House of Commons Hansard #124 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was harmonization.

Topics

Excise Tax ActGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Bloc

Maurice Bernier Bloc Mégantic—Compton—Stanstead, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to take part in this debate, which has not surprisingly attracted a great deal of interest. I would first like to address a very important aspect of wanting to bring in the sort of reform being proposed in Bill C-70, the bill dealing with the GST. I want to talk about the confidence the public must have in our institutions if the decisions the government takes are to become reality.

As I have said, this element of trust is a basic principle in many of our institutions, particularly in the area of taxation. We know that it is a basic principle of tax law that a citizen must file his tax return, and it is presumed that this return is accurate until proven otherwise.

The same is true in the justice system. A person is considered innocent until proven guilty. This principle also applies here in the House, where our rules of procedure prevent us from calling a colleague a liar, and require us to presume, particularly during oral question period, that when a minister gives a reply, he is telling the truth.

Clearly, this element of trust is a fundamental part of our institutions. Unfortunately, when it comes to this extremely important bill, the element of trust is missing. It is missing, and this will have enormous consequences, because members of the public, who are watching us and who must suffer the terrible effects of this bill, will quite rightly rebel, because they do not have confidence in our institutions or in the elected officials who must make decisions.

They have many reasons for expressing this lack of trust. I will give a few well known examples still in the public eye right now. There is the Airbus affair, which has shown us the Minister of Justice tangled up in something that looks more like a settling of political accounts than a real case that supposedly needed clarification.

The reputation of former Prime Minister Mulroney was attacked. The current Prime Minister and Minister of Justice got so deep into trouble that, on the advice of their own solicitors, they eventually made amends and apologized. After dickering for months and wasting millions of taxpayers' dollars in legal fees, they ended up apologizing, saying that a mistake had been made in the Airbus affair and that former Prime Minister Mulroney not only had done nothing wrong but that his conduct should never have been called into question.

The same thing is happening in the tainted blood scandal, with the Krever commission. Documents were destroyed. Obviously, the commission can no longer have access to these documents and use them to make recommendations in its upcoming report.

The same thing is also happening with the Somalia inquiry. The defence minister has just put an end to the mandate of the Létourneau commission, in a highhanded way, in my opinion. He has just decided that the hearings would have to be completed by the end of March and that the commission would have to submit its report by the end of June. However, several witnesses have yet to be heard, and the public is convinced that more remains unknown than known.

These examples show the impact of trust in our institutions, or the lack of it. This is why Canadians no longer believe in their representatives and, more often than not, are cynical about the electoral and political processes. This threatens the future of our institutions.

Bill C-70 is a case in point. During the last election campaign, the Prime Minister himself, the Deputy Prime Minister and all the Liberal candidates kept repeating that they would scrap the GST. Not only was the GST not scrapped, but it was maintained and, through Bill C-70, it will be made even worse. The bill establishes two tax systems: one for the maritime provinces and one for the rest of Canada. This is unbelievable.

This will destroy the confidence that is so necessary for our institutions. Mr. Speaker, you are impartial, but I am convinced that your Liberal colleagues think this is all a figment of my imagination. They think I am making these comments just because I belong to the Bloc Quebecois, the official opposition, and must therefore criticize the government. They say we are trying to destroy the Liberal government's good image every chance we get.

Be that as it may, yesterday, a Gallup poll showed that 29 per cent of Quebecers believe the Prime Minister of Canada and member for Saint-Maurice is doing a good job. Merely 29 per cent of the people in Quebec believe he is doing a good job. This means that 71 per cent believe he is not doing a good job. Therefore, the people do not have confidence in the Prime Minister and his government. In Quebec, in the upcoming election, once again, the people will express this lack of confidence in the Liberal government by re-electing members of the Bloc Quebecois.

Hopefully the Bloc Quebecois' performance will reflect the people's lack of confidence in the government expressed in this poll. I have no doubt that the people of Quebec are fully aware of the bad, unfortunate decisions made by this government, which will adversely affect our fellow citizens in their daily lives. Just

think of the unemployed, whose benefits have been cut every year since the Liberals came to office, just to reduce the deficit.

I will close by saying that, these past few years, not only did the Bloc Quebecois denounce bad decisions-and we will keep doing so for the rest of this government's mandate-but we also proposed major changes which, if implemented, would improve our tax system.

