Debates of March 5th, 1997

Regional Development

[Yves Rocheleau, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Secretary of State for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec.

For over a year now, the federal government has refused to renew the framework agreement on regional economic development with Quebec. In the meantime, sectoral agreements have expired, and the regions of Quebec are now suffering as a result.

Is the federal government prepared now to show its good intentions and conclude agreements on regional development with Quebec, as it did recently in ratifying agreements with New Brunswick and Nova Scotia?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Secretary of State (Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, my predecessor at the Federal Office of Regional Development wrote on two or three occasions to the Government of Quebec precisely to conclude a harmonization agreement on intervention in regional development in the province.

Unfortunately, at the time, the two or three attempts were declined by the Government of Quebec, which was not interested in reaching a harmonization agreement. This was in the period before the referendum, and the provincial government certainly did not want to show that the federal system worked well.

What we did then was to set up a new program under which the Federal Office of Regional Development intervenes where it can do the most within its areas of jurisdiction.

We are now prepared to go ahead and discuss harmonization with the Province of Quebec, even if harmonization is a fact, because we were farsighted and wanted to look after the public's interest.

[Yves Rocheleau, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know if that is profitable federalism, effective federalism, but when the Liberals formed the government in 1993, nearly two thirds of the money spent by the federal government in Quebec on regional development passed through the economic and regional development agreement. Today, three years later, it is less than a third. The federal government prefers to operate directly, over the heads of Quebec and the regions.

Is the Secretary of State prepared to put a stop immediately to his circuitous strategies and to negotiate in good faith with Quebec in the best interest of the regions of Quebec?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Secretary of State (Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, as regards the investment of money in regional development, the funds invested in Quebec compare favourably with those invested in all the other regions of Canada.

What upsets the members of the opposition is that, because they refused a year and a half ago to sign a harmonization agreement with the Government of Canada, we set up a regional development structure, which suits the public and meets their needs. There are 13 regional offices within the federal office, and there are 55 community futures development corporations. Why are they so upset that we have understood and that the public is now beginning to understand? Because even if the Government of Quebec is not interested in it, the process of harmonization is being carried out by the organizations themselves locally. That is what profitable federalism is all about.

National Defence

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party has received some interesting documents and I would be prepared to table them.

[An hon. member]

They finally got some mail after three and a half years.

[The Speaker]

I would prefer if we did not wave papers around.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I apologize. I was just doing what some of the ministers do.

The document I have proves the Prime Minister's friend and political appointee, Bob Fowler, broke the Privacy Act when he improperly issued documents in an attempt to destroy the reputation of Colonel Michel Drapeau. Unbelievably he did this to try to prevent Colonel Drapeau from legally submitting access to information requests at the Department of National Defence.

Will the Prime Minister finally hold Mr. Fowler accountable for his actions and recall him immediately to Ottawa?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman has indicated that he is prepared to make the documents to which he refers available to members of the House.

We will be very pleased to look at them and to consider what is actually in them, because I have learned from experience that what they wave in the House and refer to is often quite different from what we find if they get around to tabling anything.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my goodness it is hard to believe that minister about waving documents around when he fails even to put them up the same day he waves them.

Submitting information requests is the legal right of every Canadian but Colonel Drapeau got too close to the truth. That is when Mr. Fowler decided to take him down. Mr. Fowler even sent his illegal poison pen letter about Colonel Drapeau to CSIS, the Department of Justice, and the Department of National Revenue. He broke the Privacy Act by issuing this illegal letter and that is unacceptable.

How could the government justify a person like this representing Canada to the international community at the UN?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has made a number of comments in his question including illegal poison pen letters.

The hon. member is well aware of the rules of the House. Making allegations that people have committed illegal acts is something members who are often considered honourable can do in the House. I have again learned from experience. They have great reluctance expressing those kind of views outside where the protection of the House does not prevail.

Food Inspection

[Jean-Guy Chrétien, Bloc, Frontenac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture.

Agriculture Canada recently notified the meat and poultry industry, as well as the processed fruit and vegetable industry, of its intention of doing away with the mandatory registration and approval of labels and recipes for these products.

Since the industry is prepared to pay a fair and equitable share of the costs to continue to have access to the services his department has been providing since 1959, will the minister maintain these services and not eliminate them anytime soon?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. gentleman knows, under the business alignment plan of our food production and protection branch we are pursuing a five-part approach to the issue of cost recovery and user fees. The notion of imposing a user fee is the last of the options after we have explored and exhausted the four previous alternatives.

The hon. gentleman makes an interesting suggestion with respect to certain fees for certain services. Our department has always been willing to be flexible and reasonable in considering these suggestions. I will examine the proposal the hon. gentleman makes to see if it is viable.

