already admitted that it owes $1.3 billion in pay equity to over 150,000 workers, mainly women.

Today Treasury Board says it will no longer negotiate with PSAC. Will this government pay the $1.3 billion it has admitted it owes as a downpayment and continue to negotiate the balance and stop this injustice between men and women?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, yes, today I made a statement that we have now evaluated the counter-offer which was made by the Public Service Alliance of Canada. They had previously indicated that their claim was $2 billion and they had indicated that they wanted to negotiate.

The valuation indicates that the counter-offer which was offered by PSAC is equivalent not to $2 billion, not to $3 billion, not $4 billion but $5.3 billion dollars. This is a figure that is so clearly out of the realistic proportion that it indicates that the syndicate is acting in bad faith.

National Defence

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister of defence.

In 1994, a Sea King flying over my city of Saint John tragically crashed and killed two crew members.

The families of the military have been in touch with me since 1994 looking for new helicopters. The aging Sea Kings were grounded last week for repairs. They are supposed to be fixed up for the next four or five years.

My question to the minister is for the safety of our military and for the comfort of their families, when will this government stop playing political games and announce new helicopters?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, crashes of any aircraft are most unfortunate. There are a number of reasons why they occur, not just the age of an aircraft but because of mechanical failures or human error.

We do not put these Sea Kings or any other helicopters or any other aircraft in the air unless they are safe to operate. We recently grounded our Sea Kings so that we could check them out very thoroughly. We checked them out and they are now back in the air.

We know they need replacing in a few years because they are getting old and we are working to do that.