Lastly, I would like to acknowledge the outstanding work done by our colleague, the hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot, with the help of the hon. member for Anjou-Rivière-des-Prairies and the hon. member for La Prairie, so they could table a second report this week. This is unprecedented in Canadian history. I see that Liberal members agree. This is a precedent; the official opposition tabled a realistic, practical tax reform proposal.

Excise Tax ActGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

Colleagues, I am going to recognize the member for Prince George-Bulkley Valley. You, sir, will have the floor when we return after question period. Rather than interrupt your no doubt formidable speech, with your permission I will go to statements by members.

The Late Charles MunroStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

John Finlay Liberal Oxford, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to offer my condolences to the family and friends of Mr. Charles Munro of Embro who passed away on January 17.

Charlie Munro was one of Oxford county's outstanding dairy farmers. He represented and fought for the farmers of Oxford and Canada as a member of local, national and international farm groups.

Charlie served as president of both the Ontario and Canadian Federations of Agriculture. From 1972 to 1974 he served as president of the International Federation of Agriculture in Paris, France. Charlie was also a recipient of the Canada Centennial Medal and was inducted into the Ontario Agricultural Hall of Fame in 1994.

No matter where Charlie's service took him, he always had the people of Oxford in his thoughts and in his heart. Oxford and Canada have lost one of their best.

Au revoir mon ami. We will remember you.

Amateur SportStatements By Members

February 6th, 1997 / 1:55 p.m.

Bloc

Maurice Dumas Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to pay tribute to the excellence of two young athletes from the riding of Argenteuil-Papineau.

Émilie Cousineau and Philip Devey, both from Lachute, have distinguished themselves in sports. The hope of the Quebec women's downhill ski team, Émilie finished first in the slalom at the Québec-Kandahar competition recently held at Mont-Tremblant.

In baseball, Philip Devey was named Quebec's pitcher of the year at the 1996 Meritas gala. He has landed the spot of fifth starter in the lineup on Southwestern Louisiana University's baseball team next season.

All young athletes in Quebec and in Canada deserve our praise. We must encourage and support them so that they can attain their goals and realize their dreams. It is with this in mind that I wish the best of success to the two young athletes from Argenteuil-Papineau, Émilie Cousineau and Philip Devey.

Health CareStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Keith Martin Reform Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Mr. Speaker, hurt number one on Liberal health care. Let us look at one British Columbia hospital's experience with the Liberals' version of publicly funded health care.

It is February 4 and as usual there are no beds available in the hospital. Eight out of 13 emergency room bays are occupied by seriously injured people. The hospital's response: cut 10 more beds because there is no funding.

There are 12 male and female patients in one room separated just by sheets with one bathroom. There is no funding for staff. A quadriplegic has to be turned, cannot be, develops bed sores, becomes septic and dies.

A sixty-year old patient has a heart attack and needs urgent transfer to Vancouver. There are no beds because there is no money and the patient dies.

A young woman needs urgent dialysis. There is no funding for any staff, the patient has a cardiac arrest and almost dies.

This is the Liberal government's version of publicly funded, accessible health care. Shame on this government for deceiving the Canadian public and playing political football with the health care of Canadians.

Centres Of ExcellenceStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Andrew Telegdi Liberal Waterloo, ON

Mr. Speaker, the Centres of Excellence program allows university, government and private researchers to join forces on cutting edge technology projects.

Networks of Centres of Excellence have won an international reputation for doing high quality research which is relevant to private and public sector activities in Canada and around the world. The networks have been praised in Europe and the United States as areas in which Canada has excelled by getting university researchers to collaborate with each other and with industry.

The Centres of Excellence have contributed to the economic growth of the country by the rapid transfer of technology, the establishment of many new companies and the training of a highly skilled workforce.

By working together to provide the transfer of knowledge, the universities, governments and the private sector have made a greater impact than individual researchers would have done alone.

The continuation of the Networks of Centres of Excellence program is essential for Canada to compete on the global scene.

Job CreationStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Gurbax Malhi Liberal Bramalea—Gore—Malton, ON

Mr. Speaker, one of Canada's major banks recently announced a great new way to encourage job creation.

CIBC has agreed to lend money to small businesses at reduced interest rates if they promise to create jobs. A business that borrows the maximum of $100,000 will save $3,000 in the first year.

The bank will advance loans at one percentage point below prime to small firms that promise to use the money to expand and create at least one full time job or three part time jobs in the first year of the loan.