[Jean-Guy Chrétien, Bloc, Frontenac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I remind the Minister of Agriculture that the industry is prepared to pay a fair price for the services currently provided.

Does the minister recognize that he is off beam with this recommendation to abolish these services in the short term, when a study commissioned by his own department concluded that it would result in reduced compliance with the standards respecting labelling and recipes for the products in question and, in addition, may jeopardize the health of our fellow citizens, and of young people in particular?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, let me assure the House, the hon. gentleman and all Canadians that as we work our way through any changes that pertain to the Canadian food inspection system the health and safety of Canadians is, has always been and will always be the number one priority.

Housing

[Tony Ianno, Liberal, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister responsible for housing.

Social housing is important to thousands of Canadians. In Ontario the Harris government plans to pass responsibility for housing down to the municipalities. This has left many families living with fear and insecurity.

What assurance could the minister give residents of social housing in Ontario that the Government of Canada will not abandon them and that they will continue to have the access to affordable homes they deserve? Will the minister put their fears to rest?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I had the honour of signing the first agreement with one of the provinces on the transfer of the administration of social housing. I invite everyone to look very closely at the agreement and to recognize there are six principles and a very strict accountability framework.

We want to have the provinces do more with the money we spend by combining their administration with ours.

As for Ontario, I have written to the minister responsible advising him that the onus is on the province to show us how its proposed plan would fit with these principles and with our accountability framework. If it does not fit we will not transfer it.

Citizenship And Immigration

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, less than two weeks ago when the government tabled its part III estimates, the Department of Citizenship and Immigration indicated that it would be spending $40 million less than last year.

However efforts of fiscal responsibility appear to have only a two-week life span with the government as the minister is now requesting an additional $88 million in the supplementary estimates.

Could the minister explain to the House why she has increased her department's spending by more than 15 per cent in less than two weeks?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the department is responsible for the settlement of immigrants as they come to this country.

For some time there have been a great deal of discussions back and forth with the provinces with respect to settlement programs. That is where the majority of the increase has been coming from with respect to provincial allocations on settlement programs.

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this discussion has been going on for a number of years. While this pre-election goodie is nothing more than an effort by the government to buy its re-election with taxpayers' money it still does not treat the provinces equally.

For example, Quebec receives $3,294 per immigrant from the government for settlement. Even with a $20 million increase in federal spending British Columbia will only receive $1,035 per immigrant.

If the minister is not prepared to fund all the provinces equally, is she at least prepared to give B.C., Ontario and Alberta the same guarantees found in the Canada-Quebec accord?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has been requesting this kind of assistance for quite some time. There have been all kinds of requests.

All provinces have settlement programs. If the hon. member is suggesting we should not be increasing the settlement program to halt immigrants who come to this country to settle that is not acceptable.

The government is basically acceding to the demands of the provinces over the last several years. This is a positive thing for immigrants. The programs are needed and they will be implemented.

Crab Fishing

[René Canuel, Bloc, Matapédia—Matane, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

Last week, the minister released the results of his most recent spring exercise in improvisation, the snow crab plan. Indeed, for the third consecutive year, the minister reduced the harvest rates allocated to Quebec fishers. In total, the minister reduced the quotas for snow crab by 928 tons, which amounts to a loss of $15 million for the industry.

In order to put a stop to the constant transfer of jobs and resources from one province to another, will the minister pledge that Quebec will get its usual share, instead of reducing its quotas as he has been doing for the last three years?

[Fred Mifflin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is talking about the most lucrative fishing industry in Atlantic Canada on the east coast.

He is talking about an industry that contains one resource and two main factions: the traditional crabbers and the non-crabbers. We are also dealing with the maritime provinces and the province of Quebec. Each year the negotiations start and go on for a long time.

Since June 19, 1996 negotiations have been ongoing with the various industries, with the various unions, with the traditional crabbers, with the non-traditional crabbers and with the provinces.

Two weeks ago there was an agreement by all parties, each side compromising to do as much as possible to come up with a crab plan that satisfied as many as possible in the case that each party had to put water in their wine.

As the plan pertains to Quebec, every accommodation was made for the province of Quebec, the province of New Brunswick, the province of Prince Edward Island and all fishermen involved to come up with the best possible plan.

Health Care

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said in the House about 45 minutes ago that his government had not cut health care.

Let me quote from the government's own document "Getting Government Right" dated February 20, 1997. On major transfers to other levels of government, the actual Canada health and social transfer for 1993-94 was $16.8 billion, down to $12.5 billion in 1997-98 and going down again next year to $11.8 billion.

In light of that irrefutable evidence, will the Prime Minister withdraw his assertion that he has not cut health care and admit that he has misled the House?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.