Since the major concern of all Canadians is job creation, I want the federal government to do everything it can to ensure all banks make their loans more accessible and affordable to the small business sector.

Toyota Motor Manufacturing CanadaStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Janko Peric Liberal Cambridge, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to advise the House that today Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada announced plans to produce a new two door coupe at its facility located in my riding of Cambridge.

Production of a new Toyota coupe is expected to create 1,000 new jobs and represents an additional investment of $400 million in operations at the Cambridge plant.

Toyota's decision to produce 50,000 new cars a year reveals the high level of confidence in the workers of Cambridge and the community as a whole.

I would also like to mention that the federal government is playing a role in this good news announcement from Toyota with its contribution of $1 million for job training.

FisheriesStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Reform

Jack Frazer Reform Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, government intervened to enable Canadian Airline employees to vote on issues affecting their future but now denies Pacific fishermen the same right on licence stacking.

In January, when the minister lifted the moratorium on licence stacking, he stacked the deck to favour large fishery operations with deep pockets. They can afford to buy the additional licences, assuring themselves the lion's share of the catch.

At the same time, the minister denied small fishermen and communities their right to stay in business and keep their jobs.

By delaying the vote on stacking until November, the minister assures himself an affirmative response because only those who buy into this expensive plan will be eligible to vote.

Reducing the size of the fleet does not address the survival of the salmon because the smaller fleet still has more catch capacity than the resource can withstand.

There are avenues readily available and easily instituted to limit the efficiency of the fleet, spread the wealth and protect the resource but the minister ignores this option.

So much for the Liberal promise of jobs, jobs, jobs.

Bristol AerospaceStatements By Members

2 p.m.

NDP

Bill Blaikie NDP Winnipeg—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, workers at Bristol Aerospace in Winnipeg have called on all three levels of government to form a working group to monitor the sale of Bristol Aerospace and to make sure that the sale is conducted in the best interest of the city of Winnipeg and of the workers at Bristol Aerospace.

They have approached all three levels of government and have some measure of agreement from all three levels of government to at least participate in a preliminary process. But they are at a point now where they have not heard back from the people on the federal

side as to when a meeting might be held, and they are very anxious that this meeting be held.

Therefore I am on my feet today to urge the Liberals, whoever is responsible for making sure this happens, to convene a meeting of that working group as soon as possible so we can make sure this sale transpires in the interests of the city of Winnipeg and of the workers. I want to make sure we do not have another instance of people losing their jobs in Winnipeg as we have had over the last few weeks where plant after plant seems to be shutting down as a result of the combined policies of the Liberal federal government and the Conservative provincial government.

Here is an opportunity to do something and I hope the Liberals will soon act to make this working group a reality.

Tribute To Naïm KattanStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Bloc

Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Bloc Laval Centre, QC

Mr. Speaker, Naïm Kattan, a Quebec essayist and novelist, recently won the Prix de la culture séfarade. Born in Baghdad in 1928, he emigrated to Quebec in 1954, after studying literature at the Sorbonne. Since then, he has played a role in the cultural life of Quebec as a critic for Le Devoir and La Presse , and for the periodicals Liberté and Voix et Images .

In 1971, he won the Prix France-Canada with his first essay, Le réel et le théâtral . He has published three novels, Adieu Babylone , Les fruits arrachés and La fiancée promise .

He was a researcher for the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism and has a number of publications to his credit: Juifs et Canadiens , Écrivain des Amériques , and Les Juifs et la communauté française .

Quebec's culture has been enriched by Naïm Kattan's very special voice, a wonderful blend of the Jewish, Arab and Christian civilizations. It is with pride that the Bloc Quebecois pays tribute to him today.

The Macauley BoysStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Sue Barnes Liberal London West, ON

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure today to recognize the accomplishments of four of my young constituents in London West. Last Wednesday the rhythm and blues group The MacAuley Boys were nominated for a 1997 Juno Award.

Through hard work and their great amount of talent the four brothers, Gary, George, Mark and Randy, have released two albums since 1995 and they have been featured recently on the Much Music dance show "Electric Circus". Their latest album, "In Another Lifetime", is receiving national play and distribution and airplay in the United States. The group has been invited to perform at the half-time show in the final home game of the Toronto Raptors.

A special nod should go to The MacAuley Boys' parents, Rita and Winston, who have supported and encouraged their sons' very special talent. Whatever the results of the Juno awards, London and all Canadians will be very proud of The MacAuley boys. We wish them well with their future. Bravo.

Canadian Broadcasting CompanyStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Mr. Speaker, as we approach budget day, I take this opportunity to express my support for strengthening the role of the CBC. Many of Prince Edward Island's citizens have expressed their concerns to me about the future of public broadcasting, both radio and television.

I recognize that the CBC has to share in meeting deficit targets. I believe it has done that and that no further cuts are necessary. In P.E.I. CBC is our mainstay for local news, including coverage of high profile events such as political conventions.

Ratings show that Islanders per capita watch local CBC news at a higher percentage than any other station in Canada. Morning radio programs focus the debate and provide critical analysis relevant to Islanders. On the cultural side, CBC has given aspiring local artists their start in the achievement of artistic careers.

The future of the CBC must be ensured.

Job CreationStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Nick Discepola Liberal Vaudreuil, QC

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Human Resources Development announced a major grant to a company in Sorel. The firm, Hebco International, a specialist in the environmental sector, has just received close to $1.3 million to help it set up a research centre and an assembly plant.

Thus, one hundred and twenty-nine direct jobs, plus numerous indirect ones, will be created in the Sorel region because of this Government of Canada funding, which comes from the transitional job fund created by our government.

Ninety-four million dollars from this fund have already gone to help fund Quebec projects.

The Canadian government is pleased to be associated with this project, which contributes to the creation of lasting employment in the greater Montreal region, a region which merits the attention of all governments.

Team CanadaStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Guay Bloc Laurentides, QC

Mr. Speaker, since the Prime Minister's return from Asia, the Liberals cannot stop congratulating themselves on the success of this mission and attempting to link it with Canadian unity.

Yet the success of this economic mission cannot be attributed solely to federal action. The Quebec mission, headed by Premier Bouchard, made it possible to bolster the Quebec presence in South Korea, the Philippines and Thailand.

If our governments were successful in showcasing our know how in Asia, this was because of the genius of the entrepreneurs of Quebec and of Canada, and the quality of their goods and services. When the Canadian and Quebec governments pool their efforts in the economic area, success is assured. That is what partnership is all about.

For Mike Harris, the sovereignist project of the Quebec government does not mean the end of foreign investment. He stated, and I quote: "As far as Ontario is concerned, this is not an obstacle". Partnership is definitely an idea that is taking hold.

The SenateStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Reform

Bill Gilmour Reform Comox—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, on March 1 British Columbia Senator Len Marchand will step down, leaving a vacant seat in the Senate.

To fill that seat, British Columbians want to choose a senator who will represent provincial concerns and will serve British Columbians as opposed to just another Liberal hack appointed by the Prime Minister whose only loyalty is to the Liberal Party.

B.C. already has a law on the books which allows for British Columbians to elect their next senator. Before the last election, the current Prime Minister promised that the Liberal Party would establish an elected Senate within two years of its forming government.

Yet in the last three years, the Prime Minister has appointed more political hacks to the Upper House than Mulroney did in nine years in Parliament. So much for Liberal integrity.

Now is the time for the Prime Minister to put the democratic rights of the people ahead of the political interests of their party and allow British Columbians to elect their next senator.

International Development WeekStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Beryl Gaffney Liberal Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, this is international development week. It brings together a wide range of partners, co-operatives and corporations, non-governmental organizations, universities and colleges and Canadian international development agencies.

Participants come from all walks of life and ethnic backgrounds. I want to acknowledge three constituents from the Nepean riding who have recently volunteered overseas with CESO: Roy Walker in Russia; Jivan Shah in Lima, Peru; and Tadeusz Cienski in Lubin, Poland.

By sharing their expertise with disadvantaged economies, they epitomize the values and ideals we celebrate during international development week.

This week is a week when Canadians come together and renew commitment to a common future, one that is shared with the rest of the world.

The need for international co-operation has never been greater. Messrs. Walker, Shah and Cienski have proven that all races and cultures, joined by common cause, can work together in peace.

Goods And Services TaxStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Reform

Monte Solberg Reform Medicine Hat, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to bring to the attention of the House the unfair and discriminatory manner in which the GST is applied to physicians and private ambulance services in this country.

Unlike small business people and self-employed Canadians, doctors and ambulance service providers are not allowed to claim GST input credits for necessary medical supplies they purchase to provide urgent and quality health care.

This discriminatory and unjust practice came into being with the GST itself and both the previous Tory and the present Liberal governments have refused to address this legitimate concern.

In fact, Liberal members of the finance committee defeated a Reform amendment proposed to correct this wrong during examination of the GST harmonization bill.

In defeating this motion, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance suggested to his colleagues who were sympathetic to the longstanding grievance that their concerns should be addressed in the provincial fee schedule for their services. This is a shameful abdication of federal responsibility.

TaxationOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, this is pre-budget time, of course, and I imagine the Minister of Finance is working very hard on his budget. When he read the documents the Bloc contributed to the process, he must have realized that the Canadian tax system needed reform. Unfortunately, the minister has never been very forthcoming about tax reform. He does not seem interested.

Today, as budget day draws nearer, I want to ask him and I have not yet given up on convincing him, if he agrees that the Canadian personal and corporate tax system needs a thorough review, and whether he intends to proceed accordingly in his next budget?

TaxationOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard Québec

Liberal

Paul Martin LiberalMinister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, the whole tax system must be modernized, because the economy evolves, because the ability of taxpayers to consider their financial situation evolves, because of the way corporations are able to find tax havens, or simply because of the globalization of our economy.

That is why, since we came to power, we proceeded with thorough reforms as each budget was brought down, and we certainly intend to keep modernizing our tax system.

TaxationOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, all socio-economic partners agree it is important for the government not only to modernize the tax system but also to bring about thorough changes that will make it fairer, more equitable, more productive and will help stimulate the economy.

In November we tabled proposals suggesting that the minister eliminate tax spending on companies that are not productive. In the process, the government would recover $3 billion and use the money to stimulate job creation by introducing appropriate fiscal measures that are attractive and provide an incentive for business.

Does the minister intend to include this suggestion in his next budget?

TaxationOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard Québec

Liberal

Paul Martin LiberalMinister of Finance

Absolutely, Mr. Speaker. I have already said that I read the Bloc Quebecois report on corporations with great interest.

I think the federal government's situation was accurately described by Quebec's Minister of Finance, Bernard Landry. In referring to his own situation, he was actually answering the Bloc's question, and I quote what he said: "Regarding the tax burdens on corporations", because that is what the Leader of the Opposition referred to, "these tend to diminish the yield on their investments. Companies lose the incentive to invest, which means fewer jobs. Furthermore, as the tax burden in Quebec increases, foreign companies are less likely to invest here and create jobs. It is clear that higher tax levels kill jobs".

That is what Bernard Landry had to say, and I think the Quebec Minister of Finance is right.

TaxationOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, this is rather frustrating. The Minister of Finance did not understand the question at all.

We are not asking the Minister of Finance to increase the tax burden on corporations. This is about eliminating unproductive fiscal spending deductions that do not stimulate job creation and instead make these deductions contingent on the number of jobs created.

The Bloc Quebecois never asked the government to increase the taxes of these corporations. We simply asked the government to redirect its tax spending. The minister does not understand tax reform. That is the problem. And he is the Minister of Finance. I do not have much of a problem with the federal tax system, because pretty soon we will no longer be affected by it.

I wish the Minister of Finance would realize that by refusing to make thorough changes in the federal tax system, he is also preventing such changes from taking place in the provinces, because the two are closely related. He takes the lead, so he should know.

TaxationOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard Québec

Liberal

Paul Martin LiberalMinister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, first of all, we are always prepared to co-operate with the provinces. In fact, we have taken the lead in many areas, and Quebec has followed suit.

The Leader of the Opposition is asking us what we have done. I will tell you what we have done. We put in place new rules for declaring foreign assets if the value of these assets exceeds a certain amount. We added a temporary surtax on banks. We scrapped a tax return for businesses that are not incorporated. I could go on. As I said, we have done a great deal and we intend to continue.

TaxationOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Bloc

Yvan Loubier Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance was to table his three pages. We are still

waiting for him to table them in the House. For his three pages, we could give him three hundred pages of analyses of corporate and individual taxes.

The government often says that job creation is its primary goal. The Minister of Finance has said that "every effort of government, including the tax system, must be directed toward that end".

My question is for the Minister of Finance. If the Minister of Finance thinks that taxes can play a determining role in creating jobs, would it not make sense to immediately implement the Bloc Quebecois' suggestion of creating an employment RRSP program?